Keeper

[trevdi9]

15 minutes ago, Swiss Toni said:

I haven’t a clue what went on but there were clearly clashes in personalities. Yes I agree you need the best players on the pitch but ultimately you want the best TEAM. 
 

Think times have moved on now and Hutchinson has gone and Westwood will probably follow. None of us seem sure if there’s a plan in place for a new manager, contract for Monk or new players.

but the team was doing well until he open'd his mouth in publc about the players , (I think it was after the wigan game) that is sacrosanct to the dressing room , as a manager you do not diss your players in public ,could that have been why westwood and Hutch were dropped because they fired back , Iwill give you a quote from PEP Clotet his one time number two at Swansea Leeds and Brum, , I have tried to suggest things to monk , but it is his way or no way in everything , apparently they had a big fall out over something rumour has it or the internet and now they parted their ways and no handshake at the game against Brum ,so I read 

[Swiss Toni]

3 minutes ago, trevdi9 said:

but the team was doing well until he open'd his mouth in publc about the players , (I think it was after the wigan game) that is sacrosanct to the dressing room , as a manager you do not diss your players in public ,could that have been why westwood and Hutch were dropped because they fired back , Iwill give you a quote from PEP Clotet his one time number two at Swansea Leeds and Brum, , I have tried to suggest things to monk , but it is his way or no way in everything , apparently they had a big fall out over something rumour has it or the internet and now they parted their ways and no handshake at the game against Brum ,so I read 

I get the impression that it’s similar with DC, it’s either his way or the highway. Just ask Roeder, Pearson etc.

[trevdi9]

8 minutes ago, Swiss Toni said:

I get the impression that it’s similar with DC, it’s either his way or the highway. Just ask Roeder, Pearson etc.

could be mate  it's a possibility

[KivoOwl]

Westwood - 14 games, 15 goals conceded - 1.07 per game

Dawson - 23 games, 34 goals conceded - 1.48 per game

Wiildsmith - 9 games, 17 goals conceded - 1.89 per game

[Swiss Toni]

Just now, KivoOwl said:

Westwood - 14 games, 15 goals conceded - 1.07 per game

Dawson - 23 games, 34 goals conceded - 1.48 per game

Wiildsmith - 9 games, 17 goals conceded - 1.89 per game

How often was the defence in front the same? Makes a big difference.

[heppers]

I thought my Mrs was a keeper.

[pat blondeau]

3 hours ago, Donny El said:

Westwood is good but past it.

Wildsmith is one for the future but will be a good number 2 to whoever we get in.

Too many fans say Dawson and Wildsmith are ‘ones for the future’.

 

Dawson is 25 and Wildsmith is 24. They’re not kids. Henderson is a couple of years younger than both of them. If a keeper isn’t good enough in his mid 20s the chances are he’ll never be good enough 

[Tommy Crawshaw]

2 hours ago, dan1980 said:

How many errors cost us goals .he give swansea 2 in 1 game

 

Ok I'll give you the 2 against Swansea. Both were from corners where he came for them and got a bump, with a different ref he could have easily had a foul on him given. Also in that game he made 2 stunning saves.

 

1 hour ago, torryowl said:

and  5 of them were down to him

 

In another thread a few weeks ago, I looked back at the 15 goals conceded by KW.

 

1. Reading away 3-1. Good Meite header,  KW no chance at saving.

2. Millwall away 0-1. Corner KW came for corner, didn't get there but defence at fault no one challenged giving Smith a free header.

3 and 4. Preston away 1-2. Both penalties.

5 and 6 Q.P.R. home 1-2. Both scored by Hughill, KW no chance with either.

7 Fulham home 1-1. KW saved first attempt, Cairney slotted rebound in, can't fault.

8. Middlesbrough away 4-1. McNair lashed in after ricochet in box from corner, no fault KW.

9. Hull away 0-1. Great Eaves header to top corner, KW no chance.

10 and 11. Blackburn away 1-2. 1st Adebayo towering looping header KW off his line, could be argued if he should have stayed on his line.

                  2nd Buckley shot, massive deflection KW no chance.

12 and 13. Swansea home 2-2. KW under pressure from 2 attackers dropped corner, Ayew hooked in. Another corner, poor defending KW                           missed punch, defenders switched off allowing Willmot to poke in.

14 and 15. West Brom. away 1-2. Robson-Kanu through one on one, can't fault KW. 2nd Palmer let ball over top go, KW had to come out and                      challenge attacker who went down easily after slightest of touches. KW unlucky. Austin scored penalty.

 

Other games played and kept a clean sheet.

 

Luton home 1-0

Huddersfield away 2-0

Wigan home 1-0

Leeds home 0-0

 

So out of the 15 goals conceded I think only one could be said to be KW's fault were, the 2 v Swansea and the one at Millwall.

 

What was noticeable though watching those matches again was how many brilliant saves he made to keep us in matches or help us win us matches.

 

The fact is we conceded on average a goal a game with KW in goal and without him we conceded nearly 2 a game.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

8 minutes ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

Ok I'll give you the 2 against Swansea. Both were from corners where he came for them and got a bump, with a different ref he could have easily had a foul on him given. Also in that game he made 2 stunning saves.

 

 

In another thread a few weeks ago, I looked back at the 15 goals conceded by KW.

 

1. Reading away 3-1. Good Meite header,  KW no chance at saving.

2. Millwall away 0-1. Corner KW came for corner, didn't get there but defence at fault no one challenged giving Smith a free header.

3 and 4. Preston away 1-2. Both penalties.

5 and 6 Q.P.R. home 1-2. Both scored by Hughill, KW no chance with either.

7 Fulham home 1-1. KW saved first attempt, Cairney slotted rebound in, can't fault.

8. Middlesbrough away 4-1. McNair lashed in after ricochet in box from corner, no fault KW.

9. Hull away 0-1. Great Eaves header to top corner, KW no chance.

10 and 11. Blackburn away 1-2. 1st Adebayo towering looping header KW off his line, could be argued if he should have stayed on his line.

                  2nd Buckley shot, massive deflection KW no chance.

12 and 13. Swansea home 2-2. KW under pressure from 2 attackers dropped corner, Ayew hooked in. Another corner, poor defending KW                           missed punch, defenders switched off allowing Willmot to poke in.

14 and 15. West Brom. away 1-2. Robson-Kanu through one on one, can't fault KW. 2nd Palmer let ball over top go, KW had to come out and                      challenge attacker who went down easily after slightest of touches. KW unlucky. Austin scored penalty.

 

Other games played and kept a clean sheet.

 

Luton home 1-0

Huddersfield away 2-0

Wigan home 1-0

Leeds home 0-0

 

So out of the 15 goals conceded I think only one could be said to be KW's fault were, the 2 v Swansea and the one at Millwall.

 

What was noticeable though watching those matches again was how many brilliant saves he made to keep us in matches or help us win us matches.

 

The fact is we conceded on average a goal a game with KW in goal and without him we conceded nearly 2 a game.

This is a good summary.. he also got sent off at Reading on the opening day when he came out when he shouldn't. There were a few things he did this season that he didn't do in prior ones like misjudge when to stay and go.

 

But the bottom line remains, an off form Westwood saw us win most games and concede just over a goal a game. Suggests his organisational presence is also very important to us.

 

I find it bizarre how many people on here think the other two deserve the shirt over him when the goals against are significantly more. I just think that strong personalities or players taking a big wage are off putting to a chunk of our fan base. They prefer triers and someone who keeps their head down while not earning a fortune even if its at the expense of results.

[gurujuan]

Tricky one this, both keepers have a chance, but they are making too many mistakes that are costing us. It may be that we require a more experienced number one, and give Dawson and Wildsmith half a season out on loan. Don’t think we should crucify them though, the same problem is effecting the likes of DeGea, and even England’s current number one, Pickford

Edited July 23, 2020 by gurujuan

[83owl]

1 hour ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

Ok I'll give you the 2 against Swansea. Both were from corners where he came for them and got a bump, with a different ref he could have easily had a foul on him given. Also in that game he made 2 stunning saves.

 

 

In another thread a few weeks ago, I looked back at the 15 goals conceded by KW.

 

1. Reading away 3-1. Good Meite header,  KW no chance at saving.

2. Millwall away 0-1. Corner KW came for corner, didn't get there but defence at fault no one challenged giving Smith a free header.

3 and 4. Preston away 1-2. Both penalties.

5 and 6 Q.P.R. home 1-2. Both scored by Hughill, KW no chance with either.

7 Fulham home 1-1. KW saved first attempt, Cairney slotted rebound in, can't fault.

8. Middlesbrough away 4-1. McNair lashed in after ricochet in box from corner, no fault KW.

9. Hull away 0-1. Great Eaves header to top corner, KW no chance.

10 and 11. Blackburn away 1-2. 1st Adebayo towering looping header KW off his line, could be argued if he should have stayed on his line.

                  2nd Buckley shot, massive deflection KW no chance.

12 and 13. Swansea home 2-2. KW under pressure from 2 attackers dropped corner, Ayew hooked in. Another corner, poor defending KW                           missed punch, defenders switched off allowing Willmot to poke in.

14 and 15. West Brom. away 1-2. Robson-Kanu through one on one, can't fault KW. 2nd Palmer let ball over top go, KW had to come out and                      challenge attacker who went down easily after slightest of touches. KW unlucky. Austin scored penalty.

 

Other games played and kept a clean sheet.

 

Luton home 1-0

Huddersfield away 2-0

Wigan home 1-0

Leeds home 0-0

 

So out of the 15 goals conceded I think only one could be said to be KW's fault were, the 2 v Swansea and the one at Millwall.

 

What was noticeable though watching those matches again was how many brilliant saves he made to keep us in matches or help us win us matches.

 

The fact is we conceded on average a goal a game with KW in goal and without him we conceded nearly 2 a game.

Think you should watch them again with your glasses on. 

[Tommy Crawshaw]

17 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Think you should watch them again with your glasses on. 

 

Go on then, which of the 15 goals he conceded do you think he was he at fault for, apart from the Swansea game?

[pazowl55]

51 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Tricky one this, both keepers have a chance, but they are making too many mistakes that are costing us. It may be that we require a more experienced number one, and give Dawson and Wildsmith half a season out on loan. Don’t think we should crucify them though, the same problem is effecting the likes of DeGea, and even England’s current number one, Pickford

And has the answer been to send them out on loan or keep the faith in them until they cut them out.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

4 minutes ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

Go on then, which of the 15 goals he conceded do you think he was he at fault for, apart from the Swansea game?

I'd also say from your descriptions and memory (not watched them back), one goal at each of West Brom and Blackburn plus the one at Millwall (if keeper comes they need to get the ball).

 

Interesting thing is that in games where he didn't make any mistakes we only conceded 1 or none at all.

 

When people appraise Dawson, they say well you can't pin this or that goal on him. But the number of goals going in starts averaging 2 a game. Suggests theres something else to consider like motivating and organising the defence. 

 

Its annoying that Monk binned KW off as we could have done with seeing whether he just had a loss of form or whether its something more. Now we don't know whether he's good enough anymore or not, and we could do with focusing resources elsewhere given we barely have any outfield players left.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Westwood was dropping clanger after clanger last time he was allowed to play

The two young lads aren't good enough (and probably won't ever be)

We have four goalkeepers on the books and  yet we need a new goalkeeper

Well run club

 

Why do you have to undermine your side of the debate with rubbish like this? Yes he made more mistakes than he has previously when named as the best keeper in the division when playing for us but you don't concede 15 goals in 14 games if you are making clanger after clanger.

We also never conceded more than 2 with him in goal this season, must just be coincidence given the amount of times we conceded 3 or more without him.

His attitude in terms of seemingly not being willing to take a place on the bench when not chosen is unacceptable but the fact is, even with his dip in form, he is still the best goalkeeper at this football club.

 

As of today we only have 3 first team keepers now, as the contract extension for Paul Jones came to an end. Money well spent! No appearances for us in any competition, did we really need an extra goalkeeper on the payroll, one who hasn't played a league game since playing in league 2 in 2016 and has only played 5 cup matches in the 4 years since then. 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

Yes he made more mistakes than he has previously

 

 

Thanks for the clarification
 

Glad you fully agree

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

7 hours ago, Lunny1968 said:

We need to take our rose coloured glasses off.  Prior to being dropped Westwoods form was abysmal.  Dawson and Wildsmith are not good enough.  A new keeper is required.

Abysmal should only be used for Wanky Wildsmith and Calamity Cam! Westwood hasn’t been at his best this season but nowhere near as poor as these two.

[trevdi9]

4 hours ago, heppers said:

I thought my Mrs was a keeper.

so did I,she buggerd off years ago  

[IWEDFM]

New keeper needed. Young lads don't inspire much confidence tbh although that's probably down to their lack of experience

 

We've done well in recent years where the GK is concerned. Bywater, Weaver, Kirkland, Westwood etc.

 

[casbahowl]

9 hours ago, Swiss Toni said:

Monk isn’t the only manager to freeze out Westwood. Just saying....

Good point but now that the “bad egg” cabal Is broken could there be a way back for him whilst one or both of the others go out and learn their trade in the lower leagues ( subject to restructure) on loan next season?