@owlstalk Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Just now, CircleSeven said: Following up from the themes of my other posts I hope Pulis has developed as a manager and not only doesn’t take us down but leaves us in a better state than he finds us. I 100% think he will DEPENDING on when he leaves/gets fired. Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Monk has managed some big clubs, Wednesday, Leeds, Boro, Birmingham, Swansea. Whether he gets a gig like that next, I doubt it given his record here. But you could see him popping up and doing really well at a Preston or Blackburn or even a Rotherham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 It’s not about whether they’re ultimately fired because most are. It’s more do they have some success prior. I mean Pulis was fired (or didn’t have his contract renewed) at Stoke but it’s hard to argue that that wasn’t a success when you see where they started and finished under him. Some managers are consistently successful showing it’s not just luck.. e.g. Wilder. Other managers sometimes do well and other times it doesn’t go well. Managers who never succeed anywhere are lucky if they keep getting jobs.. that’s why Monk sounds like he’s always making excuses because he needs something to scapegoat every time he leaves somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, CircleSeven said: Championship and league one are full of journeyman managers. It’s inevitable. There are 24 championship clubs and 24 league 1 clubs. Only three clubs go up each season from each division so of course it is full of journeymen. Anyone who works in any industry will see the same faces popping up at different companies over time. I’ve worked with the same bloke three times at three different companies. It follows football will broadly be similar given that it’s a business and there are limited numbers of available candidates and jobs. I think Monk’s failure was rooted in his coaching skills. It felt to me that he could see what he wanted to do but could not get the players to do it or see what to do when things were not going to plan. Coaching skills can improve and I suppose so can Garry. At some point he will pop up again at a club who need to roll the dice on someone new and there is a limited crop of available managers. Good luck to him, if he learns from what went wrong he might do a better job for a different club. As to the ‘point of the thread’ debate it’s given me something to think about so that will do for me A bit like Sheridan leaving (currently bottom of League one ) Wigan to take over (second from bottom of league one) Swindon, why has either club employed someone who has achieved nothing as a manager ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmigo Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Monk did a good job at Swansea - stabilised the team as a young manager after they became too open under Laudrup. They were 15th when he got the can, by no means looking like going down. Leeds - again I would argue a good job and came closer than any manager before in getting into the top 6 Boro - bought some good players but they overspent. Brum - kept then up with a points deduction Here - Mid table last season having come into chaos thanks to the snake Bruce abandoning ship at the start of the season and leaving an estate agent to run the team. Mid table being where we finished under Gray, Jos, Bruce. This season we started OK. I just dont see Monk as a bad manager. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleSeven Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bulldog said: A bit like Sheridan leaving (currently bottom of League one ) Wigan to take over (second from bottom of league one) Swindon, why has either club employed someone who has achieved nothing as a manager ??? Maybe the Swindon directors are secret Wednesdayites and still remember him scoring in the cup final? Its unlikely but not impossible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, mcmigo said: Monk did a good job at Swansea - stabilised the team as a young manager after they became too open under Laudrup. They were 15th when he got the can, by no means looking like going down. Leeds - again I would argue a good job and came closer than any manager before in getting into the top 6 Boro - bought some good players but they overspent. Brum - kept then up with a points deduction Here - Mid table last season having come into chaos thanks to the snake Bruce abandoning ship at the start of the season and leaving an estate agent to run the team. Mid table being where we finished under Gray, Jos, Bruce. This season we started OK. I just dont see Monk as a bad manager. Don’t know where to start with this lol. I wouldn’t call this seasons start ok.. we’re 21st and that’s even after 4 from the last 6 available. Pretty poor start. I wouldn’t say he came in to chaos, he came in to a squad of established championship players then began to dismantle it. Results correlated directly with him doing it too yet he showed no flexibility. The guys a poor man manager As for his track record.. Boro he got fired because they had the players to go for promotion but they were in 9th. Pulis got them to finish 5th. Birmingham he did nothing.. team was mid table and the points deduction didn’t make much difference.. they just moved from mid table to lower mid table. Leeds he failed to make top 6, losing out to us and Fulham despite being there all season. I remember we were 7th with about 9 games to go and people were fretting then they fell apart and we won 6 in a row Swansea had a well established style of play with Laudrup, Martinez and Rodgers. Monk stands out like a sore thumb.. got the job just because he was there If he was that successful then surely he’d have managed more than a year somewhere.. 5 clubs can’t all be wrong as it’s a similar story everywhere he goes. Falls out with players, has one style of play and no plan B, never manages to achieve the required consistency in results for a full season to actually achieve anything. Nobody cares if you can do it for 20 games if the other 20 are horrific. Guys very clearly a poor manager and will be lucky to get a championship job again. Doubt he’ll manage again anywhere tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said: Don’t know where to start with this lol. I wouldn’t call this seasons start ok.. we’re 21st and that’s even after 4 from the last 6 available. Pretty poor start. I wouldn’t say he came in to chaos WOW Rewriting history massively there Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmigo Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said: Don’t know where to start with this lol. I wouldn’t call this seasons start ok.. we’re 21st and that’s even after 4 from the last 6 available. Pretty poor start. I wouldn’t say he came in to chaos, he came in to a squad of established championship players then began to dismantle it. Results correlated directly with him doing it too yet he showed no flexibility. The guys a poor man manager As for his track record.. Boro he got fired because they had the players to go for promotion but they were in 9th. Pulis got them to finish 5th. Birmingham he did nothing.. team was mid table and the points deduction didn’t make much difference.. they just moved from mid table to lower mid table. Leeds he failed to make top 6, losing out to us and Fulham despite being there all season. I remember we were 7th with about 9 games to go and people were fretting then they fell apart and we won 6 in a row Swansea had a well established style of play with Laudrup, Martinez and Rodgers. Monk stands out like a sore thumb.. got the job just because he was there If he was that successful then surely he’d have managed more than a year somewhere.. 5 clubs can’t all be wrong as it’s a similar story everywhere he goes. Falls out with players, has one style of play and no plan B, never manages to achieve the required consistency in results for a full season to actually achieve anything. Nobody cares if you can do it for 20 games if the other 20 are horrific. Guys very clearly a poor manager and will be lucky to get a championship job again. Doubt he’ll manage again anywhere tbh I find it bizarre how the snake Bruce is hailed on here as a managerial genius having got us to mid table, Monk does same last season with a points deduction looming over us and he is made out to be a bad manager. As said, the snake Bruce abandoned us days before the start of the season, took all of our coaches and left us with an estate agent in charge. we were sky's tip to finish bottom of the league as a result at the start of the season. You then had players quitting mid season like the disgraced Fletcher. meanwhile Monk is given 'players' like Da Cruz to improve the squad.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, mcmigo said: I find it bizarre how the snake Bruce is hailed on here as a managerial genius having got us to mid table, Monk does same last season with a points deduction looming over us and he is made out to be a bad manager. As said, the snake Bruce abandoned us days before the start of the season, took all of our coaches and left us with an estate agent in charge. we were sky's tip to finish bottom of the league as a result at the start of the season. You then had players quitting mid season like the disgraced Fletcher. meanwhile Monk is given 'players' like Da Cruz to improve the squad.. Dunno why you have something against Bruce when he did what any sane person would do. Reason why he’s considered a better manager is because he has a track record of doing a good job at clubs whereas Monk doesn’t. Your point is even more odd considering Bruce joined us in 18th and led us to 12th, and Monk joined us in 9th and led us to 21st. That’s why most people think what they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefton owl Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I often think relatively young managers like him jump straight into the championship, even the premier league in some cases with no proven record. It’s better to establish yourself as a manager by having success in the lower leagues, just like Eddie Howe, Chris Wilder etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Just now, Jamie_W said: My thinking was that a sacking is inevitable, success is not, but you can still have periods of things going well even if your tenure ultimately sours - see Carlos. You absolutely can list periods of success with pretty much any manager, but some will have a very short list. So which seasons would we say Gary Monk has come out of a season saying he's had a good year as a manager? Which sides did he build that he can point to and say 'this is why you hire me, I can do this'? Yeah I hear what you're saying Honestly I dont' know enough about Monk's time managing previous clubs to give a qualified reply on it I think others have had a go at it in this thread though Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I do think he should’ve had us 12 points clear of the bottom 3 last season and much of this seasons issues wouldn’t have been relevant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Bluesteel said: Monk has managed some big clubs, Wednesday, Leeds, Boro, Birmingham, Swansea. Whether he gets a gig like that next, I doubt it given his record here. But you could see him popping up and doing really well at a Preston or Blackburn or even a Rotherham I don’t see him ever doing a good job anywhere TBH. His strengths are when he’s interviewed. When it comes to doing the actual job, he’s utter dogger as his record in management shows. Absolutely crazy decision by DC to hire him in the first place? It was always going to go the same way of his other jobs and did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Bluesteel said: I do think he should’ve had us 12 points clear of the bottom 3 last season and much of this seasons issues wouldn’t have been relevant Yeah but Christmas happened... Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Claw Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 fired by wednesday...................no day of the week is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowl Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Owls Loyal said: A lot of criticism was voiced by others when I pointed out last March pre-lockdown that Monk was fired by Swansea, fired by Boro and fired by Brum and should be fired by us.. That was fine because this Site is all about different opinions. However I will be surprised if Monk is offered another Prem/Championhip job. Is he cut out to manage at League 1/2 level? Not convinced personally that he would cut it there. He is the Emperor's Clothes. Forget Monk, he's gone, history. Once a manager goes there's no point following his subsequent career. He has no relevance to us whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 5 hours ago, mcmigo said: I find it bizarre how the snake Bruce is hailed on here as a managerial genius having got us to mid table, Monk does same last season with a points deduction looming over us and he is made out to be a bad manager. As said, the snake Bruce abandoned us days before the start of the season, took all of our coaches and left us with an estate agent in charge. we were sky's tip to finish bottom of the league as a result at the start of the season. You then had players quitting mid season like the disgraced Fletcher. meanwhile Monk is given 'players' like Da Cruz to improve the squad.. Thats some reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beighton Owl 87 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Swansea City P77 W28 D17 L32 Win% 36.4 Leeds United P53 W25 D11 L17 Win% 47.2 Middlesbrough P26 W12 D5 L9 Win% 46.2 Birmingham City P59 W19 D20 L20 Win% 32.2 Sheffield WednesdayP58 W18 D15L25Win%31 Looking at his stats his only failure is with us I would say. Swansea were in the premier league and would've expected to lose more than they win. Did a solid job with Leeds who hadn't been anywhere near the top six for a long time and his record at boro wasn't so bad either. In fact I believe he was sacked after beating us before Christmas. He may need to take a step down to League one but I could imagine him doing well in his next job. Some big clubs down there may be willing to give him a chance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tom Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 10 hours ago, @owlstalk said: This thread had imploded on itself logically by the time you'd finished reading the thread title really. All managers get fired over and over again It’s interesting though isn’t it - why do they, and yet they continue to get picked up again? Can’t think of another industry where this happens so predictably. The only logical conclusion can be that most of them make naff-all difference, and their main role is really just to deflect criticism from the players for as long as they can until the levy breaks. Obviously there are exceptions but those chosen few serve only to prove the rule, it seems. As an experiment, I’d love to see one team play a season with no manager at all, and see how they got on. Not us, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now