room0035 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 The problem with the 1867 plan it won't help the profit and sustainability one bit. You pay money to the club for a season ticket on promotion of the side, as well as this you get a discount on your season tickets until promotion from next season. This is the gist of the deal. So in order for the club to release any money from the sale of this they would have to achieve promotion so any money that comes in will be classed as deferred income i.e. cannot be released as additional revenue until the stipulation of the deal are realised i.e. promotion. Even if they argue that they are giving discounts on season tickets that does not start till next season so just covers the cost of lost season ticket money. Other than putting some money in the bank to pay the bill the whole scheme is a complete farce. I would suggest the club get a proper trained advisor in before wasting anymore time on a scheme that on the face of it will in no way help FFP or Profit and Sustainability as it will be a balance sheet item not profit and loss to those accounts people out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latemodelchild Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 hours ago, HarrowbyOwl said: Leaving aside the future lost revenue from Prem ticket sales and the admin costs of running the scheme and assuming: 1) a ratio of full to concession tickets of 3:1 2) equal take-up across the 3 stands For every 1000 subscribers (750 full, 250 over 65) the club would receive: 1 year: £490,000 2 years: £980,000 3 years: £1,469,167 4 years: £1,959,167 5 years: £2,449,167 So if you take the median of 3 years as average the club would get £1.47m per 1000 joining the scheme That equates to £28,253 per week. Less than the pay of 1 of our top earners. As a solution to our P&S difficulties you'd have to be aiming for a take-up of several thousand. Realistically, how many people can you see taking the plunge? These figures are a bit more refined than I've been thinking but thereabouts. I've been negative about all this, I see that now, and if folk want to buy into it then please go ahead and do it, but I don't see how it will make a big enough difference. The figures are just so far apart as regards what it will raise vs our wage bill. I know Abdi etc are players that could have worked out, but when I think about the money that's been wasted it makes me sick when we're asked to pay more. Sell. Some. Players. Reduce. The. Wage. Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, Hirst1867 said: Im in my 50s - so Id definitely need some assurances that I can pass it on to my kids if we don't get in the Premier League in my lifetime The way Dc is managing the club I would be checking if you could pass it to your grand kids. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, Hirst1867 said: Im in my 50s - so Id definitely need some assurances that I can pass it on to my kids if we don't get in the Premier League in my lifetime I should think that would be a concern for somebody in their twenties. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, latemodelchild said: These figures are a bit more refined than I've been thinking but thereabouts. I've been negative about all this, I see that now, and if folk want to buy into it then please go ahead and do it, but I don't see how it will make a big enough difference. The figures are just so far apart as regards what it will raise vs our wage bill. I know Abdi etc are players that could have worked out, but when I think about the money that's been wasted it makes me sick when we're asked to pay more. Sell. Some. Players. Reduce. The. Wage. Bill. By the end of his contract including the fee we paid we will have wasted in the region of £7m on one playing in Abdi who made 16 appearances scoring 1 goal putting that into perspective that's about 1/3 of the clubs turnover last season on 1 player, this of course does not include the amount of money spent on not getting him fit for the last 3 years that could make the £7m a lot higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 hours ago, JOHNHARKES said: You talk some reyt ballacks.... Let me explain what i was originally saying, As people are picking up on chosen posts and trying to be comedians. I was initially reacting to posts claiming the club are in financial trouble. In my opinion the club is effectively debt free but not free from potential FFP sanctions.. 1-The club has no external loans or debts to any banks meaning any future sale would mean potential new owners would have no external debt to manage. See part 16 of financial statement posted @Rickygoo. As an example: if Chansiri had taken a 20 million loan against SWFC from a bank (as did Dave Richards) Then any future owner would inherit that debt. DC hasn't done this and has funded himself. 2- Chansiri has put in 38million of his own money which is Part 17 of same statement. Should he decide to sell he would try and recoup most of his outlay with an inflated valuation of the club. Example : if Chansiri valued the club at 80 million and a potential new owner valued it at 50 million. They would agree a deal to sell say 65million and that sale would include Chansiri's 38 million. Meaning DC would get (65million sale - 38 million loan) = 27 million So effectively SWFC as a club are debt free while DC (owner) will be the one that will lose money. I would start to worry if DC took a loan from a bank as this would mean he has stopped funding the clubs debt himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersiggi Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, room0035 said: The problem with the 1867 plan it won't help the profit and sustainability one bit. You pay money to the club for a season ticket on promotion of the side, as well as this you get a discount on your season tickets until promotion from next season. This is the gist of the deal. So in order for the club to release any money from the sale of this they would have to achieve promotion so any money that comes in will be classed as deferred income i.e. cannot be released as additional revenue until the stipulation of the deal are realised i.e. promotion. Even if they argue that they are giving discounts on season tickets that does not start till next season so just covers the cost of lost season ticket money. Other than putting some money in the bank to pay the bill the whole scheme is a complete farce. I would suggest the club get a proper trained advisor in before wasting anymore time on a scheme that on the face of it will in no way help FFP or Profit and Sustainability as it will be a balance sheet item not profit and loss to those accounts people out there. We already have an expert on P&S at the club. DC told us at the forum he knew more about it than anybody. Sure Willow will back me up on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hirst1867 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, supersiggi said: We already have an expert on P&S at the club. DC told us at the forum he knew more about it than anybody. Sure Willow will back me up on this. This is true. John Redgate actually helped to write the legislation for FFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, Willow Owl said: Let me explain what i was originally saying, As people are picking up on chosen posts and trying to be comedians. I was initially reacting to posts claiming the club are in financial trouble. In my opinion the club is effectively debt free but not free from potential FFP sanctions.. 1-The club has no external loans or debts to any banks meaning any future sale would mean potential new owners would have no external debt to manage. See part 16 of financial statement posted @Rickygoo. As an example: if Chansiri had taken a 20 million loan against SWFC from a bank (as did Dave Richards) Then any future owner would inherit that debt. DC hasn't done this and has funded himself. 2- Chansiri has put in 38million of his own money which is Part 17 of same statement. Should he decide to sell he would try and recoup most of his outlay with an inflated valuation of the club. Example : if Chansiri valued the club at 80 million and a potential new owner valued it at 50 million. They would agree a deal to sell say 65million and that sale would include Chansiri's 38 million. Meaning DC would get (65million sale - 38 million loan) = 27 million So effectively SWFC as a club are debt free while DC (owner) will be the one that will lose money. I would start to worry if DC took a loan from a bank as this would mean he has stopped funding the clubs debt himself. DC is debt free SWFC would not be should DC decide to pull it So it's hardly risk free for Wednesday and the supporters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 21 hours ago, steelowl said: So given that according to mardiola we have players on 40k a week we will have to sell 20 Kop x 5 year 1867 packages to cover one week's wages is that right ? so to cover one player's wages for 3 months we need 240 people just how many thousand people does he seriously think will take this up tor will be able to take this up to be of any use whatsoever? have i misread this ? 3 hours ago, HarrowbyOwl said: Leaving aside the future lost revenue from Prem ticket sales and the admin costs of running the scheme and assuming: 1) a ratio of full to concession tickets of 3:1 2) equal take-up across the 3 stands For every 1000 subscribers (750 full, 250 over 65) the club would receive: 1 year: £490,000 2 years: £980,000 3 years: £1,469,167 4 years: £1,959,167 5 years: £2,449,167 So if you take the median of 3 years as average the club would get £1.47m per 1000 joining the scheme That equates to £28,253 per week. Less than the pay of 1 of our top earners. As a solution to our P&S difficulties you'd have to be aiming for a take-up of several thousand. Realistically, how many people can you see taking the plunge? thanks so I am right this is a seemingly pointless exercise unless taken up by almost every ST holder I really think DC thinks people can afford it and cannot understand why not granted this scheme is only for people who can afford it or I hope so i would hate people to get into loaning cash to buy into neverland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) We are not debt free... Think the bigger point is Chansiri has and will seemingly continue to squander the sizeable sums he has and is pumping in. His management of the club is all about the short term. Edited January 23, 2019 by SiJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, SiJ said: We are not debt free... Think the bigger point is Chansiri has and will seemingly continue you to squander the sizeable sums he has and is pumping in. His management of the club is all about the short term. get it right SiJ it's always been about avoiding relegation the 'spend whatever it takes' to get us up was fake news 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyto Alba Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 The club is being run so recklessly that if he leaves it will implode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, steelowl said: get it right SiJ it's always been about avoiding relegation the 'spend whatever it takes' to get us up was fake news Oh, I forgot. Yes, we spent 30 million (in transfer fees) just to keep us in the second tier. Nothing to do with promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulgaria Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 At the end of the day, it's just ANOTHER attempt to fleece the fans of cash. They just see us as cash cows. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulgaria Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 We have without doubt one of the most patient and loyal fan bases, and yes if you buy a season ticket it's good value, this year I am out of the country more so I can't justify buying one. I bought my old man one and my nephew for their Xmas gifts but when I come over I rarely go as I refuse to pay on the gate the prices, Birmingham apart as that was a excellent price. I subscribe to I follow... I feel I do my bit. How's about the club doing something for the fans for once? This latest idea is just embarrassing and to be quite frank, laughable. Like many, I feel absolutely disconnected from my CLUB and it pains me that I can't come over and spend a day out at the footy with my old man without thinking I am ripped off. There is no one to blame but DC for our situation, good intentions maybe but now it's gone tiits up, the fans are expected to try and bail us out. Some of the posts on here should be sent to the club as the ideas I read regarding generating money are 1000 times better than some hair brained idea called 1867 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, 2roland2 said: wasting your time mate, he's just going to send you around in circles and you will repeat again and again, and he will look silly then start all over again Playing to an audience now. Must be a first for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31Dec1966 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 This is just so bizarre. I read it several times, then read this thread through to try and understand it. I cannot see why anyone would buy this, anyone at all. You can buy a season ticket next month or you can use the same money to bet on us getting to the PL next year in a brilliant unbeaten season when we finish top and promoted by Easter (which you will miss because you spent the money on the bet instead of a season ticket). Have I got that right ? Surely not. I have argued for innovation and initiative at the club but this is so unrealistic it's ridiculous. And, as others have indicated it would need a massive take up to make any difference. The wages bill has to be trimmed quickly, anything else is tinkering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNHARKES Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Willow Owl said: Another keyboard warrior, Yawn. Your parents must look at you and think what a waste of a f@ck that was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 funny thing this every other month the club defenders who won't accept a word of disapproval of this regime rotate and post on a 24/7 basis which one of you is /was watson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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