Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread 2020-2021

[cowl]

1 minute ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

The original post I was replying to was about changing the culture of the club including the expectations of the fanbase I don't think its unwise for me to comment about it?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about scouting etc at all I was responding to a part of a post I felt pertinent

 

But your view is that the expectations of the fanbase is an issue; it isn't - not even remotely.

 

If we started doing what Brentford do - our fans would absolutely chuffing love it.

 

By the way, you only have to go through Brentford's current squad - they've paid millions for that team. Hardly any of them did they pay less than a million, and there's only one or two free transfers.

 

Brentford have a policy of buying high quality youthful talent with an eye to their resale value - that's why they're enjoying some success now. Their fans are just passive (and highly fortunate) observers in the process.

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

I'm not blaming the fans for getting caught up!

 

The original comment was about changing the culture including the expectations of the fans as part of that I was merely making a comment on this

 

I agree with what you say mind

It’s a huge task to re-adjust those expectations when you go from a side pushing for promotion to a side starting the season on -12.

 

This is why the boom or bust approach is so risky. When fans are still paying the same prices for a product that is quite clearly not what it was 3/4 seasons ago, they’ll feel disillusioned and negative. 
 

What DC should do is reduce ticket prices in line with the clubs new expectations. That will be the way to get fans back on board. 

[Chris Apolon]

Just now, cowl said:

 

But your view is that the expectations of the fanbase is an issue; it isn't - not even remotely.

 

If we started doing what Brentford do - our fans would absolutely chuffing love it.

 

By the way, you only have to go through Brentford's current squad - they've paid millions for that team. Hardly any of them did they pay less than a million, and there's only one or two free transfers.

 

Brentford have a policy of buying high quality youthful talent with an eye to their resale value - that's why they're enjoying some success now. Their fans are just passive (and highly fortunate) observers in the process.

 

No it isnt at all. The original post said that there would need to be a change top to bottom including fan expectations on signings. 

 

I WANT OUT CLUB TO BE LIKE BRENTFORD IN HOW ITS RUN

 

I was only stating that back in 2017, the way we were run the way we scouted and who we signed that many fans would not have been happy with Watkins as a starter that's all

 

I'm not saying it makes a difference or not to the success of a signing 

 

I don't even know why we're having this back and forth I agree on most you've said

[Chris Apolon]

2 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

It’s a huge task to re-adjust those expectations when you go from a side pushing for promotion to a side starting the season on -12.

 

This is why the boom or bust approach is so risky. When fans are still paying the same prices for a product that is quite clearly not what it was 3/4 seasons ago, they’ll feel disillusioned and negative. 
 

What DC should do is reduce ticket prices in line with the clubs new expectations. That will be the way to get fans back on board. 

 

Agree with this, I sense a slight change with those at the top towards changing this approach and the pricing would go a long way to appease

 

[gurujuan]

I think big errors were made in recruitment post Wembley, not least duplicating every position with a thirty something player. In a way though, for a chairman, totally inexperienced in football, he probably saw it as, well it nearly worked in year 1, so we’ll beef up the squad and try again. It nearly worked, but because all the eggs had been put in the same basket, we were then left with a big problem. 
However, having learned those lessons, there is no excuse for making the same mistakes again. Last year we added half a dozen experienced players to the squad, despite talking about the emphasis being on recruiting Premier League youngsters. Again this season, despite all the talk, out of the four permanent signings, only one is a youngster We are simply not learning

[cowl]

10 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

No it isnt at all. The original post said that there would need to be a change top to bottom including fan expectations on signings. 

 

I WANT OUT CLUB TO BE LIKE BRENTFORD IN HOW ITS RUN

 

I was only stating that back in 2017, the way we were run the way we scouted and who we signed that many fans would not have been happy with Watkins as a starter that's all

 

I'm not saying it makes a difference or not to the success of a signing 

 

I don't even know why we're having this back and forth I agree on most you've said

 

If we're having a back-and-forth it's because you seem to implicate fan expectations in having some kind of causal role in how the club is run and whether this player or that player would be a success.

[Philb125]

21 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

But your view is that the expectations of the fanbase is an issue; it isn't - not even remotely.

 

If we started doing what Brentford do - our fans would absolutely chuffing love it.

 

By the way, you only have to go through Brentford's current squad - they've paid millions for that team. Hardly any of them did they pay less than a million, and there's only one or two free transfers.

 

Brentford have a policy of buying high quality youthful talent with an eye to their resale value - that's why they're enjoying some success now. Their fans are just passive (and highly fortunate) observers in the process.

But they didn’t start by buying multi million pound prospects did they? This is what they’ve evolved to after doing it for a few years of relative success in transfer market. They’ve been afforded the chance of buying better now, after years of gradually increasing revenue by buying low, selling high so to say. 
 

Now about the fans, not being as expectant or welcoming us playing Younger players at the cost of more experienced seasoned (maybe past it) pro’s. If singing for Westwood, when one of our own young prospects was in goals doesn’t give you an idea of what would happen I don’t know what is. Any other club would be chanting he’s one of our own! Not us.
 

Fox is another great example of someone bought from lower league with potential, boo’d onto the pitch or when his names read out. The ‘he’s never been a championship player’ brigade would not be chuffing themselves as you put it if we had these prospects coming through. The moment they have a bad run, we get on their backs! 

[cowl]

3 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

But they didn’t start by buying multi million pound prospects did they? This is what they’ve evolved to after doing it for a few years of relative success in transfer market. They’ve been afforded the chance of buying better now, after years of gradually increasing revenue by buying low, selling high so to say. 
 

Now about the fans, not being as expectant or welcoming us playing Younger players at the cost of more experienced seasoned (maybe past it) pro’s. If singing for Westwood, when one of our own young prospects was in goals doesn’t give you an idea of what would happen I don’t know what is. Any other club would be chanting he’s one of our own! Not us.
 

Fox is another great example of someone bought from lower league with potential, boo’d onto the pitch or when his names read out. The ‘he’s never been a championship player’ brigade would not be chuffing themselves as you put it if we had these prospects coming through. The moment they have a bad run, we get on their backs! 

 

You consider Fox, Dawson and Wildsmith failures then?

[Philb125]

18 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I think big errors were made in recruitment post Wembley, not least duplicating every position with a thirty something player. In a way though, for a chairman, totally inexperienced in football, he probably saw it as, well it nearly worked in year 1, so we’ll beef up the squad and try again. It nearly worked, but because all the eggs had been put in the same basket, we were then left with a big problem. 
However, having learned those lessons, there is no excuse for making the same mistakes again. Last year we added half a dozen experienced players to the squad, despite talking about the emphasis being on recruiting Premier League youngsters. Again this season, despite all the talk, out of the four permanent signings, only one is a youngster We are simply not learning

I think we have learned, but it may not be the lesson that you’re talking to. I think there’s been a conscious effort in past 2/3 windows to form a competitive squad but on vastly lower wages. And I think it’s something that needed doing too! 
 

We somehow, amassed a squad of highly paid, hardly played players that either weren’t fit to play at highest levels any longer or that we’d contracted at such high amounts no one will take them off our hands. 
 

If you look at the outgoings vs incomings of last season or two, the squad barring striker is probably better now despite not costing nearly the same as before. Not hard considering the likes of Abdi, Jones, Fessi likely costing as much in salary as Luongo, Fizz, Brown, Kachunga, Windass combined. 
 

But we’re not there yet, we still have players who at this level are extremely well paid; Westwood, Lees, JvA (although I hope his repeated salary is BS), Bannan, Reach and Rhodes. Now whilst some of these contribute, I’m not sure any of them are worth the money they are on here. Until we rid ourselves of the above, or at least most of them we can’t move forward. 

[Chris Apolon]

12 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

If we're having a back-and-forth it's because you seem to implicate fan expectations in having some kind of causal role in how the club is run and whether this player or that player would be a success.

 

I've never said that. I've said some players would not have been happy with him as a signing back in 2017. Don't think that's in dispute.

 

I never said that had we signed him, or any other players Brentford have, that they wouldnt have then gone onto be a big success. We will never know.

 

It is simply not how the club was being run then, and as a result the expectations of the signings would have been different too. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that it is how it would have been in 2017 for many fans.

 

There will always be a distinction between how clubs are run and signings that are made and the fanbase I'm not stupid. Unless the club is majority owned and run by the fans as, funnily enough, exeter are.

[Philb125]

1 minute ago, cowl said:

 

You consider Fox, Dawson and Wildsmith failures then?

I consider the treatment they received by our supporters to be anything but supportive. We’re a tough bunch to please, and some of our players that are often not the well paid players seem to become the booboys whilst others seemingly have a free pass. 
 

With that mentality, any young player being brought in, in my opinion is on a hiding to nothing as the moment they hit a sticky patch they are rounded upon very quickly. 
 

Look at the new lad Fizz! There’s already tonnes of comments saying he’s never ready for championship football despite him never being tested at that level. 

[gurujuan]

5 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

I think we have learned, but it may not be the lesson that you’re talking to. I think there’s been a conscious effort in past 2/3 windows to form a competitive squad but on vastly lower wages. And I think it’s something that needed doing too! 
 

We somehow, amassed a squad of highly paid, hardly played players that either weren’t fit to play at highest levels any longer or that we’d contracted at such high amounts no one will take them off our hands. 
 

If you look at the outgoings vs incomings of last season or two, the squad barring striker is probably better now despite not costing nearly the same as before. Not hard considering the likes of Abdi, Jones, Fessi likely costing as much in salary as Luongo, Fizz, Brown, Kachunga, Windass combined. 
 

But we’re not there yet, we still have players who at this level are extremely well paid; Westwood, Lees, JvA (although I hope his repeated salary is BS), Bannan, Reach and Rhodes. Now whilst some of these contribute, I’m not sure any of them are worth the money they are on here. Until we rid ourselves of the above, or at least most of them we can’t move forward. 

That’s true to a certain extent, and as a rule, recruitment has been more targeted From that Jos window, when he brought in Hector and Onomah, things have taken a turn for the better. Sure Onomah didn’t quite work out, but looked a decent signing on paper. Some signings, of course, won’t work out, and we saw that last summer with our recruitment. However, it sort of fizzled out, as the younger players that were promised, never arrived. Monks first window was poor, though January windows are notoriously difficult. So far this window, it’s been OK, a few lower end championship players, one of whom, Brown, looks an excellent signing. Again though, only one young arrival. Will this window again fizzle out, or will we finally see some quality young prospects arrive. Time will tell I suppose. 
I agree this needed doing, and we needed to take a new approach to recruitment, but until we add that little bit extra, we will continue to struggle. 

[bladeshater]

So no rumours just people's drivel

[Craig enock]

4 minutes ago, bladeshater said:

So no rumours just people's drivel

Yep

[cowl]

2 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

I consider the treatment they received by our supporters to be anything but supportive. We’re a tough bunch to please, and some of our players that are often not the well paid players seem to become the booboys whilst others seemingly have a free pass. 
 

With that mentality, any young player being brought in, in my opinion is on a hiding to nothing as the moment they hit a sticky patch they are rounded upon very quickly. 
 

Look at the new lad Fizz! There’s already tonnes of comments saying he’s never ready for championship football despite him never being tested at that level. 

 

So...are they failures or aren't they? Because if not, I'm struggling to understand what your over all point is beyond stating that football grounds can generally be hostile environments.

 

I'm also wondering about all the examples of young players that have been booed out of the club only to be a big success elsewhere and progress to a level higher than which they occupied at Hillsborough.

 

There has been a fair number of negative comments about Dele-Bashiru after his debut. Big deal. There was a fair number of more positive comments too, again, big deal. Since Penney first made his debut there's been the whole range of comments about him too, with the latest being full of praise for him - and there's no point even supposing that should he next put in a poor performance, whether he'll get a load of criticism again, because it's guaranteed - and that's just how it is. And it's how it is at all clubs - especially those with more than 15k at home games.

[Bluesteel]

1 hour ago, Philb125 said:

Absolutely - we were doing very well at buying players with a point to prove and letting them realise their true value: Forestieri, Bannan, Lees, Westwood, Hutchinson  all spring to mind. But instead of selling them on and reinvesting once they’d proved their point. We decided to offer them bumper pay rises and keep the finished article. That article though often is well and truly finished! 

Im not sure the finished article is l finished all of the time as when we offered new contracts it was to keep them here at peak value and it is during that contract period when you need to sell at some point 

[Bluesteel]

1 hour ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

Agree with this completely 

 

If in 2017 we had signed a youngster from Exeter as a STARTER some of our fans would have self combusted 

To be fair there were a few people on here talking about him being the kind of player we should be signing. With the height, speed etc. 
 

I think had Bruce or Monk been in charge around that time we would’ve bought players like that but Carlos wanted players who would let the ball do the work  and DC seems to prefer players who are proven to some degree.

[cowl]

30 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

I've never said that. I've said some players would not have been happy with him as a signing back in 2017. Don't think that's in dispute.

 

I never said that had we signed him, or any other players Brentford have, that they wouldnt have then gone onto be a big success. We will never know.

 

It is simply not how the club was being run then, and as a result the expectations of the signings would have been different too. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that it is how it would have been in 2017 for many fans.

 

There will always be a distinction between how clubs are run and signings that are made and the fanbase I'm not stupid. Unless the club is majority owned and run by the fans as, funnily enough, exeter are.

 

You said there would need to be a change top to bottom including fan expectations. ‘Need’ as in a necessary pre-requisite for change.

[jp1981]

12 minutes ago, bladeshater said:

So no rumours just people's drivel

But, more importantly, have we got the fire on and are the Irons in it.

[s6 owl]

Forestieri signed for Udinese.