New manager

[mark1948]

2 hours ago, vulva said:

If it comes to it, and a new manager is required in the future, the mindset of fans needs to change. Gone are the days where you appoint a manager with a long term vision in mind. The likes of Ferguson and Wenger will never been seen again, where 1 man rules a club for decades. 

 

The future for managers in my opinion is short term, red Adair type appointments. We need to follow the model of Watford, Southampton and Chelsea, where they bring in a manager for a specific job, with a specific timeframe in mind. When that project is complete, move on, and appoint another manager to take the next step forward, with the skill set to move onto the next level. Watford are brilliant at this.

 

From the outside looking in, it looks like, a hire and fire strategy, but it's far more creative, This tactic keeps the manages motivated, players on their toes, and allows for flexibility if things go wrong. Players don't get 'connected' and 'chummy' with a manager which I think is one of the reasons why we have gone stale at S6. 

 

The issue at Hillsborough, unlike the above, is the lack of football structure behind it. If Carlos goes, we have to reshuffle, re recruit and reorganise most of the non playing staff. Southampton just change their head coach. Far more cost effective, and provides for better consistent throughout the club from youth level up.

if this truly works in football you would see it throughout business and industry. There are specialist managers in business and industry to manage projects. So what may be needed is a good old fashioned project manager or managers to sort out the departmental issues and hand them back in better shape.

[roaminowl]

Nothing motivates a Manager more than knowing he'll lose his job in a few months. 

[vulva]

1 hour ago, Muffinman said:

PS what exactly is the next level after winning the champions league? Presumably the inter galactic cup on your home planet, Uranus

Are you well?

[vulva]

1 hour ago, Muffinman said:

Complete rubbish. Nobody in business, in politics in any organisation is ushered out of the door if they are successful. And Red Adair only came in when the oil head was totally useless and dangerous. I don't know what planet you live on but try suggesting they increase the oxygen level.....your brain is shrinking and you are hallucinating

I'm not sure debating with the likes of you would be a valuable use of my time. 

[Lythamowl]

Does this mean pep's not coming after all......?

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

10 minutes ago, roaminowl said:

Nothing motivates a Manager more than knowing he'll lose his job in a few months. 

With a massive payoff.

[owlmanc]

44 minutes ago, Muffinman said:

They went when they failed. Even if the owners had short memories 

How did they "fail" they didn't even finish the following season 

[torryowl]

3 minutes ago, Andoverowl said:

With a massive payoff.

absolutely ...who wouldn't like to work for a couple of months and then sit with your feet up in the sun counting the golden handshake money .....you'd think clubs would learn that the average life span of a manager is about 15 months and yet they still go handing out 3 year contracts .

[Lord Snooty]

55 minutes ago, owlmanc said:

Well apart from Mourinho at Chelsea and Ranieri at Leicester 

 

Di Matteo. FA Cup and Champions League in same season...6 months and gone.

[torryowl]

gary megson rebuilds crap side in 6 months takes them to 3rd in the league ,beats bitterest & closest rivals ,signs best player we have in years and get the chance to play him in 1 game ....sacked 

[trevdi9]

reduce their daft wages same with players , and then they might realize they have to do their best for a living ,Reason i say that is because managers getting millions leaves them not so worried about where their next wage is coming from  so possibly may not try as hard as they could do ,but if on a lesser amount in wages

 then that might just change their outlook ,

Edited October 24, 2017 by trevdi9

[BRUCE LEE]

 

There's too much sentiment around managers

 

If we hadn't made such a mess of our recruitment structure then CC would have been sacked and we would be looking at a new coach going into the xmas run in

 

Now we're stuck plodding along in this current mess like it will miraculously solve itself

 

 

 

[I Love Sturrock]

There's certainly a time and a place for a manager staying for years if it's clear they have a long-term vision and are improving the team - like a Pochettino at Tottenham, for example.

 

However, I completely agree with you that sacking a manager seems to have become a dirty phrase in recent years amongst the management and journalism fraternities, who all ultimately look out for each other and perpetuate the myth that sacking a manager is always a bad thing. They love to trot out the fact that Alex Ferguson was about to be sacked until the Man Utd board showed patience, as if Ferguson isn't the 0.001% outlier of all managers.

 

Watford's owners have made a great success in recent years of switching the head coach when it has become stale. Zola's stint there got them to the play-off final, and they got rid of him a few months into the next season when it was obvious he wouldn't improve upon it. Sound familiar? They arrived at Jokanović the season after (after a couple more changes, admittedly) and got promoted automatically.

 

Karanka got Middlesbrough to the play-off final after struggles near relegation under Tony Mowbray, and got time from his board the season after because they were around the automatic places all season and the season-on-season improvement was clear to everyone. He rewarded this patience with automatic promotion at the end of that season.
 

In comparison, Carlos Carvalhal inherited a team from Stuart Gray that finished comfortably mid-table (13th) and included some very good players picked up for nothing by Gray, like Westwood, Lees, Loovens, Lee and Huchinson. Carlos had much more to spend on fees and wages that Gray ever did, and completed a good achievement by getting to the play-off final.

 

The next season, Carlos was given even more to spent on fees and wages and although there were big-spenders in the league like Newcastle and Norwich, we were comfortably at the top table with the fees on Reach, Abdi, Pudil, Fox and Winnall and wages on Fletcher, Rhodes, Emmanuelsson, Buckley and McManaman, not to mention massive new contracts for Lees, Forestieri, Westwood, Lee and Hutcinson. Although we eventually finished 4th thanks to a good run at the end of the season, for the most part it was difficult to see how Carlos was improving us. These concerns were fully realised in the play-offs, where a Huddersfield team with no money showed up our head coach's negative approach to big games.

 

At this point with Carlos after another play-off disappointment with the same style and the same mistakes, other teams in the past saw there was going to be no improvement and made a change. We didn't. In fact, we gave Carlos a brand new contract and allowed him to spend even more fees (Rhodes for £8m and Van Aken for £4m) and wages (Boyd on a big contract). Before anyone starts about Chansiri buying him players and Doyen Sports being involved, I'd argue that as well as the numerous times Carlos has admitted he identifies players himself (remember his list of 200 centre-halves?), Van Aken and Boyd have got 'Carlos Carvalhal player' written all over them. They suit his preferred style of play to a tee. Van Aken's a defender who's good on the ball and allows moves to be started from the centre-backs, and Boyd's a winger who isn't fast or tricky but can work hard and interchage with midfielders in the middle.

 

So with all this in mind, is it that unsurprising that Carlos isn't delivering an improvement this season? Where other clubs saw the writing on the wall and acted, our unqualified support at the same time is going to lead to disaster. We allowed Carlos to be the one to benefit from the Chairman's spending, and now we're in trouble because Carlos has been found out and we can't spend our way out of it.

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

1 minute ago, I Love Sturrock said:

There's certainly a time and a place for a manager staying for years if it's clear they have a long-term vision and are improving the team - like a Pochettino at Tottenham, for example.

 

However, I completely agree with you that sacking a manager seems to have become a dirty phrase in recent years amongst the management and journalism fraternities, who all ultimately look out for each other and perpetuate the myth that sacking a manager is always a bad thing. They love to trot out the fact that Alex Ferguson was about to be sacked until the Man Utd board showed patience, as if Ferguson isn't the 0.001% outlier of all managers.

 

Watford's owners have made a great success in recent years of switching the head coach when it has become stale. Zola's stint there got them to the play-off final, and they got rid of him a few months into the next season when it was obvious he wouldn't improve upon it. Sound familiar? They arrived at Jokanović the season after (after a couple more changes, admittedly) and got promoted automatically.

 

Karanka got Middlesbrough to the play-off final after struggles near relegation under Tony Mowbray, and got time from his board the season after because they were around the automatic places all season and the season-on-season improvement was clear to everyone. He rewarded this patience with automatic promotion at the end of that season.
 

In comparison, Carlos Carvalhal inherited a team from Stuart Gray that finished comfortably mid-table (13th) and included some very good players picked up for nothing by Gray, like Westwood, Lees, Loovens, Lee and Huchinson. Carlos had much more to spend on fees and wages that Gray ever did, and completed a good achievement by getting to the play-off final.

 

The next season, Carlos was given even more to spent on fees and wages and although there were big-spenders in the league like Newcastle and Norwich, we were comfortably at the top table with the fees on Reach, Abdi, Pudil, Fox and Winnall and wages on Fletcher, Rhodes, Emmanuelsson, Buckley and McManaman, not to mention massive new contracts for Lees, Forestieri, Westwood, Lee and Hutcinson. Although we eventually finished 4th thanks to a good run at the end of the season, for the most part it was difficult to see how Carlos was improving us. These concerns were fully realised in the play-offs, where a Huddersfield team with no money showed up our head coach's negative approach to big games.

 

At this point with Carlos after another play-off disappointment with the same style and the same mistakes, other teams in the past saw there was going to be no improvement and made a change. We didn't. In fact, we gave Carlos a brand new contract and allowed him to spend even more fees (Rhodes for £8m and Van Aken for £4m) and wages (Boyd on a big contract). Before anyone starts about Chansiri buying him players and Doyen Sports being involved, I'd argue that as well as the numerous times Carlos has admitted he identifies players himself (remember his list of 200 centre-halves?), Van Aken and Boyd have got 'Carlos Carvalhal player' written all over them. They suit his preferred style of play to a tee. Van Aken's a defender who's good on the ball and allows moves to be started from the centre-backs, and Boyd's a winger who isn't fast or tricky but can work hard and interchage with midfielders in the middle.

 

So with all this in mind, is it that unsurprising that Carlos isn't delivering an improvement this season? Where other clubs saw the writing on the wall and acted, our unqualified support at the same time is going to lead to disaster. We allowed Carlos to be the one to benefit from the Chairman's spending, and now we're in trouble because Carlos has been found out and we can't spend our way out of it.

 

 

TLDR - I'm guessing a long winded Carlos bash? 

[I Love Sturrock]

6 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

 

TLDR - I'm guessing a long winded Carlos bash? 

 

Is there a negative Carlos post you haven't replied to on this forum with your own particular brand of effluent?

 

Here's the Samaritans number for you when we sack him: https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you/contact-us

Edited October 24, 2017 by I Love Sturrock

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

4 minutes ago, I Love Sturrock said:

 

Is there a negative Carlos post you haven't replied to on this forum with your own particular brand of effluent?

 

Here's the Samaritans number for you when we sack him: https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you/contact-us

 

How is what I said effluent? 

 

It's yet another Carlos out thread, I want him to stay so I will join in the forum.

 

Can you please forward me threads I can participate in so you don't get upset again deary.  

[jp1981]

Which Managers /Coaches are under Doyen Sports? 

 

One of them will be our next manager. 

 

I think Diego Simeone is on their books.

[Bluestripe]

Couldnt agree more with OP

Alongside the changing trends mentioned in OP, we see Koeman sacked after Everton invested 160 mill to compete - a lesson if ever there was one it’s just not about big money - just as important is to identify the right “fit” (great player management/relationships) and that is nowhere as easy as it sounds.

Why are modest-sized clubs able to do so well....Eddie Howe for Bournemouth, Sean Dyche for Burnley the German guy for Hudds etc..

i wouldn’t include Wilder, because he hasn’t yet achieved anything in Championship or higher.

 

[Mid Wicket]

4 hours ago, torres said:

To be fair Wenger has been given 10 years too long and nowadays Ferguson wouldn't have been given the 3 year period he started with (plus he was handed 6 of the best youth players we've seen for 50 years)

 

I think about 12-18 months most managers just lose the plot 

 

A good manager is defined by his signings and most managers after their initial period sign players that don't improve their first team 

 

 

I agree with you on Wenger but Ferguson was one of the cleverest managers  he would always change his coaching staff every few years to freshen things up in the back room as well as freshen his squad and move players out.

 

[Sgt Wednesday]

CC is the manager and he will be the man everyone looks at when things are going well and exactly the same if things aren't going so well.

 

He's had a very good go at it but we are now looking at CCs squad of players and it simply isn't good enough to get us up.

 

Or

 

CC is not tactically flexible enough to get the best out of the players he's been given.

 

 

This squad of players will not get promoted with CC in charge.

 

 

We either change the manager now and try and get the season going with a manager who gets a team playing the way that suits the players, not the same set up every week, regardless.

 

or

 

We give CC another transfer window to put right the mistakes he's made over the last 2 seasons and allow him to bring in players that will complement how we want to play.

 

 

One of the decisions can change our season around tomorrow, one of them means we potentially wait till Feb 18.