latemodelchild Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Animis said: In terms of your 1,2 & 3 points, these have been discussed on here previously: 1. It's not the 'incorrect' accounting year. It's in line with the UK accountancy rules/law. We clearly took advice on this. 2. MKowl and others have explained that as long as there was a legal and binding contract for the sale, the amount can be included into the financial year 17/18. 3. The valuation is not a market value one, but depreciated replacement cost, which was undertaken by a qualified and registered valuation practice/consultant. He's a pig who pretended to be a Wednesday Fan when we were doing better than them during their 7 seasons in the 'pub league' as their legend called it. For some reason he's reared his head again. Weird if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, sheffsteel said: I suppose it depends on the detail in the email. SWFC: Can we sell the stadium at market value to another company owned by the Chairman and put it in the accounts? EFL: Yes, it’s not against the current rules. .........weeks later the accounts are accepted by the EFL on good faith and agreed. ..............weeks after that the EFL scrutinise the accounts and find details that are concerning, 1: The sale of the stadium appears to be backdated and submitted into the incorrect accounting year. 2: No actual monies have been transferred into the SWFC back account....as though the sale still hasn’t happened. 2: The value for the stadium seems higher than expected market values....so the EFL now want a detailed explanation. An important factor is when the EFL agree the accounts are they expected to skim over them....so that they can be agreed in principle or is the expectation that the accounts are investigated In full before they can be agreed. Strange as well that, and I've mentioned it before, the company that actually bought the ground (although no money changed hands) wasn't actually set up until June 2019, then quickly dissolved five month later. How can we sell the stadium to a company that didn't exist until 11 months after the sale has happened? So many questions about the timings of it all remain unanswered. 11th Feb 2018 - Companies House informed of Katrien Meire's resignation. 27th Feb 2018 - Companies House informed we will be extending our accounting period by 2 months till 31st July. Why were these extra 2 months trading required? December 2018 - Chansiri advises that for the 17/18 accounts, the club broke spending rules by eight figures, when because of the ground sale we actually made a profit. No wonder the bloody case is taking so long to conclude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 It’s obviously not a clear cut case in either direction given the amount of time this has gone on. The EFL represents all clubs, several of which have made representations that they are not happy with what we have done. Policy, law, regulations get written, the authority may think it’s tight and all encompassing. However those governed by them may find some Grey area in and amongst it. Sometimes cases have to go to court, review panels, tribunals etc for a decision to be made that may then become a stated case for the future. It may result in those regulations, policy and laws amending. The EFL can go back to its members that complained afterwards and say that they gave it a go but an independent panel has decided there was no wrongdoing, however on the back of it the regulations have been changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, HarrowbyOwl said: Would agree with all that but you’d expect savvy owners to go into the venture with their eyes open and a strategy for navigating the realities of life in the Championship Thing is most successful businessmen go into ventures knowing that the right not make a profit for a while but have funds to cover their losses for a while. Chansiri had the funds but is being prevented from spending it. Seen some arguments that P&S is, in fact, a restraint of trade and therefore unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Am I right in thinking that Chansiri now has a 60 Million pound debt for the ground to pay off? 2 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casbahowl Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, latemodelchild said: He's a pig who pretended to be a Wednesday Fan when we were doing better than them during their 7 seasons in the 'pub league' as their legend called it. For some reason he's reared his head again. Weird if you ask me. There are 2 sets of football fans in Sheffield ........ Both are obsessed with Wednesday! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, nbupperthongowl said: I thought our charges would kick in if we were found guilty.....the theory being that we would get a fairer trial in a court of law, rather than the EFL kangaroo court which we were concerned about No courts involved. We brought a 'Board Dispute' case against the EFL before a League Arbitration Panel, disputing their right to refer us to a Disciplinary Commission on misconduct charges, including personal charges againt DC, KM and JR. The oucome of the arbitration case was never announced/published. All we heard was that the personal misconduct charges had been dropped. Next we knew was that the Disciplinary Commission case was proceeding. I really don't understand why there can't be more transparency from the club and the EFL about was is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrowbyOwl Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, darra said: Thing is most successful businessmen go into ventures knowing that the right not make a profit for a while but have funds to cover their losses for a while. Chansiri had the funds but is being prevented from spending it. Seen some arguments that P&S is, in fact, a restraint of trade and therefore unfair. But surely he and his advisors did due dilligence and were aware of the FFP/P&S rules before buying the club 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumboldowl Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 minute ago, HarrowbyOwl said: But surely he and his advisors did due dilligence and were aware of the FFP/P&S rules before buying the club But surely the FFP/P&S rules could be construed as an unfair restraint of trade, irrespective of any due diligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akbuk Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Am I right in thinking that Chansiri now has a 60 Million pound debt for the ground to pay off? Yes but over time and he will effectively be paying himself, he may have borrowed money for the purchase but that's his debt not the clubs. I think that's about right Edited July 23, 2020 by akbuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Just now, HarrowbyOwl said: But surely he and his advisors did due diligence and were aware of the FFP/P&S rules before buying the club Or did the advisors tell him to go big or go home? It nearly worked if they did. What gets me in all this nobody seems to be blaming Carlos. He got us to Wembley then for whatever reason changed things and we underperformed so badly and even more so next season against Huddersfield. Two of the biggest games in recent history and we didn't turn up for either of them. Arguably it was he who spent the money on players we didn't need that got us into this situation. Didn't we have something like 30 senior players on our books at one time with IIRC 7 strikers? Yet some would have him back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said: No courts involved. We brought a 'Board Dispute' case against the EFL before a League Arbitration Panel, disputing their right to refer us to a Disciplinary Commission on misconduct charges, including personal charges againt DC, KM and JR. The oucome of the arbitration case was never announced/published. All we heard was that the personal misconduct charges had been dropped. Next we knew was that the Disciplinary Commission case was proceeding. I really don't understand why there can't be more transparency from the club and the EFL about was is going on. Non disclosure agreement? Edited July 23, 2020 by darra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said: But surely he and his advisors did due dilligence and were aware of the FFP/P&S rules before buying the club I rather think that those 'advisors" told him that the ffp system was full of holes and easy to circumvent. Then the loopholes he expected to exploit namely inputting capital from shell companies were closed. I would also hazard a guess that those "advisors" were in the business of trading players and therefore had an incentive to provide erroneous advice. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Just now, ChinaOwl said: I rather think that those 'advisors" told him that the ffp system was full of holes and easy to circumvent. Then the loopholes he expected to exploit namely inputting capital from shell companies were closed. I would also hazard a guess that those "advisors" were in the business of trading players and therefore had an incentive to provide erroneous advice. Sounds about right to me. Doyen for instance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, latemodelchild said: He's a pig who pretended to be a Wednesday Fan when we were doing better than them during their 7 seasons in the 'pub league' as their legend called it. For some reason he's reared his head again. Weird if you ask me. I think he thought we'd forgot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Just now, darra said: Sounds about right to me. Doyen for instance. I try not to quote names but I don't think you are necessarily wrong, though they may have morphed into different entities whilst still remaining part of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Just now, ChinaOwl said: I try not to quote names but I don't think you are necessarily wrong, though they may have morphed into different entities whilst still remaining part of the beast. Not sure they told him that he could circumvent FFP but more like sold him the dream that to win the league you spend big or go home. It would make sense to someone who knew little about football and running a club that if you buy players with a good track record of scoring goals etc the riches would follow. Unfortunately for some of those players, they were past glories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Am I right in thinking that Chansiri now has a 60 Million pound debt for the ground to pay off? 14 minutes ago, akbuk said: Yes but over time and he will effectively be paying himself, he may have borrowed money for the purchase but that's his debt not the clubs. I think that's about right Essentially it's his debt, which is on separate company balance sheets. The issue crystalises when he comes to sell, if he wants to claw back his overall investment. He may, at this point, choose to lease the ground to the new owner and reclaim this element over 20 years or so @ £3m/annum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaOwl Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 minute ago, darra said: Not sure they told him that he could circumvent FFP but more like sold him the dream that to win the league you spend big or go home. So what is the difference? Surely spending big in anybone's mind would translate to high transfer fees and wages. That in itself should be an obvious indicator that it cannot be done within a £13 million average loss per year financial forecast. I would hazard a guess that DC was told that there were no implications exceeding the limits hence the "We've got friends" statement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
since59owe Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 15/04/2020 at 08:11, Kate said: SINCEEYYYYYY OI OI Too busy spamming twitter with pr0n to join us on OT? The EFL along with you are the bain of my lifè 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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