Ronaldo to Citeh?

[sheffield_dave]

15 hours ago, 0wl18 said:

I’ve said it before.

 

Pretend you’ve never seen a game of football in your life. 
 

Pick any 5 games from Messi or Ronaldo’s career.

 

Watch the entire 90 minutes.

 

Not 1 person would tell me that Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi.

 

But these attempts to limit the discussion are extremely silly. 

 

We don't need to pretend we've never watched football before and pick any 5 games. As a collective, the football community has spent the last 10 years obsessing over these two players and will do for the rest of our lives and beyond. We have the full body of their careers to look at, and between them they've made over 2,000 appearances for club and country. You don't need to limit the conversation to a small, tightly controlled terms to try and prove a point. 

 

To be honest my biggest take from the Messi vs Ronaldo thing is that with that full body of work in mind, and those more than 2,000 appearances, how anyone can say who is the better with the emotionally invested certainty that they do. Stuff like "facts!" and "you don't know anything about football if you think he's better!". Playground stuff. 

 

 

[SiJ]

3 hours ago, Owls-Fan said:

 

Interesting you say that, as i would chose Ronaldo.  And i notice when Neville asked Roy Keane "Ronaldo or Messi?", Keane's reply was "Ronaldo every day of the week".  So where does your fact above go from here?  

Two of his ex teammates.

[Adem Poric]

41 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

But these attempts to limit the discussion are extremely silly. 

 

We don't need to pretend we've never watched football before and pick any 5 games. As a collective, the football community has spent the last 10 years obsessing over these two players and will do for the rest of our lives and beyond. We have the full body of their careers to look at, and between them they've made over 2,000 appearances for club and country. You don't need to limit the conversation to a small, tightly controlled terms to try and prove a point. 

 

To be honest my biggest take from the Messi vs Ronaldo thing is that with that full body of work in mind, and those more than 2,000 appearances, how anyone can say who is the better with the emotionally invested certainty that they do. Stuff like "facts!" and "you don't know anything about football if you think he's better!". Playground stuff. 

 

 

 

Or saying "facts" after posting about subjectivity could be seen as tongue in cheek, no?

 

Just goes to show you how seriously people take this debate and how childish that is.

 

 

[CalmJimmers]

43 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

But these attempts to limit the discussion are extremely silly. 

 

We don't need to pretend we've never watched football before and pick any 5 games. As a collective, the football community has spent the last 10 years obsessing over these two players and will do for the rest of our lives and beyond. We have the full body of their careers to look at, and between them they've made over 2,000 appearances for club and country. You don't need to limit the conversation to a small, tightly controlled terms to try and prove a point. 

 

To be honest my biggest take from the Messi vs Ronaldo thing is that with that full body of work in mind, and those more than 2,000 appearances, how anyone can say who is the better with the emotionally invested certainty that they do. Stuff like "facts!" and "you don't know anything about football if you think he's better!". Playground stuff. 

 

 

 

100% - well put. It will always be based on opinion.

 

Both are unreal, and I feel lucky they've both been around at the same time with extensive TV coverage to watch them.

[Billy Hunt]

It’s quite simple really. One group are clearly right and honestly it’s pretty obvious. The other group have clearly no idea about football.

[Guest T Hardy]

1 hour ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

But these attempts to limit the discussion are extremely silly. 

 

We don't need to pretend we've never watched football before and pick any 5 games. As a collective, the football community has spent the last 10 years obsessing over these two players and will do for the rest of our lives and beyond. We have the full body of their careers to look at, and between them they've made over 2,000 appearances for club and country. You don't need to limit the conversation to a small, tightly controlled terms to try and prove a point. 

 

To be honest my biggest take from the Messi vs Ronaldo thing is that with that full body of work in mind, and those more than 2,000 appearances, how anyone can say who is the better with the emotionally invested certainty that they do. Stuff like "facts!" and "you don't know anything about football if you think he's better!". Playground stuff. 

 

 

I think the point he was making (and well in my opinion) is that if you watch the same amount of each then it’s an obvious conclusion. Likewise, if you watched a compilation of their best goals. One does stuff that no other players can do, the other does what a lot of other players can do, but at a much more consistent level 

[FreshOwl]

Thing is, you can make a case for any of them to be the greatest as it can be a subjective topic. That’s what makes football the best sport in the world 

 

Damn I love this game!! 

[BIG D]

For sheer ability alone and the continued standard of performance Messi is rightly right up there with the best of all time.

CR7 isn’t.  IMO 

Edited September 3, 2021 by BIG D

[sheffield_dave]

1 hour ago, Adem Poric said:

 

Or saying "facts" after posting about subjectivity could be seen as tongue in cheek, no?

 

 

I think the debate has lost the benefit of the doubt to take that for granted, to be honest.

 

I used and stand by the term "emotional investment". There's a bit of that on here, for sure.

[Adem Poric]

8 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

I think the debate has lost the benefit of the doubt to take that for granted, to be honest.

 

I used and stand by the term "emotional investment". There's a bit of that on here, for sure.

 

 

What do you mean by emotional investment in the context of Ronaldo and Messi? Do you mean posters are caught up in their own views that they show an over the top fervour one way or the other? I kind of agree with that to some extent and I certainly think you got caught up in it with your post before.

 

Personally I couldn't care less about who is given this title of "GOAT". Having watched them both for years I think Messi is better but if someone thinks Ronaldo is the best they've seen then good on them. He's a phenomenal player. Messi himself would say he's not as good as Maradona was though.

 

I still think the player that has made my jaw drop more than any other was when Ronaldo burst on to the scene for PSV then Barca. Either that or Gazza, pure excitement when they got the ball.

 

 

[Quickly Kevin]

Jermaine Johnson was better than them both.

 

Fact.

[Skyline]

20 minutes ago, Adem Poric said:

 

 

What do you mean by emotional investment in the context of Ronaldo and Messi? Do you mean posters are caught up in their own views that they show an over the top fervour one way or the other? I kind of agree with that to some extent and I certainly think you got caught up in it with your post before.

 

Personally I couldn't care less about who is given this title of "GOAT". Having watched them both for years I think Messi is better but if someone thinks Ronaldo is the best they've seen then good on them. He's a phenomenal player. Messi himself would say he's not as good as Maradona was though.

 

I still think the player that has made my jaw drop more than any other was when Ronaldo burst on to the scene for PSV then Barca. Either that or Gazza, pure excitement when they got the ball.

 

 

Ronaldo R9

Still goes down as on of my favourite players ever. 

 

Messi also gets my vote over this argument. But their head-to-head battle this past decade has been phenomenal and great entertainment which we should all just admire and enjoy.

[sheffield_dave]

21 minutes ago, Adem Poric said:

 

What do you mean by emotional investment in the context of Ronaldo and Messi? Do you mean posters are caught up in their own views that they show an over the top fervour one way or the other? I kind of agree with that to some extent and I certainly think you got caught up in it with your post before.

 

 

Which post?

 

I did make a previous post explaining which of them I personally prefer and would pick for my team if - gun to head - I had to pick 1. And I'll stand by that would be Ronaldo. That is purely a personal call based around the qualities of the two players I value and which of them I enjoy watching for what they bring to a team. 

 

What I mean by emotional investment is the more broad "GOAT" discussion and which of them is better. We are all trapped in this endless cycle of comparing and contrasting the two players as people bicker over which is the greatest. And as I said previously when quoting you, there is plenty of 100% non-ironic or tongue in cheek use of terms like "facts" and "you don't know anything about football" when the subject comes up. It's a subject that people do get legitimately angry about. Plenty of frothing mouths about at the daring suggestion that one is the GOAT instead of the other. 

 

FWIW I'm with you on the OG Ronaldo - my favourite ever non-SWFC player and always will be. Particularly at this stage of his career though, there is some overlap of why I loved OG Ronaldo as to why I'd pick CR7 for my team now if I had to instead of Messi. 

[SiJ]

Original Ronaldo was unreal.

 

Suppose current Ronaldo may have surpassed him as the greatest  goalscorer, but still, what a player.

 

Shame about the injuries.

 

 

[SiJ]

Funnily enough, my fav ever world class player/all time great is probably Iniesta.

 

Bloody genius.

[Django]

Love a good who’s better debate

 

Messi or Ronaldo?

 

Hirst or Deane?

 

Fleck or Bannan?

 

 

[sheffield_dave]

20 minutes ago, Django said:

 

Fleck or Bannan?

 

Hear me out.

 

Pretend you’ve never seen any football before in your life, pick any 5 games from their careers..

[Owls-Fan]

8 hours ago, 0wl18 said:

Because my post clearly said, as 2 man United legends, who both played with Ronaldo, which player they prefer didn’t it?

 

No worries so what you meant to say was

 

"Not 1 person would tell me that Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi, not including those people who do, his ex-teammates, and football pundits like Ian Wright who recently chose Ronaldo over Messi in a MOTD top ten show" .  

[0wl18]

3 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said:

 

No worries so what you meant to say was

 

"Not 1 person would tell me that Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi, not including those people who do, his ex-teammates, and football pundits like Ian Wright who recently chose Ronaldo over Messi in a MOTD top ten show" .  

Messi has been MOTM in 55% of the games he’s played in. The end.

[Ellis Rimmer]

Messi and Ronaldo debate is subjective, people on either side give more credence to the players skillsets, depending on what you feel is better or more impressive. Achievement wise seems pretty neck and neck to me but Messis dribbling to me seems more impressive, but ultimately they got similar results. There is no right or wrong way to win at football.