We have a serious defensive issue (sorry, it's a long one)

[StudentOwl]

I know this might seem painfully obvious because we've conceded four today, but positionally I've not seen such an inept defensive display since I watched non-league football. 

 

Goal 1:

There isn't much danger here. Tom Lees is marking a right footer, Pelupessy is fast jogging back to force the ball carrier wide, the eventual goalscorer Danny Graham is marked by Thorniley. The only danger comes if that gap between Lees and Hector is exploited. Lees let's Dack run the long way around him and still lets him get to the ball first with the pass inside. Thorniley steps across because Hector is forced to step across and that leaves Graham free at the far post. I don't know what Tom Lees is doing letting that happen. It's three on four in our favour, there's no way one pass and a decent first touch and shot by Dack should be beating our four defensive players. This should be the sort of drill that a defending team wins 95 times out of 100. 

 

Goal 2:

Look at the absolute state of this. I know we've not been out of possession long, but the spacing in this is frightening. Hector and Lees are too close together, Hector needs to be about 6-8 yards further to the left closer to Thorniley. The gap between Bannan and Pelupessy is about 10 yards too big. Thorniley should arguably be a few yards further back. In isolation I think it would be easy to assume there's another player just outside the frame to the right between Thorniley and Hector the gap is so big. The second that ball gets played into that channel and Hector has to come across, it's two on one in the middle. There's no chance for Pelupessy or Palmer to get back and support because there's no delay in the Blackburn player continuing to play forward because the starting position is so utter sheeeeite they don't even have to slow down their attack.

 

 

Goal 3:

This for me is the worst of the bunch. Too easily again Dack gets through the midfield, and in conjunction with Harrison Reed and their right back are threatening a 3-on-1 against our left back Thorniley. Equally Danny Graham is making a run to the right centre back position. To mitigate against our 3-on-1 situation, Hector needs to track left to make it 3-on-2 and basically then hope that that slows down the attack for long enough to allow Bannan and Pelupessy to move across and make up the numbers. Tom Lees can then cover Graham and it gives Palmer time to get back. So lord knows why Tom Lees decides to start running to the left. I think he's telling Hector to close the ball carrier down, but is then just running sideways like an idiot? Put it like this, the following picture is perhaps one of the worst bit of CB positioning I have ever seen at any level of football. 

It's extraordinary really. 

 

 

Goal 4: 

The story here isn't so much poor defensive positioning as opposed to midfield just dissipating. I watched a stream today (just in case anyone thinks I'm just going off 90 seconds of highlights... ) but unfortunately I can't remember the bit of play prior to this. Bannan and Reach's positioning would be perfect if Pelupessy was between the two as the midfield 3. As it is, he's not. Maybe he was doing the right thing by chasing the ball in an area he was meant to be in, maybe he went on walkabouts and needs to be lynched for not being where he should be. Irregardless, Bannan and Reach then need to compensate for their meandering teammate. The gap between them is disgustingly too big. Hector then misses an interception that maybe he should get and it's game over. 

 

 

 

I know this is a fairly long spiel about something that can be summed up in one sentence... we can't defend for sh*t. But I think today, more than most performances, have highlighted equally between a tactical ignorance, individual mistakes and downright sh*t performances from players that should be performing better. Reach is not a centre midfielder and offers nothing defensively. Neither really does Bannan in a positional sense. Normally positionally he's fine but Pelupessy is just letting people past him far too easily. Tom Lees is borderline a fraud of a CB these days. Palmer offers nothing. Thorniley isn't a left back and I think can be very positionally naive in that role. Hector I don't think knows what best to do with Lees alongside him. From players to manager, I think we're absolutely bereft of any idea on how to be a defensive unit. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by StudentOwl

[torres]

I can’t be bothered to read all that but the problem stems from the midfield or total lack of it 

 

Reach is a waste of time in that position-doesn’t effect the play enough going forward and defensively is horrific - tackles like a girl 

 

The wide players are forwards and have no positional sense 

 

Bannan runs about wherever he wants 

 

Pelupessy - no words 

 

I am not saying the back 4 are outstanding but they have little or no help whatsoever 

[sternlad]

Really good analysis...get thi sen darn to Middlewood Road fost thing Monday! Goal 2 what the flying f*** are Thornily and Palmer doing, one chasing back desperately to get back on his man and the other about to be drawn in to the ball carrier. The whole defence is about to be turned to face their own goal in that still shot, attackers love that and they capitalise again and again...especially against us. Defensive midfield should be in there slowing down the ball, missing presumed lost at sea...even semedo would have done something to slow it down. All at sea...best describes the whole farcical set up at the moment FFS!

[SallyCinnamon]

Good post. Frightening when it gets broken down. I was fuming with Lees for the third goal, as was everyone around me. From where I was sat everyone around me just asked what fizz is he doing.

 

Midfield is a big problem. I’ve shouted it from the hill tops but Adam Reach is a wide player, he should not be playing centrally. Pelupessy isn’t good enough. And Bannan for all of his ability and hard work, needs someone alongside him who is a big physical presence.

 

The defence is a joke and the organisation throughout the side is embarrassing for a professional club. 

 

[Ian_D]

I wouldn't normally read a post that long but I did this time.  Absolutely spot-on StudentOwl.

 

How can any manager put up with that unless he has no idea how to fix it.

[0114]

When your not very good at defending... just keep the back 4 in a very straight line. You have one Cb commanding when to move up and drop and the others must always stay in line with him, this should be Lees seeing as he is captain. 

 

We are creating our own problems. Getting caught in possession and over playing in the wrong areas. We must be the easiest team in the division to high press. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, torres said:

I can’t be bothered to read all that but the problem stems from the midfield or total lack of it 

 

Reach is a waste of time in that position-doesn’t effect the play enough going forward and defensively is horrific - tackles like a girl 

 

The wide players are forwards and have no positional sense 

 

Bannan runs about wherever he wants 

 

Pelupessy - no words 

 

I am not saying the back 4 are outstanding but they have little or no help whatsoever 

 

The opening post is right in that Lees has been poor for much of this season and Hector tends to play well generally only to ruin it with sloppy, costly mistakes.

 

You are spot on about the midfield though, not a proper tackle in them and no coordinated shape without the ball. 

 

Every one of the pictures in the OP shows Blackburn running beyond our midfield and at our back 4 with multiple runners going towards our goal, Symptomatic of what has happened to us all season in that we are wide open and can't make teams to play with attacking players with their backs to goal and force them to play it backwards. 

 

Thorniley has largely been a liability in the few games he has played at full-back. He did OK the other night but that was largely due to the inept opposition not being good enough to pressure us. He has been our most consistent performer at CB this season but Jos is now trying to shoehorn another player into a position he doesn't look comfortable in.

[Bouncing Owl]

I have been of the opinion for a while that our defensive woes have been down to us not having a proper defensive midfielder in the team. Joey and Bannan are too lightweight. Our opponents are cutting through us at will and are putting our defence under pressure. The amount of times Blackburn and Dack in particular ran around Joey today was ridiculous. Obviously it doesn’t help when Jos is changing the system every week and personnel. 

[scram]

I'd say that the first picture is crying out "danger" personally

 

Any semi competent parks player can just roll the ball into the green space behind Lees and between Hector

 

But agreed in general our positional play is dreadful

 

I am convinced a lot of fans only see the first/immediate phase of play - and whether a defender heads/tackles etc - positional play is such a huge part of the art of defending

 

Doesn't help when the opposition keep breaking our midfield lines at will - but still no excuse of getting wrong side and just letting attackers run off them

[Ronnie Starling]

It was clear to see after the play off final that we needed a physical midfielder in the middle. We never addressed it and it's bearing fruit now. We have a squad of very average players that lag miles behind the rest of the league and none are nowhere near Premier League class as some posters often cite on here.

[Lord Snooty]

34 minutes ago, Ronnie Starling said:

It was clear to see after the play off final that we needed a physical midfielder in the middle. We never addressed it and it's bearing fruit now. We have a squad of very average players that lag miles behind the rest of the league and none are nowhere near Premier League class as some posters often cite on here.

 

I'd go as far as saying it was clear to see long before the play of final.

[mcmigo]

The moment that our recent history hinges on was the signing of Van Aken. We finished 6th and 4th with a good, if slow, squad but Big Glenn was showing signs of being leggy and we needed that one centre back who could come in and provide the defensive leadership we needed to kick on. From that point on, we have stunk the place out.

I only hope at some point someone writes a book about this period in our history. We paid 5 million quid for a defender who has the defensive footwork of a player at Scottish league 2 level and it was clear this was the case from the first 5 minutes of his debut. Something simply is not right about that transfer, I do not believe for a moment that any scout missed the very clear problems with the player. 

Poor Jos is trying to throw kids into the back line when we should have a 5 million quid centre back commanding them all.  Not one English pound was paid for that defence on the pitch today.

[scram]

Agreed - JVA is an awful defender

 

Dont give a shiny one that he can hit a beautiful 60 yarder while he's making Chris Carr look like Baresi

[Guest Theboylangers]

3 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

The moment that our recent history hinges on was the signing of Van Aken. We finished 6th and 4th with a good, if slow, squad but Big Glenn was showing signs of being leggy and we needed that one centre back who could come in and provide the defensive leadership we needed to kick on. From that point on, we have stunk the place out.

I only hope at some point someone writes a book about this period in our history. We paid 5 million quid for a defender who has the defensive footwork of a player at Scottish league 2 level and it was clear this was the case from the first 5 minutes of his debut. Something simply is not right about that transfer, I do not believe for a moment that any scout missed the very clear problems with the player. 

Poor Jos is trying to throw kids into the back line when we should have a 5 million quid centre back commanding them all.  Not one English pound was paid for that defence on the pitch today.

Very perceptive. And what a great post. 

[Animis]

we are really poor - it's unbelievable we've managed 23 points.

[gurujuan]

34 minutes ago, Ronnie Starling said:

It was clear to see after the play off final that we needed a physical midfielder in the middle. We never addressed it and it's bearing fruit now. We have a squad of very average players that lag miles behind the rest of the league and none are nowhere near Premier League class as some posters often cite on here.

We have such a player in Hector, but Jos won’t utilise him there More concerning for me, is the failure of our players to do the same. We have players like Forestieri and Reach, who are well suited to playing between the lines, but again, the roles they are given are more basic

[mcmigo]

He either hasn’t been taught, or can’t, get his footwork right. He has no idea when to drive off which foot, which is basic as it comes.  He looks ‘ flat footed’ when balls or players come at him as his weight is driving into the wrong foot and he is too tall to shift back quickly.

Gut feel , he won’t play for us again. We should settle up on his contract and he can hopefully have some sort of career in China or the USA league. 

[Hitcat]

I could have told you that by the number of goals we're conceding.

[deano]

9 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

The moment that our recent history hinges on was the signing of Van Aken. We finished 6th and 4th with a good, if slow, squad but Big Glenn was showing signs of being leggy and we needed that one centre back who could come in and provide the defensive leadership we needed to kick on. From that point on, we have stunk the place out.

I only hope at some point someone writes a book about this period in our history. We paid 5 million quid for a defender who has the defensive footwork of a player at Scottish league 2 level and it was clear this was the case from the first 5 minutes of his debut. Something simply is not right about that transfer, I do not believe for a moment that any scout missed the very clear problems with the player. 

Poor Jos is trying to throw kids into the back line when we should have a 5 million quid centre back commanding them all.  Not one English pound was paid for that defence on the pitch today.

Really good post. 

[Dylan93]

If you get punched repeatedly, eventually you’ll go down. It’s the same with our defence. They have CONSTANT pressure. The strikers don’t hold the ball up at all. And the midfield.. oh boy. That’s the biggest problem in my eyes. BUT! We aren’t allowed to slag BB or AR on this forum are we? We don’t press, we don’t win first/second balls, there’s no width or movement, we can’t pass. There’s nothing! The midfield is where a game is won and lost and teams go straight through us.  It’s upto Jos to sort it