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Are we feeling foolish?


Guest shakesby

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Sorry I think you misunderstood, we can increase our budget by £10m. Unless Chansiri has a way around FFP with revenue.

That includes wages and fees.

How can you increase your budget by £10m?

 

The only way to get an increase of £10m this season would be by putting another £10m on your turnover, where's that going to come from?

 

I've a bit of time on my hands today, so indulge me.

 

2013/14 Season

 

Turnover                     £13.8m

Wages and Salaries    £-12.5m

Operating expenses    £-6.7m

 

Operating loss                      -£5.4m

 

So with FFP limits of £8m, you’re well within it.

 

Last season accounts are yet to be published but it’s probably safe to assume that the only increase in revenue from the previous season would be higher average attendances, although that was only around 650 per game and the Man City cup ties revenue.

 

So again it’s not stretching it to guest that for season 2014/15, even if the wage budget showed a slight increase and operating expenses stayed the same as 13/14

 

Turnover                     £14.3m

Wages and Salaries    -£13m

Operating expenses    -£6.7m

 

Operating loss          -£5.4m

 

So with FFP limits of £6m, your sailing close to the wind for a January embargo.

 

 

For this season, 2015/16 the FFP limits drop again to £5m.

 

So assuming, once again, your operating expenses stay the same, as they have done for the past six years and you stay within the FFP limits. For your wage/salaries/fees budget to increase by £10m, your turnover would have to increase to over £25m.

 

I can't see anywhere in your last published accounts where that type of growth would come from. Have a look and see if you agree.

 

http://www.swfc.co.uk/documents/swfcaccount2014-lowres138-2297790.pdf

Edited by just visiting
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How can you increase your budget by £10m?

The only way to get an increase of £10m this season would be by putting another £10m on your turnover, where's that going to come from?

I've a bit of time on my hands today, so indulge me.

2013/14 Season

Turnover £13.8m

Wages and Salaries £-12.5m

Operating expenses £-6.7m

Operating loss -£5.4m

So with FFP limits of £8m, you’re well within it.

Last season accounts are yet to be published but it’s probably safe to assume that the only increase in revenue from the previous season would be higher average attendances, although that was only around 650 per game and the Man City cup ties revenue.

So again it’s not stretching it to guest that for season 2014/15, even if the wage budget showed a slight increase and operating expenses stayed the same as 13/14

Turnover £14.3m

Wages and Salaries -£13m

Operating expenses -£6.7m

Operating loss -£5.4m

So with FFP limits of £6m, your sailing close to the wind for a January embargo.

For this season, 2015/16 the FFP limits drop again to £5m.

So assuming, once again, your operating expenses stay the same, as they have done for the past six years and you stay within the FFP limits. For your wage/salaries/fees budget to increase by £10m, your turnover would have to increase to over £25m.

I can't see anywhere in your last published accounts where that type of growth would come from. Have a look and see if you agree.

http://www.swfc.co.uk/documents/swfcaccount2014-lowres138-2297790.pdf

You're wasting your time with this one JV.But you could do us all a favour and convert him to Leeds.
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How can you increase your budget by £10m?

 

The only way to get an increase of £10m this season would be by putting another £10m on your turnover, where's that going to come from?

 

I've a bit of time on my hands today, so indulge me.

 

2013/14 Season

 

Turnover                     £13.8m

Wages and Salaries    £-12.5m

Operating expenses    £-6.7m

 

Operating loss                      -£5.4m

 

So with FFP limits of £8m, you’re well within it.

 

Last season accounts are yet to be published but it’s probably safe to assume that the only increase in revenue from the previous season would be higher average attendances, although that was only around 650 per game and the Man City cup ties revenue.

 

So again it’s not stretching it to guest that for season 2014/15, even if the wage budget showed a slight increase and operating expenses stayed the same as 13/14

 

Turnover                     £14.3m

Wages and Salaries    -£13m

Operating expenses    -£6.7m

 

Operating loss          -£5.4m

 

So with FFP limits of £6m, your sailing close to the wind for a January embargo.

 

 

For this season, 2015/16 the FFP limits drop again to £5m.

 

So assuming, once again, your operating expenses stay the same, as they have done for the past six years and you stay within the FFP limits. For your wage/salaries/fees budget to increase by £10m, your turnover would have to increase to over £25m.

 

I can't see anywhere in your last published accounts where that type of growth would come from. Have a look and see if you agree.

 

http://www.swfc.co.uk/documents/swfcaccount2014-lowres138-2297790.pdf

Sponsors, non-related to Chansiri.

Thanks.

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Guest wilyfox

For this season, 2015/16 the FFP limits drop again to £5m.

I don't know where you got that from, but it's wrong.

Permitted loss comes down further - but with greater investment from shareholders allowed.

2015/16 FFP = £2m loss, up to £13m with shareholder investment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29940463

Edited by wilyfox
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So the OP implies that we are being foolish to offer such meagre contracts to four players that might result in them leaving for better offers elsewhere.

I can't see how it is foolish for SWFC to offer players what we think they are worth to SWFC. Other clubs may value the same players higher, but they may be more desperate to fill certain positions/roles.

We will only look foolish if/when a player leaves and has a better season than his replacement. This applies to the four players with contract offers and the other released 11. I'd suggest we would look more foolish if Madine bangs them in for Bolton, than if Loovens does well at Cardiff. Or if Buxton has a stormer replacing an injured £1.5m bearded wonder fullback somewhere.

Bottom line is that at the end of every season choices have to be made. Some you win, some you lose. Its just a welcome change that we don't have to pay over the odds to keep decent, but inconsistent, players like Maguire anymore. Hopefully, in our new era, it won't be such a hard job to sell the club to similar or better replacement players if Maguire and co decide to leave.

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Good players are always going to have a few options of clubs.

Sorry if Lee goes but he is not irreplaceable by any means.

Loovens too injury prone for me so would be glad if he went. 

 

I agree that Lee is not irreplaceable but I think we as fans sometimes underestimate how important the personalities are and when players have had a few seasons to become mates etc it contributes a lot to the team. How many interviews have we seen from players this season praising the spirit in the squad. It's one of those things that will only get mentioned when it's genuinely there and it counts for a lot with a team wanting to get promoted. Burnley are a prime example of that a few seasons ago. A boat load of new faces just makes it longer before we settle again.

 

Loovens had a very positive effect on Lees and is the reason I want him to stay. Lees was still good with him but better with Loovens alongside him.

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I don't know where you got that from, but it's wrong.

Permitted loss comes down further - but with greater investment from shareholders allowed.

2015/16 FFP = £2m loss, up to £13m with shareholder investment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29940463

Bit of a grey area there then as the Official Football league websites states that " The existing Championship FFP framework will remain in place for the 2014/15 and 2015/16 seasons."

 
I stand corrected though, that being the case.
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Guest wilyfox

Bit of a grey area there then as the Official Football league websites states that " The existing Championship FFP framework will remain in place for the 2014/15 and 2015/16 seasons."

 

I stand corrected though, that being the case.

It remains the same in terms of being assessed yearly until 2016/17, when the new 3yr £39m aggregate rules kick in. But an amendment was made to permitted loss for the 2015/16 season, bringing it inline with the new rules coming in the following year.

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If any of the out-of-contract players wish to exercise their right to move clubs, then good luck to them. All of them are replaceable, though ideally they would stay and add depth to the new look squad this summer.

 

As for FFP, I think the QPR situation has proven it is a bite with no teeth, so lets not concern ourselves too much with that.

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It remains the same in terms of being assessed yearly until 2016/17, when the new 3yr £39m aggregate rules kick in. But an amendment was made to permitted loss for the 2015/16 season, bringing it inline with the new rules coming in the following year.

Yep, quite right.

 

The FL website had the permitted losses still at £5m (£2+3m investor) for 15/16. That's updated now.

 

My bad.

 

Spend, Spend, Spend, then.

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Yep, quite right.

The FL website had the permitted losses still at £5m (£2+3m investor) for 15/16. That's updated now.

My bad.

Spend, Spend, Spend, then.

I had the same issue - took my understanding, foolishly, off the fl site.

I'd also argue income is likely to be higher, with sponsorship likely to increase too. Wages are going to be drastically lower as it stands with only half a team under contract, so there's a couple of million possibly free in wages already.

I still don't understand where this round number of £10m comes in though.

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