Bluesteel Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Winger, DM, centre half. Potentially some pace up top but Winnall deserves a crack first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 5 hours ago, gurujuan said: The problem is, you can't just add two wingers and a centre back, although I agree we may need them. We don't have a central midfield pairing that would allow us to play with two wingers playing wide. Without the wingers tucking in, Lee and Bannan are two lightweight, we'd be overrun. Hutchinson and Lee would give us more bite, but would it be creative enough Ditto Hutchinson and Bannan. If we are going to play 4-4-2, then we need to get different midfield options, as well as wingers and a centre back. Maybe even a decent strike partner who brings the best out of Hooper or Rhodes. If you want to upgrade our full backs, then we are already looking at major investment and upheaval again Do we need that? Why are people looking for a new winning formula? We had one, but Carlos chose to throw it away. All we need to do us go back to it. But not with Carlos. Cos he will revert back to 3 CMs and FF as striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypandy Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Based on the current squad, one thing we seem to lack is a Centre Half who looks comfortable bringing the ball out, both seem to be at a loss what to do and mostly end up hitting longer hopeful balls, I would put Hutch back there thus also freeing up the centre mid for Lee/Bannan, and not trying to shoehorn players in which unbalances the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike312 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Craig Noone is being released by Cardiff. Always thought he was a good solid winger at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnsleyOwl96 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, mike312 said: Craig Noone is being released by Cardiff. Always thought he was a good solid winger at this level. If he's being released by Cardiff surely we can do better? Probably the kind of Stuart gray era signing, we should be aiming for pace and goals out wide with what we can afford. No one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheowls Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 hour ago, andypandy said: Based on the current squad, one thing we seem to lack is a Centre Half who looks comfortable bringing the ball out, both seem to be at a loss what to do and mostly end up hitting longer hopeful balls, I would put Hutch back there thus also freeing up the centre mid for Lee/Bannan, and not trying to shoehorn players in which unbalances the side. Tbf everytime Lees ran out with the ball last night, everyone ran away from him. He didnt have a choice but to hit a long diagonal. Unless that was a plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hack-Abusi Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 18/05/2017 at 15:38, BarnsleyOwl96 said: If he's being released by Cardiff surely we can do better? Probably the kind of Stuart gray era signing, we should be aiming for pace and goals out wide with what we can afford. No one Don't think though that being released means that he's guff or what not a lot of first team players, number 1 goalies, captains, mainstays are getting released etc due to contractual issues, change of scenery, wanting to progress etc. He could turn out to be a really useful signing. I thought Noone was decent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osowl Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I agree with the OP, apart from that I think CC should stay. The manager has to have the tools available to suit his plan A, B & C in this league, 46 games. Having a large squad is great, but to get Auto you need different top quality attacking options to go with a strong defence. We have the back four (Despite Owlstalk's expert opinions, our defence only conceded 45 goals vs Newcastle 40). Agree with a new CB as Loovens isn't up to a full season. We have the forward line (Rhodes, Hooper, Winnall and Fletcher) with proven goal scorers. We have the midfield (Bannan, Lee, Abdi, Hutchinson) with quality and commitment. We do not have the wingers (Forestieri sulks, Reach is a LB, Wallace is slow, Mattias I had high hopes for). If we're serious, which of our wide players would the opposition fear? Apart from Forestieri on his day, none would rate a mention in the team talk would they? Rhodes/Hooper/Bannan/Lee would though wouldn't they? So to me, armchair fan, we need quality on both of the wings. If we have the calibre (FFP permitting) of attack minded wingers that we have up front and in the centre, that is the missing piece. Then we wouldn't need to see lineups with Bannan out wide, or the likes of Jones in the centre where we all complain that we get bogged down in midfield etc. We made the playoff's 2 years running, 3 players of absolute quality is between us an HMSPTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) On 18 May 2017 at 14:06, Holmowl said: Why are people looking for a new winning formula? We had one, but Carlos chose to throw it away. All we need to do us go back to it. But not with Carlos. Cos he will revert back to 3 CMs and FF as striker. I was just pointing out why it's not as simple as just adding two "proper" wingers and a centre back We are capable of grinding out results, our league position proved that. Replacing the two very narrow wingers that we currently employ with a more orthodox pair, would leave us too vulnerable in midfield We would be overrun. If we want to play that way, then we need to change the midfield personnel Edited May 23, 2017 by gurujuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, gurujuan said: I was just pointing out why it's not as simple as just adding two "proper" wingers and a centre back We are capable of grinding out results, our league position proved that. Replacing the two very narrow wingers that we currently employ with a more orthodox pair, would leave us too vulnerable in midfield We would be overrun. If we want to play that way, then we need to change the midfield personnel I some times disagree but this is spot on!! If you change your style / personal to focus on another area, obviously you lose the attribute they were providing. Thats not guaranteed to cost us goals, but it certainly adds more pressure to the midfield/defense. The defense has been good under CC (as it was under Gray) but largely due to playing a defensive set up (last season and Gray) or due to playing an extra defensive midfielder at sacrifice of a wide player. Take that away and who knows!?! At the beginning of last season I seem to remember more free flowing football but for what ever reason or shots not going in and being hit on the counter. Maybe I'm imagining that but we started picking more points and results up after s switch and grinding them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osowl Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Philb125 said: I some times disagree but this is spot on!! If you change your style / personal to focus on another area, obviously you lose the attribute they were providing. Thats not guaranteed to cost us goals, but it certainly adds more pressure to the midfield/defense. The defense has been good under CC (as it was under Gray) but largely due to playing a defensive set up (last season and Gray) or due to playing an extra defensive midfielder at sacrifice of a wide player. Take that away and who knows!?! At the beginning of last season I seem to remember more free flowing football but for what ever reason or shots not going in and being hit on the counter. Maybe I'm imagining that but we started picking more points and results up after s switch and grinding them out. Fair point. It's natural when someone is going to push out wide on a run, then it's going to create space for the opposition, and leave us somewhat exposed when they lose the ball. The alternative, is not using the width and instead accepting that you get stuck in traffic without much of an outlet. Great if are able to keep hold of the ball, but often to do that you end up dropping back which creates its own pressure when you lose the ball closer to your own goal. At least with quality options on the flanks, your game plan should be trying to push further up the field so that when you lose the ball, you are not under as much pressure. Swings and roundabouts as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Can I just add, that the way we played it last season, wouldn't have been my choice Those that favour that way, and the success that it brought, should think about ways of enhancing the system. It seems to me, the only benefit of having proper wingers in this system, would be minimal, and probably confined to rare appearances from the bench If you want to play with proper wingers, you have to change a whole lot more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Played 3 CMs and only one winger mostly to game 20, Reading away:- 31 points - 1.5 per game. 23 goals - 1.15 per game The final 25 games we played 2 wingers and 2 CMs mostly:- 50 points - 2 per game 37 goals - 1.48 per game Neither Abdi, nor Bannan, nor Lee should have played wide. You can pick out the odd game where it worked, but over a season it is crystal clear that it was a mistake. Our form over 25 games was automatic promotion level. The wingers we have were clearly good enough. They don't have to be Ryan Giggs and David Beckham. Reach, Wallace and FF were easily good enough. Our wingers are more wide midfielders, and it works so well. Had Carlos realised that balance was important earlier than game 21 we could be in the Prem now. Had he kept that balance last week we would have had Wembley tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) At the end of the day, we were neither good enough, nor consistent enough to have been promoted automatically For all those good runs of results, we had too many disappointing runs. Finishing the season without a win in three, following six consecutive wins, was our season in a nutshell Not far off, but a bit short when it comes to an automatic place. The question is, how do we push on Edited May 23, 2017 by gurujuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, gurujuan said: At the end of the day, we were neither good enough, nor consistent enough to have been promoted automatically For all those good runs of results, we had too many disappointing runs. Finishing the season without a win in three, following six consecutive wins, was our season in a nutshell Not far off, but a bit short when it comes to an automatic place. The question is, how do we push on Cant agree. First, ignore the Fulham friendly. You talk about "good runs of results". 25 games is not a run, it's over half a season. One winger got us 7th by game 20. Two wingers had us as top team over 25 games. Yet we are not good enough to get promoted playing two wingers? Doesn't make sense. Just stick to the flipping approach that saw us even better than Brighton and Newcastle over a sustained period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlmark Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) On 5/18/2017 at 14:30, andypandy said: Based on the current squad, one thing we seem to lack is a Centre Half who looks comfortable bringing the ball out, both seem to be at a loss what to do and mostly end up hitting longer hopeful balls, I would put Hutch back there thus also freeing up the centre mid for Lee/Bannan, and not trying to shoehorn players in which unbalances the side. Agree that we need a centre half for more competition. Think it is a bit harsh on Lees and Loovens as there is never anyone forward to receive the ball. I have never seen such a static midfield when our defenders have the ball; it is also the same when we have a throw-in. Defenders with ball and throw-ins = Midfield Mannequin Challenge. Edited May 23, 2017 by owlmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Internationowl Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jamie_W said: And a right back... neither Palmer or Hunt are reliable enough. Yeh, yeh.. a right back aswell of course! But apart from a right back, a left back, a centre half, two wingers, a box-to-box midfielder, a striker that takes penalties, an aqueduct and a manager.. what did the Romans.. I mean.. what do Sheffield Wednesday need to get promoted?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulture_squadron Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 On 18/05/2017 at 08:35, BD2OWL said: I have been saying for a while we need a Diame type midfielder. I have no doubt we will lose a few this summer, need to move on the manager pretty quick so he can sort the wheat from the chaff. I just hope we can keep hold of the likes of Lee and Lees. Why Diame? He seems a No 10 to me and we have a No 10 in Abdi, plus Hooper has shown he can play there as well. Box to box is what we need if we're sticking with 442. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 On 2017-5-18 at 08:26, BD2OWL said: And a manager. Should see us ok next season. You cannot have the likes of Rhodes, Fletcher & Winnall in the side and put one decent cross a game in. And the box to box beast midfielder we badly lack . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Two strikers, two out and out wingers with searing pace who burst the by line and put in 15 crosses per hallf, 4-2-4, 15p for a pint of mild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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