Keeper

[83owl]

8 hours ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

Ok I'll give you the 2 against Swansea. Both were from corners where he came for them and got a bump, with a different ref he could have easily had a foul on him given. Also in that game he made 2 stunning saves.

 

 

In another thread a few weeks ago, I looked back at the 15 goals conceded by KW.

 

1. Reading away 3-1. Good Meite header,  KW no chance at saving.

Needlessly rushes out and got sent off.

 

8 hours ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

2. Millwall away 0-1. Corner KW came for corner, didn't get there but defence at fault no one challenged giving Smith a free header. 

Smith got the run on Iorfa but the header itself was poor. Straight into the ground and it bounced into an empty net. The reason it was an empty net and not an easy catch was because Westwood was on the floor after doing his best leaping salmon impression and getting nowhere near the ball.

 

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3 and 4. Preston away 1-2. Both penalties.

5 and 6 Q.P.R. home 1-2. Both scored by Hughill, KW no chance with either.

7 Fulham home 1-1. KW saved first attempt, Cairney slotted rebound in, can't fault.
You must be joking? Saved the first attempt? It was a weak cross which he Palmed straight into the most dangerous area of the pitch-centre of the goal 8-10?yards out.

 

8. Middlesbrough away 4-1. McNair lashed in after ricochet in box from corner, no fault KW.

9. Hull away 0-1. Great Eaves header to top corner, KW no chance.

10 and 11. Blackburn away 1-2. 1st Adebayo towering looping header KW off his line, could be argued if he should have stayed on his line.

 

The ball travelled from a set piece by the halfway line, he had plenty of time to make his mind up. He started to come for the ball and then stopped but instead of getting in the right position he just hung around the edge of the 6 yard box.

 

 

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                  2nd Buckley shot, massive deflection KW no chance.

12 and 13. Swansea home 2-2. KW under pressure from 2 attackers dropped corner, Ayew hooked in. Another corner, poor defending KW                           missed punch, defenders switched off allowing Willmot to poke in.

 

At fault for both. He dropped one and flapped at the other.

 

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14 and 15. West Brom. away 1-2. Robson-Kanu through one on one, can't fault KW. 2nd Palmer let ball over top go, KW had to come out and                      challenge attacker who went down easily after slightest of touches. KW unlucky. Austin scored penalty.
He made a poor situation (needlessly caused by Palmer) worse by goving away the penalty.The West Brom forward hadn’t even got control of the ball. I agree he was a bit unlucky as he shouldn’t have had to deal with it, however if a keeper comes out they either get the ball or usher the forward wide until a defender can get back. He gambled but just wasn’t quick enough.

 

Other games played and kept a clean sheet.

 

Luton home 1-0

Huddersfield away 2-0

Wigan home 1-0

Leeds home 0-0

 

So out of the 15 goals conceded I think only one could be said to be KW's fault were, the 2 v Swansea and the one at Millwall.

 

What was noticeable though watching those matches again was how many brilliant saves he made to keep us in matches or help us win us matches.

 

The fact is we conceded on average a goal a game with KW in goal and without him we conceded nearly 2 a game.

He was deservedly dropped at the time, however I don’t think either Dawson or Wildsmith have taken their chance to make the position theirs. 

[james o connor]

11 hours ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

Abysmal? Conceded 15 goals in 14 matches.

 

 

Yeah most of those direct errors from himself . He’s had it . 

[heppers]

There is clearly a problem with Westwood. Managers don't want him in their set up despite his ability.

 

I think we need to move on.

 

Leeds had a similar issue with Pontus J. They moved him on for the good of the team.

 

We need a fresh start with a new culture.

[Ian]

The main issue for me with folk on here over the keepers issue is not necessarily who is best but how the keepers are judged...especially if you compare with other keepers up and down the country.

 

Every week you only have to watch MOTD and there will be goals scored directly from goalkeeping errors.......they happen......even multi million pound keepers are becoming serial culprits.

 

As for the organising the defence arguement,.......people dont seem to take in to account the lack of a leader in our defence, the constant changing of players, changing of formation and probably most telling of all, the omission of the best defensive midfielder we've had for many a year

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

We need a big beast between the sticks

Someone with distribution and vision

An auxiliary sweeper for want of a better description

Can turn defence Into attack instantly

Ederson on loan..

[Tommy Crawshaw]

3 hours ago, james o connor said:

Yeah most of those direct errors from himself . He’s had it . 

 

Yeah OK.

[Donny El]

12 hours ago, pat blondeau said:

Too many fans say Dawson and Wildsmith are ‘ones for the future’.

 

Dawson is 25 and Wildsmith is 24. They’re not kids. Henderson is a couple of years younger than both of them. If a keeper isn’t good enough in his mid 20s the chances are he’ll never be good enough 

Most keepers don't make the first team regularly untill they are 24 so both are only just starting on their careers in the pro game. Henderson is a great keeper and I think will be on the world stage in a few years. You seem to forget he is not the average academy product he was picked out at as young lad to be a future star by the number 1 academy in the country. On top of that he is a top lad a great coach to the youngsters and a good ambassador too. 

[83owl]

1 hour ago, heppers said:

There is clearly a problem with Westwood. Managers don't want him in their set up despite his ability.

 

I think we need to move on.

 

Leeds had a similar issue with Pontus J. They moved him on for the good of the team.

 

We need a fresh start with a new culture.

Didn’t the Pontus thing start after the derby game where they gave the ball back to score?

[kristmace]

4 hours ago, 83owl said:

He was deservedly dropped at the time, however I don’t think either Dawson or Wildsmith have taken their chance to make the position theirs. 

 

I agree with this. KW was in average form at best, he picked knock up and Dawson came in and initially did very well. 

 

The issue arose when KW was fit and then on the bench for the next game. He's never been on the bench in his whole SWFC career before and he clearly didn't like it and something must have kicked off behind the scenes. 

 

Since Christmas, Dawson and Wildsmith have both been poor but KW has not even been given a chance and has sat at home on full pay. That's the manager's decision and he needs to live with that and the resulting points tally.

Edited July 24, 2020 by kristmace

[Dutch McLovin]

15 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Westwood was dropping clanger after clanger last time he was allowed to play

The two young lads aren't good enough (and probably won't ever be)

We have four goalkeepers on the books and  yet we need a new goalkeeper

Well run club

Another clusterfuck that this club has made. Two keepers with potential (they had) which with good management and transition Westwood could have helped integrate one of them into the first team 2 years ago.

 

Im not saying i know the inner workings of the man but westwoods kids are growing up wednesday fans and he was happy to sign a new deal last year and seems to like the club, im sure if he was asked he could have helped in integrating one to becoming the clubs new number one, stepping in when a bad patch occurred. Other clubs manage this.

[Donny El]

1 minute ago, Dutch McLovin said:

Another clusterfuck that this club has made. Two keepers with potential (they had) which with good management and transition Westwood could have helped integrate one of them into the first team 2 years ago.

 

Im not saying i know the inner workings of the man but westwoods kids are growing up wednesday fans and he was happy to sign a new deal last year and seems to like the club, im sure if he was asked he could have helped in integrating one to becoming the clubs new number one, stepping in when a bad patch occurred. Other clubs manage this.

If Westwood is willing to do that then great. But he isn't willing to do it. the few keepers and ex keepers I know say KW is a right pain in the ass and a prima Donna ( this also includes some coaches views too )

[83owl]

1 minute ago, kristmace said:

 

I agree with this. KW was in average form at best, he picked knock up and Dawson came in and initially did very well. 

 

The issue arose when KW was fit and then on the bench for the next game. He's never been on the bench in his whole SWFC career before and he clearly didn't like it and something must have kicked off behind the scenes. 

 

Since Christmas, Dawson and Wildsmith have both been poor but KW has not even been given a chance and has sat at home on full pay. That's the manager's decision and he needs to live with that and the resulting points tally.

That’s pretty much how I understand it. Problem is as a manager he can’t just recall him after that, if a player is unwilling to be a part of the team and is dictating when and where they play then what’s the point of having a manager in the first place. 

[Dutch McLovin]

4 minutes ago, Donny El said:

If Westwood is willing to do that then great. But he isn't willing to do it. the few keepers and ex keepers I know say KW is a right pain in the ass and a prima Donna ( this also includes some coaches views too )

He wouldnt be now, i think he would have been willing before the club started banning him 

[Ian]

6 minutes ago, Dutch McLovin said:

He wouldnt be now, i think he would have been willing before the club started banning him 

I dont think he would have

[Guest]

4 hours ago, james o connor said:

Yeah most of those direct errors from himself . He’s had it . 

 

This is one of his worst games. The first goal is undoubtedly his fault, the second he should get something on if he comes for it but they score from a corner in the last minute with a player completely unmarked in the 6 yard box.

 

 

Westwood conceded 15 goals this season, he certainly wasn't at fault for all of them and never conceded more than 2 in one game. Compare that with the other 2 we have given a chance to.

 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Donny El said:

Westwood is good but past it.

Wildsmith is one for the future but will be a good number 2 to whoever we get in.

 

Wildsmith one for the future? He is 24 years old. He should have had a proper spell on loan somewhere by now to gain competitive experience and assess his ability and progress.

As for being a good number 2 to whoever we get in, what are you suggesting we do with Westwood? He isn't going anywhere with 1 year left on a good contract, unless we pay him off.

 

16 minutes ago, Donny El said:

If Westwood is willing to do that then great. But he isn't willing to do it. the few keepers and ex keepers I know say KW is a right pain in the ass and a prima Donna ( this also includes some coaches views too )

 

He should have shown more support for the other keepers and willingness to fight for his place/sit on the bench no doubt. 

Plenty of players have 'difficult personality traits' though. It's about being able to manage them effectively. More than half of the managers we have had since he has been here have been able to do that. Some ex keepers including ones that have played for us have also said they haven't had an issue with him.

[@owlstalk]

 

I don't think we should be surprised that Westwood is a way way better goalkeeper than a couple of young lads in the Under 23's

It's not even a debate

The real debate should be what did Westwood do (again) at the club to get him frozen out and why is he always 'injured'?

[Guest LondonOwl313]

13 minutes ago, Ian said:

I dont think he would have

Tbf if you were Westwood and you could see how poo the other two are would you be happy playing second fiddle to them? I wouldn’t and I’d kick off too.

 

We don’t know what was said between him and Monk but Westwood said on Twitter it was basically a frank exchange of views. He should have been back in as number one before the end of December so he’d only have had to sit on the bench for 2 or 3 games. Surely he wouldn’t have burnt his bridges unless Monk inexplicably told him he was no longer number 1 or something 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

6 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I don't think we should be surprised that Westwood is a way way better goalkeeper than a couple of young lads in the Under 23's

It's not even a debate

The real debate should be what did Westwood do (again) at the club to get him frozen out and why is he always 'injured'?

How do we know he’s injured? Can’t trust a word Monk says. 
 

I’d rather back the best players over a failing manager.. it’s probably a bit of both sides not giving in. A proper manager would be able to handle the situation

[83owl]

3 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Tbf if you were Westwood and you could see how poo the other two are would you be happy playing second fiddle to them? I wouldn’t and I’d kick off too.

 

We don’t know what was said between him and Monk but Westwood said on Twitter it was basically a frank exchange of views. He should have been back in as number one before the end of December so he’d only have had to sit on the bench for 2 or 3 games. Surely he wouldn’t have burnt his bridges unless Monk inexplicably told him he was no longer number 1 or something 

He’s hardly going to come out on twitter and say “if I’m not playing then I’m not sitting on the bench” is he.