SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY - ACCOUNTS AND FFP THREAD

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, StudentOwl said:

I won't comment on whether it was a good decision or not

 

The heavy rumours were that Palmer left because he didn't feel like he could make any decisions and Chansiri was deciding 99% of what was going off in regards to what should have been his job. This is the same Chansiri that has overseen our outgoings snowball to very high levels without any obvious strategy to mitigate them (It remains to be seen what the outcome of that will be and whether things are as bad as the first appear... but upon first looking it doesn't look good). Palmer had a good reputation in the game before coming here. 

 

How much of Palmer's failings here can be attributed to Chansiri is, I'd imagine, open to interpretation. It will all depend on what you think of Chansiri's record so far and how much credence you give to the rumours that regularly appear on here that he's micromanaging everything. In lieu of hard facts, that'll be up to individual posters. 

 

Only we could finally get more money than we've ever dreamed of, get Mr Bean as Chairman, spunk the lot, and be relegated in our anniversary celebration year.

 

Wake me up when the nightmares over.

[striker]

FFP or P&S whatever it is called is testicles anyway. Not much I can do as a fan, already pay stupid ticket prices, buy overpriced crap from the club shop and in the ground on matchdays.

 

DC made the decisions , wasted money and will now take a lot more money to rectify the clusterfuck the he allowed CC to create.

 

DC asked my opinion about ticket pricing and my understanding is that if I continued to be financially raped for a ticket investment would continue, so expect  £5-£10m worth of signings for next season, dont mind if we sell or release a few to balance the books.

 

DC's club, his responsibility to manage FFP / P&S and meet fans expectations to put out a top 2 promotion contending team next year.

 

You'd like to think as the shrewd businessman we are repeatedly assured he is has a plan in place, so will see what happens.

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, Hughthecone said:

The spelling police are out in force today.I am not moaning just stating a fact imo.

 

What are your thoughts on the accounts ?

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Hughthecone said:

The spelling police are out in force today.I am not moaning just stating a fact imo.

 

I'm not talking about your spelling at all

Just saying you've posted a right whinge but haven't explained it and haven't gone on to share your knowledge or wisdom

Come on.. don't just post attacks on others on here, that's not what we want or do. Instead tell us what you know and give us the details that people might not know that you do.

 

[fred mciver]

14 minutes ago, modboy said:

Our non match day income is our Achilles compared to many other clubs, probably including Sheff utd.

That's only left heal. On right (kicking) foot, transfer 'policy' and wages have amputated us. 

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, fred mciver said:

That's only left heal. On right (kicking) foot, transfer 'policy' and wages have amputated us. 

 

Just call us Stumpy.

 

[fred mciver]

35 minutes ago, just visiting said:

15/16 accounts are available on line on Google, 16/17 accounts are due to be published end of month and the forecast will already be submitted to the FL for 17/18.

Come on mate, Chansiri's gone all fan but at least his intentions were good.

 

Like Blades' assets, bet you can't tell me who BENEFICIAL owners of Thorpe Arch and ground are, together with forward income loans, IP, and probably players.

 

And if EU ever looked at state aid you'd got from Leeds Council, would make Real Madrid's government subsidies look good value.

 

Plus your 'recent' owner was a convicted Tax fraudster who thought yachts were VAT -free zones.   

 

 

[Guest timrud]

30.9 is the total losses, but certain losses don't count, so nobody knows the real figure.

[Bassetts Allsorts]

Seeking new investment seems like the obvious solution to me. Steve McClaren was at a recent home game and he’s reportedly heading up an investment group with “serious money”, so make of that what you will.

 

Are we that investable? The majority of the “debt” is owed to Chansiri, but it depends if he wants out or if he wants the equivalent of a Prince Abdullah to come in as co-owner.

 

Whatever happens, I’m sure we’ll find out how Chansiri is going to play this in the summer.

[Birley Owl 1867]

I reckon FFP wouldn't stand in a court of law.

[pazowl55]

didnt relise by extending the contracts of Reach and Joao it actually makes us better of next season for FFP.

[steelowl]

56 minutes ago, bigrbuk said:

 

Just on this bit, I seem to recall about 20 pages and as many hours ago, someone dug out something that said future player sales COULD be taken into consideration at their discrepancy. I wonder if we could have some future player sale pre-contracts written up and signed somewhere...

 

2+2 but the Hooper injury is never discussed and Hirst has been allowed back into the squad...

 

sat shaking my head at what possible ways forward there are  and how the 17-18 'projection' can avoid sanction

pre arranged sales might be one way 

 

what has to be considered and i dont think it's clear is when is a sanction / punishment  imposed next season or this anyone know?

because out of the 3 options I know about  fine/embargo/point deduction we certainly can't sustain a points penalty this year   

[room0035]

5 hours ago, McRightSide said:

Because they offered under half of that.

 

basically DC has had a right good go, it hasn’t worked and now we need to start plan B.

 

Like many clubs we are relying on the goodwill of our benefactor and owner.

 

One point to note that I haven’t seen made. The impact of our spending will last for a couple more years, meaning that even if we do go up...we’ve pretty much spent all the additional proceeds already.

 

A bit like when I start spending my bonus 3-months before it actually arrives 

The very point I have been making, these accounts are nearly a year out of date, we have sold no players the attendances have dropped we might have made £500k or so from the cup run but all other revenues are down, we still have as many players as we had on big wages, the loss for this season will be bigger than last and we could be looking at Debts of over £50m in 3 years of DC not good at all.

 

What ever the offer for Fessi I read derby offer 315m and Fulham even more in the region of £17m even if it was only £10m if we as a club knew we were as much in a black whole as we are we should have been looking to cash in on assets especially when said asset has now not played for 7 months but as continued to be paid £30-40,000 a week.

[Hughthecone]

22 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I'm not talking about your spelling at all

Just saying you've posted a right whinge but haven't explained it and haven't gone on to share your knowledge or wisdom

Come on.. don't just post attacks on others on here, that's not what we want or do. Instead tell us what you know and give us the details that people might not know that you do.

 

I am not attacking anyone and imo this thread should be about the financial status of the club not about wether players have got financial constraints ,so they are feigning injuries if this is so then something really amiss with our club.By the way sorry for the delay in replying but my iPad locked up.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Hughthecone said:

I am not attacking anyone and imo this thread should be about the financial status of the club not about wether players have got financial constraints ,so they are feigning injuries if this is so then something really amiss with our club.By the way sorry for the delay in replying but my iPad locked up.

 

No problem I just thought your post was a bit strange

It felt like a big group of people were stood in the street chatting about something and then someone (in this case yourself) bursts into the middle of the group shouting "YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!" and then runs off

 

 

[Hughthecone]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

No problem I just thought your post was a bit strange

It felt like a big group of people were stood in the street chatting about something and then someone (in this case yourself) bursts into the middle of the group shouting "YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!" and then runs off

 

 

Wouldn't do that simply cause I can't run.

[Guest mkowl]

1 hour ago, just visiting said:

15/16 accounts are available on line on Google, 16/17 accounts are due to be published end of month and the forecast will already be submitted to the FL for 17/18.

Yep a £9m loss which was after a 2m gain on player sales.

 

So until the next accounts are published I wouldn't get over confident you are ok 

[Hughthecone]

40 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

What are your thoughts on the accounts ?

To be fair not a lot ,I just leave the financial problems to the wife.Also sorry for delay in replying but IPad locked up.

[Hookowl]

15 minutes ago, room0035 said:

The very point I have been making, these accounts are nearly a year out of date, we have sold no players the attendances have dropped we might have made £500k or so from the cup run but all other revenues are down, we still have as many players as we had on big wages, the loss for this season will be bigger than last and we could be looking at Debts of over £50m in 3 years of DC not good at all.

 

What ever the offer for Fessi I read derby offer 315m and Fulham even more in the region of £17m even if it was only £10m if we as a club knew we were as much in a black whole as we are we should have been looking to cash in on assets especially when said asset has now not played for 7 months but as continued to be paid £30-40,000 a week.

 

Not necessarily because the cost of buying players is amortised, therefore this cost is spread over the length of contract and when the contract ends the value is nil.

Therefore if we have any players with contracts ending this year there will be no costs for this in next years accounts.

The only problem is I don't think we have many players falling into this category. 

[room0035]

2 hours ago, Pulcinella said:

So there we have it, £9.6 million loss in 2016 and £20.7 million in 2017... and the accounts are only published up to May 31st 2017. Goodness knows what they are in the current financial year. But with a limit of a total loss of £39 million over 3 years, we've only got £8.7 left to play with - and on May 31st last year we had a wage that would push us way beyond it.

 

How did we get here? Quite possibly - it was that first summer around the time of signing Steven Fletcher. It was a marquee signing at the time but a/ it blew our wage structure and b/ it was a long contract.

 

The problem is, no matter how good he is, he isn't our best player. And that meant that others who had a stronger reason to be considered our best player then had a stronger reason to renegotiate their contract - FF, Lees for example. And quite right too - because we didn't want to lose those players.

 

It also opened up the possibility of signing players like Jones & Boyd, adequate as they are, but I worry about their contracts and we're probably paying them much more than their value to the team.

 

Could this be one of the reasons Jos is bringing on the youngsters? Even if it were possible - and I don't see how we can - we'd have to have a very major clear out in summer to bring ourselves back in line.

 

As supporters, we have to be realistic about our expectations - even accepting that we'll be happy being a safe mid-table club for the next few years. That £20.7 million loss is not going to disappear off FFP for several more years - and we still don't know what 2018's figures will be.

 

There is an alternative - and that's going for it for one season. But that is incredibly risky. To do a Wolves, you have to sign extremely well. And we haven't shown we can do that. We tend to sign Premiership players at the end of their careers on high wages and long contracts. We need to sign the next generation - which makes the Hirst situation even more tragic. In the last transfer window we signed Pelupessy. The fee was appropriate in my opinion - and we don't seem to have thrown money away on that deal. If we were to really go for it we need proper quality younger players, well scouted, and players that really would make a difference.

 

The alternative is a culling of the squad like never before. And how to move players on that other teams are unlikely to want!

 

I suspect we're already planning for FFP and we need to think long-term to sign players that would actually get us through it - not players that will be ready to retire during it!

Mate I will make it very easy unless DC has put £20m in for the shirt and stadium sponsorship this season we have already broken PPF as this season loss will be as big as these accounts if not bigger.

 

We won't be able to sign players while under PPF, but we can sell them, any players coming in on frees or loan cannot be on more than £10,000 a week. 

 

So what I would be doing is getting Clare and Hirst sign to long term deals, if we keep them and develop them with 18 months of Championship football and they progress in the first team the way they have we could £10-15m+ of talent based on what Sheff Utd have had offered for Brooks and we could have two of them. They could be the sorting of FFP in 18 months time.

 

We need to find a way to get rid of Abdi, Matias, Fletcher, Rhodes, Jones - this will take £135k a week of the wage bill or £7m for the year not to mention we could get a few million in fees for Rhodes. We then need to offload the resource drainers we need players that can play at least 30+ games a season. The likes of Fox, Hunt, Hutch, Wallace, Loovens need dumping so youngsters coming through can be given a change.

 

We still need the senior pros of Westwood, Lees, Lee, Bannan, Reach, Fessi, Hooper to help develop those around them.

 

We can do ok with a small budget you only need look at Huddersfield for that with the correct loans and free agents we can move forward but it is whether we have the club infrastructure to do this.

 

The other issues is bring things in house, how much would we have made on shirts sales had we used say Puma, we would have saved the embarrassment of the shirt arrive 3 months late and most companies pay millions for the rights, have we made money on bring the catering in-house or would we have made more having contracts and say charging them 20% of their turnover or profits on the contracts. Without seeing the figures in depth who knows, the next is the very poorly managed Superstore would we be better selling/leasing it to a sport direct say we get a rental return again a percentage of all of the sales, we have no staffing costs or running cost. These are ideas but I hope before the club undertook any of they properly priced everything up.

 

The one other area i would love to know what it is is in the account the cost of sales of players wages is £36,199,000 but of this wages and costs of wages are £29,341,000 what is the cost of the other £6,895,000 it is not players fees or amortization so is it the running costs of the stadium or is there a hidden cost we don't know about but in last years account this mystery value was £6,958,000 so in two years nearly £14m on something anyone with more details I would be interest to know.