sheffield_dave Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, SiJ said: Funnily enough, one of the reasons Messi wanted out a year ago was because the President at the time kept blaming him for Barca's issues...which seems absolutely bonkers, but here we are. Would suggest Barca's issues stem from wasting hundreds of millions of pounds on players who haven't worked out. And I would agree with you. My point isn’t that Messi should be blamed for what’s happened at Barca, but that trying to blame Ronaldo for where Juventus are at is just as ridiculous. Clearly somethings not right at Juve and they’ve been off the boil. You could even argue that signing Ronaldo in the first place was the start of that type of poor strategy. But I don’t think that’s Ronaldo’s fault or should be used to knock his achievements or career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T Hardy Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 2 hours ago, sheffield_dave said: Barca won just a solitary domestic cup last year - small fry for them - and look likely to do sod all this year. Will you be blaming Messi for the mess they’re in? Show me when anyone at Barca left Messi out of a critical end of season game and then we can compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T Hardy Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said: And I would agree with you. My point isn’t that Messi should be blamed for what’s happened at Barca, but that trying to blame Ronaldo for where Juventus are at is just as ridiculous. Clearly somethings not right at Juve and they’ve been off the boil. You could even argue that signing Ronaldo in the first place was the start of that type of poor strategy. But I don’t think that’s Ronaldo’s fault or should be used to knock his achievements or career. Nobody is blaming him, it’s just a fact that he was brought there to win the Champions League and carry on winning Serie A - failed on both counts and was left out of a critical end of season game, these are just facts. It’s not blaming everything that’s gone wrong at Juve on him at all, but it’s fair analysis to say it didn’t work out for him and both parties were happy to part. Barca and Messi wanted to stay together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 1 minute ago, T Hardy said: Show me when anyone at Barca left Messi out of a critical end of season game and then we can compare I don’t really feel the need to get into it in all honesty. I don’t enough about it, whereas you seem ultra-focused on this very specific point to support whatever it is you’re wanting to prove so.. it is what it is. My only counter point is that Juventus has been sh*t this season as well, which you don’t seem too fussed about and instead would rather suggest that’s still his fault as well so.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) I have no doubt in my mind that Ronaldo will score goals. The guy is 36 yet is just as fit, if not fitter than most players on the field. Might have lost a yard of pace over the years but will no doubt still be just as quick as most. The main question is will he be able to win Man Utd a major trophy? ps that question for for personal and club achievement - Not bothered about the whole debate of who is GOAT. Edited September 13, 2021 by Skyline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T Hardy Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 What’s there to focus on? You are framing the argument as if they collapsed as soon as he left, they’d already decided he wasn’t part of their plans last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 If you are wanting to be critical of Ronnie at Juve and I'd still consider it harsh, you could point to the fact he was brought in to help them win the Champs League and yet they actually performed worse in that competition once he arrived. Still - I'd say that was harsh and less said about Barcas recent efforts the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T Hardy Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Skyline said: I have no doubt in my mind that Ronaldo will score goals. The guy is 36 yet is just as fit, if not fitter than most players on the field. Might have lost a yard of pace over the years but will no doubt still be just as quick as most. The main question is will he be able to win Man Utd a major trophy? ps that question for for personal and club achievement - Not bothered about the whole debate of who is GOAT. If a major trophy means the FA Cup, sure. I can’t see them winning more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 I'm not sure they can win the league, even with him. He makes them into contenders though. Just wonder about that midfield pivot of Fred, McTominay and Matic. I'd say that's the weakest out of the four potential contenders. De Gea needs a good season too. United might have the most exciting attacking options now, but that's really splitting hairs tbh. For me, Chelsea are favs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 55 minutes ago, T Hardy said: What’s there to focus on? You are framing the argument as if they collapsed as soon as he left, they’d already decided he wasn’t part of their plans last season No, I'm not. Are you willfully going out of your way to misunderstand the point? I'm saying there are obviously deep rooted issues at Juventus that aren't related to Ronaldo or any other individual (or collective of) players. They exist right now, almost certainly existed last season, possibly existed at the point they decided to sign Ronaldo in the first place, maybe even before that. Perhaps some of these issues caused the breakdown of the relationship between club and player that caused this "drop" you seem obsessed with last season and him demanding to leave this summer? Perhaps the lesson from all of this is that clubs should stop putting all their eggs in one players basket to win the Champions League. Ronaldo won plenty with Juventus but if the top prize is all he will be judged on there then we all better hope PSG win it this year. Messi hasn't been signed to wrestle Ligue 1 back from Lille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T Hardy Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said: No, I'm not. Are you willfully going out of your way to misunderstand the point? I'm saying there are obviously deep rooted issues at Juventus that aren't related to Ronaldo or any other individual (or collective of) players. They exist right now, almost certainly existed last season, possibly existed at the point they decided to sign Ronaldo in the first place, maybe even before that. Perhaps some of these issues caused the breakdown of the relationship between club and player that caused this "drop" you seem obsessed with last season and him demanding to leave this summer? Perhaps the lesson from all of this is that clubs should stop putting all their eggs in one players basket to win the Champions League. Ronaldo won plenty with Juventus but if the top prize is all he will be judged on there then we all better hope PSG win it this year. Messi hasn't been signed to wrestle Ligue 1 back from Lille. I never blamed all of Juventus’ problems on Ronaldo? I stated a fact that for footballing reasons he was left out last year. You seem to be saying now that your point about deep rooted issues is irrelevant to that, I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southie_Owl Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 Personally feel when a player has scored 35 times in 42 games and is dropped from the last game of the season, that’s more to do with the fact that player made it clear he wanted to leave earlier in the season - than not being good enough for a big game. Or his manager was just crackers and seeing as he’s no longer a manager, that’s more a possibility than one of the best players in the world not being good enough anymore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said: Personally feel when a player has scored 35 times in 42 games and is dropped from the last game of the season, that’s more to do with the fact that player made it clear he wanted to leave earlier in the season - than not being good enough for a big game. Or his manager was just crackers and seeing as he’s no longer a manager, that’s more a possibility than one of the best players in the world not being good enough anymore. Yep. Also worth pointing out this must win game wasn't for a trophy or to actually win anything. It was to see if they finished 4th and qualified for the CL or not. Suggests some massive problems to me through the whole season and that - like I mentioned above - perhaps that had all made the working relationship with Ronaldo untenable at that point. T Hardy keeps using the word "facts" though so pretty sure he has all the inside info here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T Hardy Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 1 hour ago, sheffield_dave said: Yep. Also worth pointing out this must win game wasn't for a trophy or to actually win anything. It was to see if they finished 4th and qualified for the CL or not. Suggests some massive problems to me through the whole season and that - like I mentioned above - perhaps that had all made the working relationship with Ronaldo untenable at that point. T Hardy keeps using the word "facts" though so pretty sure he has all the inside info here. Ronaldo’s not gonna shag you mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 On 11/09/2021 at 20:44, FreshOwl said: Ain’t gonna lie it was beautiful to see him back today A Wednesday fan describing the return of a Manu Utd player to the club as beautiful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0wl18 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 Got a mate who works at Juve. He says it was all Ronaldo’s fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 36 minutes ago, 0wl18 said: Got a mate who works at Juve. He says it was all Ronaldo’s fault. That settles it then Im just interested to know how it’s the fault of a guy whose scored 29 goals? Would Juve have won Serie A and the Champions League without him then, I mean who would have covered the 29 goals to begin with? genuinely interested to know the thought process here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mikedean Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 3 hours ago, FreshOwl said: That settles it then Im just interested to know how it’s the fault of a guy whose scored 29 goals? Would Juve have won Serie A and the Champions League without him then, I mean who would have covered the 29 goals to begin with? genuinely interested to know the thought process here Nobody disputes his incredible goal scoring record. It’s the ability to score in crucial games that matters, like this season, if he scores 30 goals but they’re all against teams in the bottom half, it doesn’t count for too much. His 29 goals had Juve in 5th before he was dropped. His fault? Of course not, but they weren’t the difference in elevating them to higher than 5th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Rimmer Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 17 hours ago, SiJ said: I'm not sure they can win the league, even with him. He makes them into contenders though. Just wonder about that midfield pivot of Fred, McTominay and Matic. I'd say that's the weakest out of the four potential contenders. De Gea needs a good season too. United might have the most exciting attacking options now, but that's really splitting hairs tbh. For me, Chelsea are favs. De Gea seems to be back to me, I have been impressed with him. Piggy Henderson needs a move 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando_Trustful Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 What's with the Guest T Hardy and Guest mikedean about in here? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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