Semedo's ferret Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 50 minutes ago, MrTacoSWFC said: I think it's safe to say, we will be a mid table team for a couple of seasons... unless we punch above our weight. That's punching above our weight TBF. The wheels fell off in August 2017 and as a fan base we're constantly turning a blind eye to it. It will get much worse before better. Players with worth will have to go then it's a complete rebuild. Jos was brought in to do this but at minute he's stuck between two worlds.Providing we stay in the championship . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottler Owl Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Agree with the OP, has his hands well and truly tied behind his back. Agree the chopping and changing of personnel can be frustrating but as pointed out this bagged us just 1 defeat in 9 before these last 2 disappointing games. I get that this approach isn't that popular and people like a established team but I think you'd struggle to get much agreement as to the best combo of players and formation between fans. Jos has made a career, and several promotions to boot, through being flexible and pragmatic but we have to remember this isn't a team built in his image and he's working with the tools at his disposal. I honestly think the way forward would be to cash in on Reach AND Forestieri (though I fear we've missed his peak value) as well as jettisoning the out of contract big earners to allow Jos to build a side he wants which I'd guess would include a number of young hungry German and Dutch players. The cries for Westwood et al are completely pointless and I very much doubt it has anything to do with Jos in all honesty, even with them I doubt very much we'd be looking at promotion and who knows what the financial implications around playing them are. It's a strange situation for sure but one that I doubt we'll be privy to for a long time yet. Whatever the approach it'll be a lean couple of seasons unless we unearth some gems along the way, we'll win some, draw some and lose some. Said at the start of the season we'd finish 13th and I've no reason to change my mind. All just my opinion mind! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoorfOwl Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 While it’s true that consistent selection produces familiarity, it can also discourage originality. We get used to doing things one way, our opponents learn that way and work out how to nullify it, and then what? Added to this problem, regular players get used to relying on the team star. As Norfolk said earlier, the more traffic is routed through Bannan, the less space Bannan will be allowed by opponents. By contrast our fringe players, we hope, will be making a determined bid for a regular place and ready to try something new and audacious in the hope of catching the eye. If you never rotate your fringe players into the team, they are not even going to be ready to plug the gaps created by our inevitable injuries. I, for one, will put my hand up and say I looked at last night’s team in advance and thought it looked a good solid selection. When you’re going through a phase of two matches a week, you will get mental fatigue even if you don’t get physical fatigue. Mental fatigue will result in usually good players making silly mistakes that they wouldn’t make when relatively fresh. Physical fatigue will increase the risk of injury to our more vulnerable players. Moreover, either you believe in a youth policy or you don’t. Everybody wants the finished product of a youth policy: a talented group of players, loyal to a club that has treated them well and able to mix it at the top of the league. Nobody wants the building process where maybe a young player makes a mistake that wouldn’t have been made by a senior pro who’s been left out of the side, and maybe that mistake costs us the game. But you don’t create a youth policy overnight and young players are only very rarely instant stars. Sometimes they are shooting stars that briefly burn very brightly and then are almost snuffed out as opponents learn how to counter their moves and they have to learn new moves themselves. Sometimes they slowly develop into world beaters, even though initially all we spectators see is faults. I’ll put my hand up again and admit I was unimpressed by the young Colin Dobson; now that’s a pretty big error, folks! In short, I agree with Snoots. We can see what Jos is trying to do, and the objective he’s aiming for is a good one. Not everything he tries will come off, but very few of us are actually perfect, are we? We tried buying instant success and sadly it didn’t work. Now we have to do it the right way. Of course, it’s slower and of course, we’re all upset when we lose. ‘Twas ever thus. But there isn’t really an alternative, is there? Just hang on; this is inevitably going to be a bumpy road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bottler Owl said: Agree with the OP, has his hands well and truly tied behind his back. Agree the chopping and changing of personnel can be frustrating but as pointed out this bagged us just 1 defeat in 9 before these last 2 disappointing games. I get that this approach isn't that popular and people like a established team but I think you'd struggle to get much agreement as to the best combo of players and formation between fans. Jos has made a career, and several promotions to boot, through being flexible and pragmatic but we have to remember this isn't a team built in his image and he's working with the tools at his disposal. I honestly think the way forward would be to cash in on Reach AND Forestieri (though I fear we've missed his peak value) as well as jettisoning the out of contract big earners to allow Jos to build a side he wants which I'd guess would include a number of young hungry German and Dutch players. The cries for Westwood et al are completely pointless and I very much doubt it has anything to do with Jos in all honesty, even with them I doubt very much we'd be looking at promotion and who knows what the financial implications around playing them are. It's a strange situation for sure but one that I doubt we'll be privy to for a long time yet. Whatever the approach it'll be a lean couple of seasons unless we unearth some gems along the way, we'll win some, draw some and lose some. Said at the start of the season we'd finish 13th and I've no reason to change my mind. All just my opinion mind! Good post. I agree re FF, don’t think he’s the hot commodity he once was, unless he returns from injury and hits real form. Reach is our prized asset, Bannans a strange one where most of the league and above are aware of his talent, but you never hear of any potential interest. So Reach is the only one I can see going for anything over 8 figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughdowd Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 57 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: I'm pretty sure that the manager is as frustrated as we are with the two recent defeats. I'm sure he was hoping that we'd be able to keep up the sequence that had seen us pick up just 1 defeat in 9 before this Friday-Tuesday no show. He's working with the tools he has at his disposal. We can say it's pap. And last nights second half showing was pap. (I didn't think we looked too threatened first half to be honest) So we've lost two on the spin now. That's 3 wins on the spin now for QPR. Just shows how teams can put little runs together. I'm sure he'd like to be able to mix things up. Must be as frustrated as us. He's had two transfer windows to sort things out so far hasn't he. Well, actually.....has he? Because in those two windows he's been allowed to make one permanent signing. And in the last window two loan signings. One of who I think has been a huge success overall. Out Glenn Loovens - Free Ross Wallace - Free Jake Kean - Free George Hirst - TB Jack Hunt -£1.6m Sean Clare - Free Fred Venancio - Loan end Received est -: £1.9m In Pelupessy Paid Est -: £375k With the contracts that are up in the summer. Some of them huge contracts that have been sapping the club he will, hopefully, be given the chance to make some headway and put his own stamp on the team. I'm sure he'll look forward with as much relish as us supporters to see some of the dead wood finally offloaded ready to rebuild with the sort of players he wants. But there's a problem again there isn't there! Because though we'll be seeing the back of some big earning low hitters we're not going to recoup anywhere near the outlay we paid for them in fees, signing on fees or wages .And on that score he once more faces a window with his hands tied behind his back. We might be able to play a game of "one in one out" but the likelyhood is that the players we bring in will be young, hungry and cheap. In many ways that's great. Personally I want to see young hungry players. But it does mean there is going to be no easy fix. There will be no spending on ready made quality players. It's a long haul. And whether Jos is the manager you wan't or don't want - whether he's the right man or the wrong man - the truth remains that whoever was in the hotseat. Whether it be Jos, Meggo, Big Mick or Pep Gaurdiola they would all be facing the same problem. Namely having to claw back money while trying to build a side. And on top that, build a side which supporters want challenging at the top end! It's destroyed Shreeves and Yorath in the past having to do the same. Made Chris Turner risk his reputation as a playing legend. Doesn't matter who the manager is. We could have a new one every 3 months, the story would be the same. Which is why, at the moment, I think it's worth giving this man the backing whilst he tries to rebuild after the shining , glittering temple we attempted to build in a short time on sand collapsed. He nor any other manager has the scope to make this mess.... Darryl Lachman Brad Beatson Marco Matias Lewis Price Ross Wallace Lewis McGugan Lucas João Jonatas Centeno Rhoys Wiggins Modou Sougou Fernando Forestieri Barry Bannan Jack Hunt Gary Hooper Steven Fletcher Jake Kean Almen Abdi Daniel Pudil David Jones Vincent Sasso Adam Reach Urby Emanuelson Morgan Fox Sam Winnall Jordan Rhodes George Boyd Joost van Aken Est - £33m Lewis Buxton Giles Coke Paul Corry Rafael Floro Dejan Kelhar Gary Madine Jacques Maghoma Joe Mattock Rhys McCabe Matt Young Kamil Zayatte Chris Kirkland Chris Maguire Stevie May Rhoys Wiggins Lewis Price Caolan Lavery Marnick Vermijl Jérémy Hélan Sergiu Buș Claude Dielna Urby Emanuelson Darryl Lachman Vincent Sasso Jose Semedo Modou Sougou Filipe Melo Lewis McGugan James Murphy Est - : £1.3m ... a quick or easy fix. I understand your point ... BUT....it’s about motivating the players we have then ... something jos sadly lacks ... I personally think that a manager like McCarthy.. Holloway..lambert etc would be able to man manage and motivate the players better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Hughdowd said: I understand your point ... BUT....it’s about motivating the players we have then ... something jos sadly lacks ... I personally think that a manager like McCarthy.. Holloway..lambert etc would be able to man manage and motivate the players better And yet...two of them are all out of work. Presumably for not being able to motivate the last set of players they had to work with... Edited October 24, 2018 by Lord Snooty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne_rat_of_s6 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Sickening thing about all this is you only have to look to S2 to see what a good manager can do on a shoe string. Jos has had long enough to get a settled side from what he has available. No excuse for chopping and changing so much and there being a completely random approach to formations, line-ups etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughdowd Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Lord Snooty said: And yet...they are all out of work. Presumably for not being able to motivate the last set of players they had to work with... Yes ok ... but all have a proven record of getting teams promoted in English football... also jos and Carlos weren’t in jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hack-Abusi Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 that list that DC green lighted Carlos to bring in .... christ THIRTY THREE FÚCKING MILLION POUND ON SOME ABSOLUTE UTTER DROSS ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hughdowd said: Yes ok ... but all have a proven record of getting teams promoted in English football... also jos and Carlos weren’t in jobs You think those managers would get this team promoted? We fell short when it was full of the best we have fit and healthy. Now half of those are injured/finished/can't afford to be paid and we're relying on loans, kids and some who are just bang average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, FreshOwl said: You scream for changes when we get beat, so he makes the necessary changes Get beat with new team - “he’s got to stick with the same team week in week out” I mean cmon do some of you read what you’re saying Football fans in a nutshell. Superficial, hypocritical, self-righteous, unrealistic, dishonest, impatient... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Of The Roasters Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, airborne_rat_of_s6 said: Sickening thing about all this is you only have to look to S2 to see what a good manager can do on a shoe string. I agree they've been shrewd. Trouble is, because of mismanagement over the last couple of years, we don't even have a shoestring for Jos to work on....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughdowd Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Lord Snooty said: You think those managers would get this team promoted? We fell short when it was full of the best we have fit and healthy. Now half of those are injured/finished/can't afford to be paid and we're relying on loans, kids and some who are just bang average. Promoted ha ha...forget that !!!..... we will need one of those type of managers just to keep us up ... Getting other teams promoted shows that they know what is needed in this league... I’m sorry but jos doesn’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalowlisback Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 No manager in his right mind, changes formation and the entire defence whilst he's at it. Really enjoyed the fantastic width provided by our Centre Half's playing at full-back too. I mean, who could have seen any of what happened last night, coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hughdowd said: Promoted ha ha...forget that !!!..... I forgot about promotion before the season started. I just thought that's what you might have been suggesting as you've been mentioning their promotion records. 3 minutes ago, Hughdowd said: we will need one of those type of managers just to keep us up ... Getting other teams promoted shows that they know what is needed in this league... I’m sorry but jos doesn’t Well he came in and kept up last season when we looked like we were on a one way ticket to division 3. And we're currently sat 14th. Despite not being able to spend anything or (for various reasons) being able to pick our best players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughdowd Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Lord Snooty said: I forgot about promotion before the season started. I just thought that's what you might have been suggesting as you've been mentioning their promotion records. Well he came in and kept up last season when we looked like we were on a one way ticket to division 3. And we're currently sat 14th. Despite not being able to spend anything or (for various reasons) being able to pick our best players. Sunderland and burton we shocking last season so there was only one place to worry about .. this season will be totally different... that’s what is worrying a lot of fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brando Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Mickjj said: He seems to manoeuvre his players in and out of the team and position each game and mix up his tactics too But I agree with what you are saying m'lud. if the funds aren't there it's man management with what's available,thats why people like Warnock,Mcarthy Dean Smith (at Brentford)are priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brando Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, brando said: if the funds aren't there it's man management with what's available,thats why people like Warnock,Mcarthy Dean Smith (at Brentford)are priceless when at Brentford that should read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Too many lame excuses being offered up here We have plenty of talent available, to mount a promotion challenge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsheri Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 hours ago, MrTacoSWFC said: I think it's safe to say, we will be a mid table team for a couple of seasons... unless we punch above our weight. We are in a mess that can be put right but not over night or by bringing a new manager as we have no money to spend. Start reshaping next season... spend about more season after and see what happens. I'd be delighted with mid table this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now