Are we feeling foolish?

[Guest shakesby]

This makes more sense now.

Things to consider;

We didn't sell out our boxes last year. Not even close.

We failed abjectly with our sponsorship and corporate deals, in terms of how much a club like us should be producing.

Then, you look at the work already in progress by chansiri, and ask - how much extra do we already have to play with thanks to that?

Ticket prices are going up across the board, with a moderately successful, play off chasing side, we will improve on this year's average attendances.

Stand and even stadium sponsorship is a possibility, as is a shirt deal we actually get paid for.

Then you have the wage bill - how much have we already shaved off in losing the loanees, deadwood and high earners.

Reality is, without knowing how much chansiri has lined up in sponsorship, we are all completely in the dark around overall budget. But I'd say worse case, we have a lot more scope for wages, maybe a minimal amount on fees.

Yep, you're bang on. Like I said I'm almost certainly completely wrong.

I know it sounds almost TOO simplistic - but couldn't we have 10 or so different sponsors around the ground all giving us a million, two million?

You have to think there's some way around it that the public can't see.

[modboy]

im guessing TUF could easily take half the executive boxes for their hospitality and pay for each one?

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

Yep, you're bang on. Like I said I'm almost certainly completely wrong.

I know it sounds almost TOO simplistic - but couldn't we have 10 or so different sponsors around the ground all giving us a million, two million?

You have to think there's some way around it that the public can't see.

 

The way around it is FFP, as QPR have demonstrated, means f*ck all, so Chansiri will do as he wants...

[markowl]

It's a rough estimate. Considering our financial losses last working year, combined with our turnover - and lack of subsequent investment, we still lost £5m.

Now for me, I could be completely wrong and probably am, we aren't going to generate much more money from ticket sales. In my opinion, Chansiri has increased the prices to 1.) Make our budget more flexbile regarding FFP, and 2.) Bring about the fact that IF we perform better, the fans will come back regardless of ticket prices, and we'll make more money than if we had with lower prices.

That immediately gives us a little bit of wiggle room. Not much mind, because a lot of it is banking on how many people turn up, and how many people buy STs, at the moment Chansiri will be estimating how many because obviously we haven't reached the completed figure and can't arrange FFP suitably.

As you say too, the wages freed up could be pretty big. As I'm sure you know, in 2012/13 we had a turnover of £15m and a wage bill of £12m. That gave us around £3m to spend before making a loss, including operating costs.

We ended up losing £5m I believe. Straight away that suggests that Mandaric did invest in equity as the overall figure a club can lose is £3m if the owner injects equity.

Also bear in mind that in the 2012/13 season we had pretty high gates and a squad with not a great deal of money invested in it, and it still lost £5m.

So to explain my point properly. Last season was the first year we could be properly affected by it. Assuming we had a similar sort of turnover, which is unlikely considering we had sponsors that invested less than £1m and had lower gates, then we would have had a turnover at between roughly 14 and 15m. We will have had a similar wage budget of around £12m.

That again gives us leeway of £3m (let's be generous) to expand in whichever way we want, however we lost £5m that season, so again let's assume the figure will be a similar amount. Mandaric would have had to cover costs of losses, as documented by his leasing against the stadium - which has subsequently been paid off by Chansiri I believe.

That leaves us £2m in the red.

Our maximum loss we can make is £8m, if we're a Championship club. The ways around that are either pay a hefty fine or transfer ban OR get promoted. So immediately that leaves £6m that Chansiri can legitimately invest.

Obviously though on top of that we have to consider sponsorships and other revenue streams. The big screen wi give us more, but the most important aspect is the money that Chansiris sponsor can invest.

Now the FL say that all sponsorship money has to be checked and approved before it can be legitimately spent. If there are any ties to the owner and his companies, then it will be limited. It doesn't specify how much, so potentially it could be £30m, it could be £5m.

However I have seen people say that it is based on the club's value, and how much benefit the sponsor gets out of it.

The club's value is around £40m, not necessarily including the assets, so again what would a fair and legitimate value of money be for a sponsor putting money into SWFC? How much money would they stand to get out of it? Well it certainly wouldn't be more than £5-10m, and FFP don't allow sponsors to make investments into clubs and end up in the red so let's guess that it is that figure of £5-10m that is the most accurate.

That gives us £6m of Chansiris 'equity' and money from sponsors - which is up in the air but being generous will be no more than £10m.

So that means we either;

1.) Break the rules and face a fine

2.) Increase our revenues through as many streams as possible to bring as much money in as possible

3.) Stay within the rules and regulations.

if we do the latter - then we have on a generous estimate £16 - £20m. On a realistic one - £9-£14m.

Obviously on a easy argument against that - we don't know last year's figures, we don't know how much a fair value of investment from sponsors is. But we can make considered judgements, and I feel I'm being generous at £5m+. From a club of our stature a sponsor won't make more than £5m from sponsoring us, sadly, and while Chansiri and the rest of the consortium will be willing to make a loss initially if it means promotion, the FL won't allow that.

The only way I can see around it is if we have multiple sponsorships of smaller amounts from all around the ground. That to me would make sense but again the FL have to deem it sensible, sadly.

Tl;Dr jon

[SiJ]

Jon always loved a long post.

[asteener1867]

Does that "Display name history" thingy not work then?

[markowl]

Does that "Display name history" thingy not work then?

I think Blunkett broke it when he used his fifteenth username

Edited May 22, 2015 by markowl

[since59owe]

Not foolish. We released all those players because they weren't good enough.

If Semedo is the only one to sign out of those offered a contract, then fair enough. Would like to keep all three of Lee, Loovens and Kirkland, but if they ain't happy with what has been offered then so be it. They can be replaced with better.

Yep, move on

[Mr Farrell]

Good point from JTO.

[stanningtonowl]

Hi Jon. Send my regards to Matty. When did you say he was signing?

[Simaniac Owl]

roger OFF. I am not Jon, seriously.

Hi Jon.

How is Matty?

Ffs, read all the posts

Edited May 22, 2015 by Simaniac Owl

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

Ello Jon got a new motor

[Weshallovercome]

It's a rough estimate. Considering our financial losses last working year, combined with our turnover - and lack of subsequent investment, we still lost £5m.

Now for me, I could be completely wrong and probably am, we aren't going to generate much more money from ticket sales. In my opinion, Chansiri has increased the prices to 1.) Make our budget more flexbile regarding FFP, and 2.) Bring about the fact that IF we perform better, the fans will come back regardless of ticket prices, and we'll make more money than if we had with lower prices.

That immediately gives us a little bit of wiggle room. Not much mind, because a lot of it is banking on how many people turn up, and how many people buy STs, at the moment Chansiri will be estimating how many because obviously we haven't reached the completed figure and can't arrange FFP suitably.

As you say too, the wages freed up could be pretty big. As I'm sure you know, in 2012/13 we had a turnover of £15m and a wage bill of £12m. That gave us around £3m to spend before making a loss, including operating costs.

We ended up losing £5m I believe. Straight away that suggests that Mandaric did invest in equity as the overall figure a club can lose is £3m if the owner injects equity.

Also bear in mind that in the 2012/13 season we had pretty high gates and a squad with not a great deal of money invested in it, and it still lost £5m.

So to explain my point properly. Last season was the first year we could be properly affected by it. Assuming we had a similar sort of turnover, which is unlikely considering we had sponsors that invested less than £1m and had lower gates, then we would have had a turnover at between roughly 14 and 15m. We will have had a similar wage budget of around £12m.

That again gives us leeway of £3m (let's be generous) to expand in whichever way we want, however we lost £5m that season, so again let's assume the figure will be a similar amount. Mandaric would have had to cover costs of losses, as documented by his leasing against the stadium - which has subsequently been paid off by Chansiri I believe.

That leaves us £2m in the red.

Our maximum loss we can make is £8m, if we're a Championship club. The ways around that are either pay a hefty fine or transfer ban OR get promoted. So immediately that leaves £6m that Chansiri can legitimately invest.

Obviously though on top of that we have to consider sponsorships and other revenue streams. The big screen wi give us more, but the most important aspect is the money that Chansiris sponsor can invest.

Now the FL say that all sponsorship money has to be checked and approved before it can be legitimately spent. If there are any ties to the owner and his companies, then it will be limited. It doesn't specify how much, so potentially it could be £30m, it could be £5m.

However I have seen people say that it is based on the club's value, and how much benefit the sponsor gets out of it.

The club's value is around £40m, not necessarily including the assets, so again what would a fair and legitimate value of money be for a sponsor putting money into SWFC? How much money would they stand to get out of it? Well it certainly wouldn't be more than £5-10m, and FFP don't allow sponsors to make investments into clubs and end up in the red so let's guess that it is that figure of £5-10m that is the most accurate.

That gives us £6m of Chansiris 'equity' and money from sponsors - which is up in the air but being generous will be no more than £10m.

So that means we either;

1.) Break the rules and face a fine

2.) Increase our revenues through as many streams as possible to bring as much money in as possible

3.) Stay within the rules and regulations.

if we do the latter - then we have on a generous estimate £16 - £20m. On a realistic one - £9-£14m.

Obviously on a easy argument against that - we don't know last year's figures, we don't know how much a fair value of investment from sponsors is. But we can make considered judgements, and I feel I'm being generous at £5m+. From a club of our stature a sponsor won't make more than £5m from sponsoring us, sadly, and while Chansiri and the rest of the consortium will be willing to make a loss initially if it means promotion, the FL won't allow that.

The only way I can see around it is if we have multiple sponsorships of smaller amounts from all around the ground. That to me would make sense but again the FL have to deem it sensible, sadly.

 

The whole post is far too well constructed to be Jon, but the last word seals it.

 

Hi, I'm not Jon.

 

 

 

 

[Guest shakesby]

The whole post is far too well constructed to be Jon, but the last word seals it.

Hi, I'm not Jon.

Can I change my username to 'Hi, I'm not Jon' please?

[McRightSide]

Can I change my username to 'Hi, I'm not Jon' please?

Or

'Hi, I'm not Jon. But I used to be'

[themaskedowl]

If the rumours about us not having a shirt sponsor lined up yet are true, that struck me as odd. However, as Jon has pointed out we don't have a clear idea of what our season ticket revenue will be yet. Perhaps our sponsorship deal will be announced when we know just how much we need?

I'll clarify by saying I know nothing. This is all pure speculation.

[Sham67]

If the rumours about us not having a shirt sponsor lined up yet are true, that struck me as odd. However, as Jon has pointed out we don't have a clear idea of what our season ticket revenue will be yet. Perhaps our sponsorship deal will be announced when we know just how much we need?

I'll clarify by saying I know nothing. This is all pure speculation.

 

What rumours would they be?  Not another Owlstalk myth.

[Guest shakesby]

Or

'Hi, I'm not Jon. But I used to be'

Why would I ask for that?

[themaskedowl]

What rumours would they be? Not another Owlstalk myth.

Yes, that's the one.

Was said earlier in a thread on the new strip that it wouldn't have an official sponsor but Chansiri name until official sponsor was announced.

That's why I put rumour and didn't try to pass it off as fact. Not to mention my last disclaimer. Just thinking out loud.

Edited May 23, 2015 by themaskedowl

[SallyCinnamon]

Hey Jon how's Uni going?