Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread 2020-2021

[Tea Baggins]

19 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

Whilst I admire the Brentford approach and would love us to be able to do it here, it’s not just our chairman and scouting team that needs to change but us as fans too. We have higher expectations than the fans at Brentford and demand instant success. They have the luxury of buying players that are rough diamonds and expediting their development by playing them. 
 

We on the other hand, even when playing players that are young and with potential to develop, all too often bemoan that young player or the manager for picking him.
 

I’m sure no one in 2017 thought Ollie Watkin would be a star striker being sold for tens of millions, which is why they played him on the wing for first two seasons before he got a regular run upfront this year. You don’t have to search back to far on here to see how us as fans don’t seem to like the idea of attacking midfielders or wingers playing upfront. 
 

Or take Da Cruz or Dawson as example. Players that seemingly have the attributes but need polishing yet they are deemed to not be of quality now so we must get better immediately. 
 

The point is, Brentford not only offer better scouting and foresight but also harvest a culture that allows for these players to develop rather than singing for the youngsters to be replaced by older aging players. 

 

Excellent post mate.

 

Try tell some fans that though.... you'll be made feel like you're the daft one! 

[Bluesteel]

It’s not just us. Smaller clubs don’t have the same culture as the bigger clubs and that is why they are good feeder and development clubs for the big teams. We are caught somewhere in the middle as we want to develop the talent but I don’t think the culture of the club copes well with it moving on (this is seen as acceptance that other clubs are better) so we typically keep them too long and lose out.

But we have had some players we could’ve made plenty on if not for FA charges or injury and we did with Joao.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Bluesteel

[Philb125]

5 minutes ago, Bluesteel said:

It’s not just us. Smaller clubs don’t have the same culture as the bigger clubs and that is why they are good feeder and development clubs for the big teams. We are caught somewhere in the middle as we want to develop the talent but I don’t think the culture of the club copes well with it moving on (this is seen as acceptance that other clubs are better) so we typically keep them too long and lose out.

But we have had some players we could’ve made plenty on if not for FA charges or injury and we did with Joao.

Absolutely - we were doing very well at buying players with a point to prove and letting them realise their true value: Forestieri, Bannan, Lees, Westwood, Hutchinson  all spring to mind. But instead of selling them on and reinvesting once they’d proved their point. We decided to offer them bumper pay rises and keep the finished article. That article though often is well and truly finished! 

[Chris Apolon]

44 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

Whilst I admire the Brentford approach and would love us to be able to do it here, it’s not just our chairman and scouting team that needs to change but us as fans too. We have higher expectations than the fans at Brentford and demand instant success. They have the luxury of buying players that are rough diamonds and expediting their development by playing them. 
 

We on the other hand, even when playing players that are young and with potential to develop, all too often bemoan that young player or the manager for picking him.
 

I’m sure no one in 2017 thought Ollie Watkin would be a star striker being sold for tens of millions, which is why they played him on the wing for first two seasons before he got a regular run upfront this year. You don’t have to search back to far on here to see how us as fans don’t seem to like the idea of attacking midfielders or wingers playing upfront. 
 

Or take Da Cruz or Dawson as example. Players that seemingly have the attributes but need polishing yet they are deemed to not be of quality now so we must get better immediately. 
 

The point is, Brentford not only offer better scouting and foresight but also harvest a culture that allows for these players to develop rather than singing for the youngsters to be replaced by older aging players. 

 

Agree with this completely 

 

If in 2017 we had signed a youngster from Exeter as a STARTER some of our fans would have self combusted 

[cowl]

People don't seem to realize that though Brentford have an entirely enviable set-up (far, far superior to ours), it's not as though they're signing players overlooked and unrated by others. They're often paying a lot of money now for the talent they're bringing in.

 

If we'd have brought a 19 year old Rico Henry in for 1.5 million from (then) League One Walsall we'd have immediately been impressed with him because he was already a very good player, and much better than even Pudil was at the time.

 

If you honestly think the Brentford fans must have some special depth of tolerance to watch the kind of players Brentford have been consistently bringing in for more than five years now, then I can only think it's because you don't realize that those players are already far more than mere unpolished diamonds before they've even kicked a competitive ball for them.

 

Our fans aren't the problem and never have been. Some will probably only ever grumble and moan, and others will only ever be positively supportive (to a fault), and there'll be the greatest many occupying varying positions between.

 

Some have moaned about loads of our better players initially. From Sterland and Hirst, to Brunt and Whelan, and it didn't stop any of them from having excellent careers. They were good players, of course, but it was at Wednesday that they first had the platform on which to develop.

 

The reality though is that we've really not had many young players coming through down the years. And I can't immediately think of many examples of young players that were essentially ‘booed’ out of Hillsborough only to make it big elsewhere - and really, you'd expect that to have happened a lot if our fans are such a detriment to the development of younger players.

[cowl]

Just now, Chris Apolon said:

 

Agree with this completely 

 

If in 2017 we had signed a youngster from Exeter as a STARTER some of our fans would have self combusted 

 

Not if we'd just payed 1.8 million for him, as Brentford did.

[Ellis Rimmer]

1 minute ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

Agree with this completely 

 

If in 2017 we had signed a youngster from Exeter as a STARTER some of our fans would have self combusted 

I don't think they would have at all

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

I don't think they would have at all

Some of us were imploring us to do just that, and steer well clear from the likes of Rhodes and Winnall. 
Thing is, that was in the past, the worrying thing is, I can see us making the same mistakes again

[SallyCinnamon]

2 minutes ago, cowl said:

People don't seem to realize that though Brentford have an entirely enviable set-up (far, far superior to ours), it's not as though they're signing players overlooked and unrated by others. They're often paying a lot of money now for the talent they're bringing in.

 

If we'd have brought a 19 year old Rico Henry in for 1.5 million from (then) League One Walsall we'd have immediately been impressed with him because he was already a very good player, and much better than even Pudil was at the time.

 

If you honestly think the Brentford fans must have some special depth of tolerance to watch the kind of players Brentford have been consistently bringing in for more than five years now, then I can only think it's because you don't realize that those players are already far more than mere unpolished diamonds before they've even kicked a competitive ball for them.

 

Our fans aren't the problem and never have been. Some will probably only ever grumble and moan, and others will only ever be positively supportive (to a fault), and there'll be the greatest many occupying varying positions between.

 

Some have moaned about loads of our better players initially. From Sterland and Hirst, to Brunt and Whelan, and it didn't stop any of them from having excellent careers. They were good players, of course, but it was at Wednesday that they first had the platform on which to develop.

 

The reality though is that we've really not had many young players coming through down the years. And I can't immediately think of many examples of young players that were essentially ‘booed’ out of Hillsborough only to make it big elsewhere - and really, you'd expect that to have happened a lot if our fans are such a detriment to the development of younger players.

Good post. It all comes down to recruitment really. Our recruitment when DC first arrived was to sign players who were ready made at this level in order to get out the division as quickly as possible. Nearly worked, but it didn’t. 
 

The fallout of that is having players reach an age of 28/29/30 without much resale value or room to develop further. It wouldn’t have been a popular decision at the time, but we could have probably sold FF, Lees, Bannan in their prime. But did we have the recruitment team to find better? At the time I don’t think we did, and questions remain over whether we do now. 

[Chris Apolon]

7 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

Not if we'd just payed 1.8 million for him, as Brentford did.

 

I'm not sure, back then we were "destined" for promotion and bringing in an untested at this level youngster would not have gone down too well with large sections of the fanbase

 

Obviously those who follow league 2 football may have known about him but I live in exeter and cant say i was too fussed about missing out.

 

In hindsight we have lost out but i don't know if many thought we did then given the types of players most wanted

 

Just a tad of an edit - I'd love for us to have the same structure as Brentford do now

Edited September 8, 2020 by Chris Apolon

[Philb125]

2 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

I'm not sure, back then we were "destined" for promotion and bringing in an untested at this level youngster would not have gone down too well with large sections of the fanbase

 

Obviously those who follow league 2 football may have known about him but I live in exeter and cant say i was too fussed about missing out.

 

In hindsight we have lost out but i don't know if many thought we did then given the types of players most wanted

Also worth noting he was bought as a winger, he’s been transitioned as a striker after two seasons playing out on wing. Anyone saying they wanted him over Rhodes or Winnal who we bought at time I think is mistaken. Maybe over Reach or Fessi but again they were both flying high, so can’t say I’d expect our fan base to want untested youth replacing them. 

[Ellis Rimmer]

4 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

I'm not sure, back then we were "destined" for promotion and bringing in an untested at this level youngster would not have gone down too well with large sections of the fanbase

 

Obviously those who follow league 2 football may have known about him but I live in exeter and cant say i was too fussed about missing out.

 

In hindsight we have lost out but i don't know if many thought we did then given the types of players most wanted

 

Just a tad of an edit - I'd love for us to have the same structure as Brentford do now

Why do you think that and what would it matter if fans weren't happy?

[cowl]

1 minute ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

I'm not sure, back then we were "destined" for promotion and bringing in an untested at this level youngster would not have gone down too well with large sections of the fanbase

 

Obviously those who follow league 2 football may have known about him but I live in exeter and cant say i was too fussed about missing out.

 

In hindsight we have lost out but i don't know if many thought we did then given the types of players most wanted

 

So what?

 

There's 20-odd thousand at Hillsborough most matchdays. Some will always moan. Quality proves itself.

 

Brentford paid 1.8 million for a League Two player. They were getting a special talent. They knew it, Exeter knew it, and practically every single scout operating in England knew it too.

[royalowlisback]

We are where we are, I don't think we have either the right management team in place, or the right recruitment team either, the next season or 2 will be a struggle until the the 3 year rolling ffp losses get in check.

 

The think with Brentford though, and they have been fantastic in the way they are run, and how they continue to produce performances and results, but in the next few years, if they don't get promoted, their fans will be moaning about how they sold all their best players to fund the new ground and so on.

 

Supporters moan when times are bad, and cheer when they are good, the same at every club.

[Chris Apolon]

Just now, Philb125 said:

Also worth noting he was bought as a winger, he’s been transitioned as a striker after two seasons playing out on wing. Anyone saying they wanted him over Rhodes or Winnal who we bought at time I think is mistaken. Maybe over Reach or Fessi but again they were both flying high, so can’t say I’d expect our fan base to want untested youth replacing them. 

 

I agree with this 100%. 

 

In 2017 we were a far different club than we are now and had, rightly or wrongly, far different ambitions.

 

Signing Watkins THEN over a proven winger at this level would have been seen as "lack of ambition"

[Chris Apolon]

1 minute ago, cowl said:

 

So what?

 

There's 20-odd thousand at Hillsborough most matchdays. Some will always moan. Quality proves itself.

 

Brentford paid 1.8 million for a League Two player. They were getting a special talent. They knew it, Exeter knew it, and practically every single scout operating in England knew it too.

 

The original post I was replying to was about changing the culture of the club including the expectations of the fanbase I don't think its unwise for me to comment about it?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about scouting etc at all I was responding to a part of a post I felt pertinent

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

I agree with this 100%. 

 

In 2017 we were a far different club than we are now and had, rightly or wrongly, far different ambitions.

 

Signing Watkins THEN over a proven winger at this level would have been seen as "lack of ambition"

Well it was the clubs strategy to get out of the league as soon as possible. Fans got caught up in the hysteria of spending money. But the long term consequences have been huge.

 

In truth the club wasn’t run sensibly at all in DC’s first 2/3 years. It was a short-term gamble. Instead we should have built solid foundations and been a bit more savvy and sensible with our signings. 
 

Hindsight is wonderful, but I wouldn’t blame the fans. The chairman made it clear his aims were promotion as soon as possible, so we joined him on the ride. 

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

Also worth noting he was bought as a winger, he’s been transitioned as a striker after two seasons playing out on wing. Anyone saying they wanted him over Rhodes or Winnal who we bought at time I think is mistaken. Maybe over Reach or Fessi but again they were both flying high, so can’t say I’d expect our fan base to want untested youth replacing them. 

He was Phil, but even then things were changing, and he was more of a wide attacker in that last year at Exeter, which is where Brentford played him. Those very changes to the game, that benefitted Watkins, sadly put the skids under Jordan Rhodes. It was evident back then, which was the reason some of us were anti the signing of Rhodes

[Chris Apolon]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Well it was the clubs strategy to get out of the league as soon as possible. Fans got caught up in the hysteria of spending money. But the long term consequences have been huge.

 

In truth the club wasn’t run sensibly at all in DC’s first 2/3 years. It was a short-term gamble. Instead we should have built solid foundations and been a bit more savvy and sensible with our signings. 
 

Hindsight is wonderful, but I wouldn’t blame the fans. The chairman made it clear his aims were promotion as soon as possible, so we joined him on the ride. 

 

I'm not blaming the fans for getting caught up!

 

The original comment was about changing the culture including the expectations of the fans as part of that I was merely making a comment on this

 

I agree with what you say mind

[malek]

For years we refused to regenerate our squad, both in transfer market and by not developing players coming out of U-23 squad.

 

Every youngster (if anyone) who makes it here in next few years will do so despite "the club", not because of it.