Embargo...

[SiJ]

3 minutes ago, nethertonowl said:

That s right I ‘ll come on here and name my source , and betray a confidence just to shut you up. 

 

Should I post my account number and pin code too! 

 

I dont post loads and have positive rating suggests , that most others think I am sensible and might just be some body who does get info from inside the club. Not from down the pub. 

 

 

I have a positive post rating and get called a tosspot most days, so I wouldn't put too much into that. 

 

Not asking you to name your source, but you still can't even name what type of source. 

 

Needless to say, I'm concerned if people from within the club are just leaking stuff to random blokes like yourself. 

[SiJ]

2 minutes ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

 

I'm just waiting for Sij to come and rip the clubs accounts to pieces and say the're wrong

Well, you'll be waiting along time then. 

 

See you're trying to get personal again. 

 

Classic Grandad, I mean Hillsborough Mole. 

[Guest Hillsborough Mole]

1 minute ago, SiJ said:

Well, you'll be waiting along time then. 

 

See you're trying to get personal again. 

 

Classic Grandad, I mean Hillsborough Mole. 

 

Bless ya

 

You need to climb off your high horse mate. You get pretty personal with pretty much everybody who doesnt agree with you.

 

Take a chill pill

[SiJ]

Plus, I'm not disputing the mess were in...

 

I'm merely questioning a pretty bold claim concerning a mass exodus of the entire first team squad. 

 

I know some people are falling over themselves to tell us how much they know, how everything is going t*ts up and how anyone who poses questions is ignorant. 

[bladeshater]

1 minute ago, SiJ said:

I have a positive post rating and get called a tosspot most days, so I wouldn't put too much into that. 

 

Not asking you to name your source, but you still can't even name what type of source. 

 

Needless to say, I'm concerned if people from within the club are just leaking stuff to random blokes like yourself. 

It doesn't pal I have two people I know really well both in decent jobs at wednesday and it's very rare they come out with information 

[southportdc]

13 minutes ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

I can see there is still some disbelief that we are where we are. 

 

Lets assume that last season (given that we didnt remove any costs from our salaries, and only added to them with Rhodes (wages & transfer fee), Van Aken (wages & transfer fee), Pelepussy(wages & transfer fee) & paying off Carlos) - but lets assume and give the club the absolute benefit of the doubt that we did not increase our losses from the season before (which were £20.765m). Lets say last season we lost £20m (to keep things simple)... This is what we'd be looking at as an assessment of our 3 season accumulated losses

 

Ive put last seasons £20m loss in red - but you can clearly see the net effect of that as 3 seasons accumulated losses of £50.52m (don't forget thats not the full amount thats assessed as investment in stadium/academy is deducted - although the figures Ive seen for this tend to be circa £1.5m per season for Championship clubs)... so you could knock £4.5m off that figure (which means we are still over FFP losses - but only just - which might be why weve been able to negotiate some time to avoid an embargo.

 

Now its clear we are on a cost cutting drive. Loovens and Wallace already gone - Hunt & Rhodes wages also gone (with £1.5m in for Hunt)... Lets say we manage to offload another player before the start of the season - and we manage to get this seasons loss to £10m... That STILL means that next seasons accumulated losses will be £50.7m - meaning that we shouldn't just expect to be taking a back seat this year - but next season too. You can see that if we can reduce our losses to £10m for the foreseeable we will be back under the FFP guidelines (and able to invest again) in 2021.

 

I wouldn't be expecting us to 'splash the cash' again for quite some time. THIS is why we arent signing anybody, this is why the Chairman needs to improve revenues (Club 1867/memberships etc)... 

 

We are in a financial mess.

 

 

 

 

All true and fairly straightforward and all, but this also answers the original question of the thread in that - assuming the EFL are applying their rules and starting embargoes from the January after the accounting period that goes aver the limit - we won't be in an embargo until January 2019.

 

As you say, this seems to be a self-imposed restriction to bring losses back under control (the other option being to blast it for this summer then hold off until 2022).

[punkyhorrors]

http://priceoffootball.com/tag/sheffield-wednesday/ The price of football does a great job explaining our current ffp and says in that the manager will have no wriggle room for the summer transfer window which is showing. I Kind of like that DC is looking at the club as what it is a business not throwing money at the club like his is plaything. He running the club as a business as that what it is I think people forget that. If we are under an embargo let the kids step up and see what happens there no point in having a youth set up if they're never going to get first-team football. We have shown in the past that we got some good youth player. 

[southportdc]

36 minutes ago, nethertonowl said:

We didn’t go abroad for pre season, there is fizz all in the club shop. 

 

I'm not sure these count for FFP. If it's due to money reasons we stayed at home this summer and don't stock the club shop (which anyway would return a profit for FFP), that's a whole new level of concerning as it implies the club simply can;t afford it.

 

I don't think we're there yet, I think Jos didn't want to go abroad and the club shop is just permanently poo.

[nethertonowl]

9 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I have a positive post rating and get called a tosspot most days, so I wouldn't put too much into that. 

 

Not asking you to name your source, but you still can't even name what type of source. 

 

Needless to say, I'm concerned if people from within the club are just leaking stuff to random blokes like yourself. 

Not random that’s the point, call it professional connections if it makes you feel better or friendships . 

[Guest Hillsborough Mole]

2 minutes ago, southportdc said:

 

All true and fairly straightforward and all, but this also answers the original question of the thread in that - assuming the EFL are applying their rules and starting embargoes from the January after the accounting period that goes aver the limit - we won't be in an embargo until January 2019.

 

As you say, this seems to be a self-imposed restriction to bring losses back under control (the other option being to blast it for this summer then hold off until 2022).

 

But - borrowing from another thread - surely that means that the investment is being reduced (not being maintained at previous levels to justify the high ticket prices)

[morley]

39 minutes ago, nethertonowl said:

You must be cross eyed mate, you can’t see past the end of your nose, Ask yourself why, Jos said lower league and kids will be only signings, DC and everybody else had said we are close to FFP ( or whatever it’s called now). We haven’t signed one single player this summer, 8 from last year squad have gone. ( including kids loans etc)

We didn’t go abroad for pre season, there is fizz all in the club shop. 

Huge ticket prices.  Club 1867, and long term multi year season tickets . All designed to get money into club up front. 

People like Nixon suggesting we are in trouble, but you know better,

 

I work in a role which provides me with an insight into football contracts etc, I have know past and present Wednesday players, and we are in trouble. So yes if it’s voices in my head and it gets you a crack at somebody else fine . Me I live in the real world I am told we are screwed and It wee wees me off, 

Mulit year season tickets are all about cash flow not FFP matters but unfortunately, other than that technicality, I think you're bang on the money

[Standidno]

Had 3 years go at it, a proper go and failed. Makes absolute sense that we need to bottom out with no cash. I can't fathom why people cant get there head around it. The naive few eh?!

 

It's like the old days. No money.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, nethertonowl said:

You must be cross eyed mate, you can’t see past the end of your nose, Ask yourself why, Jos said lower league and kids will be only signings, DC and everybody else had said we are close to FFP ( or whatever it’s called now). We haven’t signed one single player this summer, 8 from last year squad have gone. ( including kids loans etc)

We didn’t go abroad for pre season, there is fizz all in the club shop. 

Huge ticket prices.  Club 1867, and long term multi year season tickets . All designed to get money into club up front. 

People like Nixon suggesting we are in trouble, but you know better,

 

I work in a role which provides me with an insight into football contracts etc, I have know past and present Wednesday players, and we are in trouble. So yes if it’s voices in my head and it gets you a crack at somebody else fine . Me I live in the real world I am told we are screwed and It wee wees me off, 

 

Not getting involved in the rest but we didn’t go abroad because Jos said it was counterproductive and he didn’t think it was the best way to prepare,  but I’m sure that won’t stop someone turning it into something it wasn’t 

[morley]

7 minutes ago, southportdc said:

 

I'm not sure these count for FFP. If it's due to money reasons we stayed at home this summer and don't stock the club shop (which anyway would return a profit for FFP), that's a whole new level of concerning as it implies the club simply can;t afford it.

 

I don't think we're there yet, I think Jos didn't want to go abroad and the club shop is just permanently poo.

Or maybe we don't have the cash to pay for foreign trips and stock for the shop because the previously sold multi year season ticket money is no longer in the bank?

 

Just a question. I know nowt.

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

3 hours ago, Cosby Blunkett said:

Being married I'm under an official fanny embargo.

 

If I wasn't married I wouldn't be able to attract a woman anyway.

 

Not sure there's much difference.

 

 

The odd Brazilian may be possible

[spike1867]

22 minutes ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

 

I'm just waiting for Sij to come and rip the clubs accounts to pieces and say the're wrong

 

I'm certainly not going to do that mate cos I know sweet FA about accounting.  Can you answer me this to the best of your ability please mate?  Is there anything in the 2017 figures that made that figure so much higher? Apart from the incoming transfers, did we pay off anything, or anybody's contracts that instead of being spread out over the length of the contract, meant they suddenly appeared on the accounts as a loss? I'm thinking the likes of Urby and McGugan, Lachman etc, etc.

 

I totted up.....and please excuse the figures but I'm going on what seems to be somewhere in the ball park of what was either reported or accepted as being normal.

Fees

Hunt 1.6m

Rhodes 1.5m (reported)

 

Wages

Hunt 15,000 x 52 = 780,000

Rhodes 30,000 x 52 = 1,560,000

Loovens (Club captain) 20,000 x 52 = 1,000,000

Venancio 10,000 x 52 = 520,000

Wallace 15,000 x 52 = 780,000

Kean ??? 5,000 x 52 = 250,000

 

Total=7.99m

 

Going by the figures you posted for cumulative losses, if we take it that we are looking at losses of 50m, minus the 4.5m infrastructure/academy, leaving a projected loss of around 46m, and we reduce the outgoings down by the above 7.99m, taking us down to projected losses of around 38m.  That means we have managed to fall within the FFP limits but as you say, leaves us without a pot to p#ss in?  Or at least until we generate some revenue from elsewhere?

 

Please don't shoot me for my flawed understanding, but I'm trying to work out if what we've done should be enough, or do we have to keep cutting?

[southportdc]

9 minutes ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

 

But - borrowing from another thread - surely that means that the investment is being reduced (not being maintained at previous levels to justify the high ticket prices)

 

I'm not sure how they account for it tbh. If the transfer fees are spread out over the course of the contract in accounting (like they are for FFP), then I think we'll still be paying for most of the big transfers from the past two years. It means that investment isn't going up, for sure, but it could well by that Chansiri is still investing to cover past transfers to about the same level he was last year. 

 

Won't know til we see the accounts I suppose. 

 

1 minute ago, morley said:

Or maybe we don't have the cash to pay for foreign trips and stock for the shop because the previously sold multi year season ticket money is no longer in the bank?

 

Just a question. I know nowt.

 

It's possible, but if we're unable to afford things that aren't covered by FFP, then it means we're running out of money, which is a bigger worry than FFP (an artificial limit on spending).

 

I don't think there's been any evidence of that in other areas.

[pazowl55]

Said it from the start and I will say it now if the top names were leaving they would be gone already. 

Am I right in thinking we didn't make 1 sub the other day in the friendly when 7 academy lads were on the bench. ( fringe player ones, barely feature at all probably) 

Now if we were selling on all our best players don't you think Jos would have wanted to take a look at some of these u23 players not leave them all on the bench.

 

[Jim]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

So let's get this straight

ALL journalists, commentators, radio stations, papers, guest commentators etc are ALL against Sheffield Wednesday for some reason?

And it just happens to coincide with us not doing very well and being a bit skint?

They're just sticking the boot in

Even ex players and people in the media who are Wednesday fans - all just booting us in the face?

Why on EARTH would they all do that all at once all the time?

 

I think they have. You don’t think they have been. Fair enough. Personally I think the Local Media have been far more negative during the Chansiri Era then they ever were during the Allen Era for instance when they had more than enough to be negative about but they daren’t upset dear old Dave where they don’t seem to have a problem stirring it with regards to Chansiri.

 

As for the examples of the fans holding us back thing, you asked for

 

Ticket prices are an issue, I get that but it’s obvious why he’s put the prices up, FFP. We struggle to raise enough revenue FFP bites us on the ar$e then the fans are up in arms because there’s no signings. An example where Chansiri can’t win either way.

 

Forrestieri, the other night loses his rag because he’s been kicked from pillar to post and then you get some fans say he’s trying to engineer a move. By getting suspended? That’s going to help him

get a move isn’t it?

 

The uproar over the kit. Stripes, where’s our Stripes. The reaction was well over the top. It’s not as if the change in shirts or badge hadn’t given a nod to our history and history tells you it’s never for long as the return to stripes this season shows.

 

I just think the fanbase is just bogged down by the near 20 years outside the top flight and is more aggressive, negative and agitated as a result.

 

All the above aren’t fact, it’s just my opinion and in my view everyone is entitled to one. I don’t particularly care if people disagree with me or not. It’s just a view I’ve formed following the club for too many years that I can remember.

 

 

[Guest Hillsborough Mole]

10 minutes ago, spike1867 said:

 

I'm certainly not going to do that mate cos I know sweet FA about accounting.  Can you answer me this to the best of your ability please mate?  Is there anything in the 2017 figures that made that figure so much higher? Apart from the incoming transfers, did we pay off anything, or anybody's contracts that instead of being spread out over the length of the contract, meant they suddenly appeared on the accounts as a loss? I'm thinking the likes of Urby and McGugan, Lachman etc, etc.

 

I totted up.....and please excuse the figures but I'm going on what seems to be somewhere in the ball park of what was either reported or accepted as being normal.

Fees

Hunt 1.6m

Rhodes 1.5m (reported)

 

Wages

Hunt 15,000 x 52 = 780,000

Rhodes 30,000 x 52 = 1,560,000

Loovens (Club captain) 20,000 x 52 = 1,000,000

Venancio 10,000 x 52 = 520,000

Wallace 15,000 x 52 = 780,000

Kean ??? 5,000 x 52 = 250,000

 

Total=7.99m

 

Going by the figures you posted for cumulative losses, if we take it that we are looking at losses of 50m, minus the 4.5m infrastructure/academy, leaving a projected loss of around 46m, and we reduce the outgoings down by the above 7.99m, taking us down to projected losses of around 38m.  That means we have managed to fall within the FFP limits but as you say, leaves us without a pot to p#ss in?  Or at least until we generate some revenue from elsewhere?

 

Please don't shoot me for my flawed understanding, but I'm trying to work out if what we've done should be enough, or do we have to keep cutting?

 

 

Wouldn't dream of shooting you down for it - our wages went up by £8.8m in just one season - which accounts for 80% of the increase in our losses