EFL Statement

[Owl Be Back]

8 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

Birmingham city seem to have survived the points deduction last season, so should we, IF we are found to have broken any rules.

 

It could be more severe than Birmingham's in order to make a further example and to dissuade others and considering what SWFC has done being worse. Potentially could be a deduction of points in the high teens or even more.

 

I don't like FFP, I think there are other ways sustainability of clubs could be achieved, but I knew selling the ground to the owner was dodgy so it doesn't surprise me this has happened and I blame nobody but our owner and anyone who has advised him to do this.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Owl Be Back

[thewookieisdown]

5 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

Birmingham city seem to have survived the points deduction last season, so should we, IF we are found to have broken any rules.

They do. And we should too. 

 

All the same, we are not in the same charge as Birmingham. It is a more serious charge we face. If the panel finds against us expect a bigger deduction than nine points. 

[sweetsheri]

1 minute ago, andytrig said:

Exactly, I think they'll throw the book at us. 21 point deduction and a tranfer embargo for at least 2 seasons.

Nothing would surprise me.

 

Apart from if no action was taken following investigation

[WalthamOwl]

1 hour ago, casbahowl said:

Mate it’s why this site is now held in such utter contempt by people who actually support the club.

Utterly ridiculous to still be under the guise as a Wednesday fans forum!

yet you can’t keep yourself away from the site. Odd. 

[Emerson Thome]

22 minutes ago, Groundhopping Owl said:

For whatever reason he seems to have his critics on here, but Kieran Maguire's interview with The Star is pretty good just to explain what's going on without getting lost in excessive conjecture and speculation:

 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/latest-owls-news/sheffield-wednesday-efl-misconduct-charge-what-does-it-mean-will-they-get-points-deduction-and-how-long-will-it-all-take-1019834

 

Thanks for posting this link.

 

It raised a few questions for me:

 

Quote

The second issue is the terms of the transaction. In normal circumstances – it’s the same as with a house – you don’t get the property until you pay for it. What we’ve seen though with Sheffield Wednesday is that although they sold the property to Mr Chansiri’s other company, no money changed hands and Sheffield Wednesday have in their accounts a debt of £60m owing from this other company.

 

 

That debt is repayable in seven instalments of £7.5m over an eight-year period. That is very unusual for a property transaction. You’ve got to ask – is this a genuine sale of a property, or has it been undertaken purely to improve Wednesday’s accounts for the purpose of FFP?

 

And there’s also the issue of the valuation of Hillsborough, which was bought for £60m?

KM: Mr Chansiri is effectively selling Hillsborough to himself and if he is selling the property for the purposes of falling in line with FFP, he might be willing to produce a very generous price for Hillsborough.

Reading sold the Madejski for £27m, substantially less than Hillsborough. It is smaller, but it is more modern and it is in Berkshire, where land prices there are significantly higher I would expect. West Ham’s owners sold Upton Park for £40m, and that’s in London.

 

 

Aston Villa sold Villa Park for £56m, broadly in line with Hillsborough, and Derby blew everybody out of the water with £80m for Pride Park, which has left a few people scratching their heads.

The final question is; has Hillsborough been sold for a market price, or has Hillsborough been sold for a price to sidestep Financial Fair Play?

 

It seems to be basically accepted that this practice is a way of fiddling the books. But, as the EFL's own rules have left this loophole open, and Villa and Derby have been allowed to do this ruse without any punishment, then I can't see how much of this is relevant or punishable by the EFL's own precedents....

 

e.g. When selling a property, it seems to me you are well within your rights to negotiate whatever type of repayment schedule that you want. Similarly, when selling a property, the valuation is usually the largest amount of money that you can get for it (whether overpriced or not, often people will pay over the odds if they think it will be worth more in the future).

 

Of course, this is slightly complicated when you are selling something to yourself (!), but again - I would argue that if Derby and Villa have been allowed to do this (and the £80m valuation of Pride Park is clearly taking the mick as well) then there seems to be a good case for the defence here.

 

So really, it all comes down to the question of when the sale was made and which year it should fall under in the accounts. Did Chansiri have this bright idea in time (and has he got the paperwork to prove it), or was this all cooked up many months afterwards.... I think I can hazard a guess at the answer to this, but will leave that to the lawyers and EFL to sort out.

 

[Guest wilyfox]

Forestieri's ban for this will be the biggest ever seen. 

[striker]

24 minutes ago, BowOwl said:

Any sort of financial punishment would be fair and should be aimed at Chansiri/Accountants. But as soon as they start dragging point deductions into it, the fans & the staff are the ones really getting punished, let alone the league's reputation.

The EFL don't give a throw about the fans,  ask Bolton, Bury, Macclesfield etc...

 

And, therein lies the hipocracy of FFP designed to restrict clubs from overspending, but then fining them if they do. There is no distinction between owners and the clubs as almost all clubs are loss making and propped up by owners. 

 

The issues caused in football are resultant from an outdated FFP system  which fails to take into account the inflation in fees and wages  overseen by the EFL in light of premier league failure payments. 

 

The result being the gap between the championship and premier league widening every season with a spend of £50-100m required on promotion to stand a chance of staying up.

[Nut]

4 minutes ago, andytrig said:

Exactly, I think they'll throw the book at us. 21 point deduction and a tranfer embargo for at least 2 seasons.

We havent been found guilty yet!

[billyblack]

2 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

Thanks for posting this link.

 

It raised a few questions for me:

 

 

It seems to be basically accepted that this practice is a way of fiddling the books. But, as the EFL's own rules have left this loophole open, and Villa and Derby have been allowed to do this ruse without any punishment, then I can't see how much of this is relevant or punishable by the EFL's own precedents....

 

e.g. When selling a property, it seems to me you are well within your rights to negotiate whatever type of repayment schedule that you want. Similarly, when selling a property, the valuation is usually the largest amount of money that you can get for it (whether overpriced or not, often people will pay over the odds if they think it will be worth more in the future).

 

Of course, this is slightly complicated when you are selling something to yourself (!), but again - I would argue that if Derby and Villa have been allowed to do this (and the £80m valuation of Pride Park is clearly taking the mick as well) then there seems to be a good case for the defence here.

 

So really, it all comes down to the question of when the sale was made and which year it should fall under in the accounts. Did Chansiri have this bright idea in time (and has he got the paperwork to prove it), or was this all cooked up many months afterwards.... I think I can hazard a guess at the answer to this, but will leave that to the lawyers and EFL to sort out.

 

Absolutely. I think you answered the question in your last paragraph.

[billyblack]

1 minute ago, striker said:

The EFL don't give a throw about the fans,  ask Bolton, Bury, Macclesfield etc...

 

And, therein lies the hipocracy of FFP designed to restrict clubs from overspending, but then fining them if they do. There is no distinction between owners and the clubs as almost all clubs are loss making and propped up by owners. 

 

The issues caused in football are resultant from an outdated FFP system  which fails to take into account the inflation in fees and wages  overseen by the EFL in light of premier league failure payments. 

 

The result being the gap between the championship and premier league widening every season with a spend of £50-100m required on promotion to stand a chance of staying up.

The issues caused in football are by outgoings being bigger than incomings in revenue terms and the fact that as a business its not a sustainable model..Nothing to do with FFP.

[andytrig]

1 minute ago, Nut said:

We havent been found guilty yet!

Do you honestly think we won't be?

[Hodgyowl]

19 hours ago, Skyline said:

Points deduction.

 

Transfer embargo.

 

Great to be a Wednesdayite right now

And a nice fine to fill the wallets of the EFL big wigs.

[sweetsheri]

4 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

Thanks for posting this link.

 

It raised a few questions for me:

 

 

It seems to be basically accepted that this practice is a way of fiddling the books. But, as the EFL's own rules have left this loophole open, and Villa and Derby have been allowed to do this ruse without any punishment, then I can't see how much of this is relevant or punishable by the EFL's own precedents....

 

e.g. When selling a property, it seems to me you are well within your rights to negotiate whatever type of repayment schedule that you want. Similarly, when selling a property, the valuation is usually the largest amount of money that you can get for it (whether overpriced or not, often people will pay over the odds if they think it will be worth more in the future).

 

Of course, this is slightly complicated when you are selling something to yourself (!), but again - I would argue that if Derby and Villa have been allowed to do this (and the £80m valuation of Pride Park is clearly taking the mick as well) then there seems to be a good case for the defence here.

 

So really, it all comes down to the question of when the sale was made and which year it should fall under in the accounts. Did Chansiri have this bright idea in time (and has he got the paperwork to prove it), or was this all cooked up many months afterwards.... I think I can hazard a guess at the answer to this, but will leave that to the lawyers and EFL to sort out.

 

Surely the auditors who signed off the accounts must have been satisfied via proof that the sales could be included in the 

accounts for the year they were signing them off?

[Nut]

5 minutes ago, Owl Be Back said:

 

It could be more severe than Birmingham's in order to make a further example and to dissuade others and considering what SWFC has done being worse. Potentially could be a deduction of points in the high teens or even more.

 

I don't like FFP, I think there are other ways sustainability of clubs could be achieved, but I knew selling the ground to the owner was dodgy so it doesn't surprise me this has happened and I blame nobody but our owner and anyone who has advised him to do this.

We havent been found guilty of anything. The club say they will defend this vigorously. They must think they have acted correctly. Why not wait and see how this unfolds?

[billyblack]

40 minutes ago, striker said:

Dont disagree with this in principle. We've tried to comply with the rules,  do what the EFL asked and we've been prevented from competing through embargoes for almost 2 seasons. 

 

I'd argue that we've already been punished, but if additional punishment is coming  time to tell the EFL to go fizz themselves and let it play out in the courts. 

 

Someone needs to stand up to the EFL.

Thats because we spent what we couldnt afford.

[SallyCinnamon]

48 minutes ago, BowOwl said:

DC should absolutely throw everything at it in Jan, buy Bale or something ridiculous. Get promoted and stick 2 fingers up at the EFL as we go. What else has he got to lose now.

In the meantime find every possible way to push the decision until after start of next season. As soon as the new PL seasons kicks off, if we are there then there is nothing they can do

Wolves did it...

Great idea. More boom or bust tactics which got us in this mess in the first place. 
 

If we were 5 points clear at the top, this would make sense. But no we’re 8th and not really very convincing as promotion candidate. 
 

Take the hit, get rid of the play off players in the summer and rebuild. Hopefully learn and try a more sustainable approach. 

[asteener1867]

This thread simply follows the same format as an "adam reach/adthe nuhiu/Morgan fox one...etc etc

some are wildly optimistic, some pessemistic, Happy clappers or bed wetters....Sums us all up, but it sums most other football forums up.

To take the view that "owlstalk" is some sort of yardstick for Wednesday fans is a little delusional, most fans I know aren't on, or have probably never heard of it.

The vague notion that anybody who criticises owt Wednesday do, isn't a Wednesday fan, or doesn't go is equally delusional.

These days you have to remember that fans who don't go, probably get a better view than those who actually do...annoying isn't it?

This particular spat?

It seems you can't criticise Delphjon Chansiri without having some sort of agenda, thats beyond stupid, because he has made mistakes, and we ourselves went along with it as it happened.

It didn't come off, and we have to own that, so does Delphjon Chansiri.

He charges the highest prices in the league, a fact you can't get away from, and sure a fair few of us pay it..and so..A fair few of us are entitled to an opinion when you pay these prices and it goes t*ts.

Its not some sort of hatred for Delphjon Chansiri, but you can't be a bloody nodding dog when you think things are wrong.

We will see what happens with the EFL, I doubt any of us are acquainted with the full facts, so its speculation at the moment...

I speculate that if we have broken the rules..Its a massive rickett on the part of Delphjon Chansiri, you cannot own the club , lock stock and barrel, then avoid criticism when the lock stock and barrel fall to bits, it comes with the territory.

If we have ballsed it up..Take it on the chin and get on with it, that goes for both Delphjon Chansiri..and us

[Emerson Thome]

Oh, and if people are planning for worst case scenarios... here's some context on how many points we would have needed to have been deducted to get relegated these past few seasons:

 

2018/19 season = 25 points

2017/18 season = 17 points

2016/17 season = 31 points

2015/16 season = 35 points

2014/15 season = 20 points

[billyblack]

1 minute ago, Nut said:

We havent been found guilty of anything. The club say they will defend this vigorously. They must think they have acted correctly. Why not wait and see how this unfolds?

Bet they are dashing to Staples now to stock up on Tipex

[billyblack]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Great idea. More boom or bust tactics which got us in this mess in the first place. 
 

If we were 5 points clear at the top, this would make sense. But no we’re 8th and not really very convincing as promotion candidate. 
 

Take the hit, get rid of the play off players in the summer and rebuild. Hopefully learn and try a more sustainable approach. 

Wahey for sense