Bottom of the pile

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

5 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Not as simple as that, yes they were successful under Carlos, but the likes of Penney, Thornley and Clare were out on loan. Hirst was frozen out, So it’s basically the same group of players who are struggling this time around

 

Meaningless for U23s to win their league and have no representation/ access to 1stXI.

 

Panic button being pressed by fans upset we conceded a two nil lead. 

 

Wasn’t their fault in 66 and it wasn’t their fault the other night. Pudil Lees and Joey gave Barnes the freedom of Hillsborough - they should have known better.

 

In my experience, as a fan base we have always been a bit suspicious of our home grown talent and I hope we don’t fall into the classic trap of thinking Prem loanees are automatically better than our own.

[Hookowl]

Talking about U23's why are their's and U18's player profiles no longer available on SWFC website ?

[S36 OWL]

5 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Much has been made of our young talent coming through, and rightly so, but as a poster pointed out in another thread, most of those promoted are not ready As if to emphasise this, our current U23’s are languishing at the bottom of the table. While results at that level are perhaps not so important, I do believe that the youngsters need to prove themselves at that level. Plenty of plaudits on here for the way Jos has brought young players through, but it is about timing. Yes Penney and Thornley look the part, but perhaps the coach has introduced the others too soon. Anyone can fill the side with youth players, but they have to be worthy of a starting place

 

The reason the U23,s are bottom of the table could be because we have severely weakened the team by promoting a lot of the. To the first team squad ? 

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

5 hours ago, Sultan_Pepper said:

Haven't our under 23's been top two in the league the last couple of seasons? or am I thinking of the under 18s?

 

Would think their current position could be due to the better players being in the senior squad instead of u23 match teams and us playing younger players in there instead of Jones and Abdi etc

Those players who did so well in previous seasons are all now playing in the first team. Lol

[FreshOwl]

30 minutes ago, Rogerwyldesmullet said:

 

Meaningless for U23s to win their league and have no representation/ access to 1stXI.

 

Panic button being pressed by fans upset we conceded a two nil lead. 

 

Wasn’t their fault in 66 and it wasn’t their fault the other night. Pudil Lees and Joey gave Barnes the freedom of Hillsborough - they should have known better.

 

In my experience, as a fan base we have always been a bit suspicious of our home grown talent and I hope we don’t fall into the classic trap of thinking Prem loanees are automatically better than our own.

Good post 

[Lord Snooty]

I still think there's a case for a 'proper' reserve league.

But that's a whole other debate.

[asteener1867]

2 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

I still think there's a case for a 'proper' reserve league.

But that's a whole other debate.

case for a walking football league team with some of our players snoots.

There has to be a reason why such as Kirby, Preston etc are preferred on the bench to some others

[Lord Snooty]

4 minutes ago, asteener1867 said:

case for a walking football league team with some of our players snoots.

There has to be a reason why such as Kirby, Preston etc are preferred on the bench to some others

 

Agree. We've spent most of the previous two seasons mumping about the likes of Jones and Boyd being over the hall. Legs have gone.

Lose a two goal lead in the week and those walking footballers were the answer to many!

[Doghouse Daz]

Not particularly fussed about the use of youth players at the moment, we're sitting comfortably in the table,( though obviously could have been a lot sweeter) . Could have a twofold benefit in preserving more senior players for the big push (hopefully cavalry charge) come next half of the season, whilst also showcasing young talent for the dreaded P&S. 

[Pale Rider]

Let’s be honest if we get 2 or 3 decent quality Championship players from the same batch of under 23 players we will have done well. They can’t and won’t all be good enough. Class of 92 was a one off. 

[brando]

9 hours ago, debram said:

Only one way to find out if they are ready though, some will shine some wont, suppose its a thin line and part of jos job to make the choice

yeah and leave quality out Westwood,Hutch,Fletcher now and again as the best yet FF ,FFS

[debram]

1 hour ago, brando said:

yeah and leave quality out Westwood,Hutch,Fletcher now and again as the best yet FF ,FFS

Hutch is injury prone unpredictable and unlikely to last 90 mins, fletch needs managing due to injury problems, a bit of a grey cloud over Westwood, shame because he was quality but obviously theres a problem and no one is bigger than the club

[cowl]

11 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Much has been made of our young talent coming through, and rightly so, but as a poster pointed out in another thread, most of those promoted are not ready As if to emphasise this, our current U23’s are languishing at the bottom of the table. While results at that level are perhaps not so important, I do believe that the youngsters need to prove themselves at that level. Plenty of plaudits on here for the way Jos has brought young players through, but it is about timing. Yes Penney and Thornley look the part, but perhaps the coach has introduced the others too soon. Anyone can fill the side with youth players, but they have to be worthy of a starting place

 

What does proving themselves at U23 level actually mean? One of the problems with that level of football is that it just isn't competitive enough, and in any case, it's never going simulate a Championship game. The only meaningful test for any of these players is the first team and I think there's only one player for whom there's a legitimate question mark over whether he should be playing and that's Dawson - and that's only because we've got Westwood sat twiddling his thumbs. Of course, it's highly likely that Westwood not playing wasn't a footballing decision anyway.

 

I think Palmer's shown more than Baker this season, but there's not a lot in it, and it's hardly a travesty of selection when Jos has picked Baker over Palmer.

 

As for the others, only Preston has started a league game but hasn't played since (although I thought he did okay), and then there were Kirby's 15 minutes the other night, in which he was somewhat out of his depth, but just like Alex Hunt who after his 45 minutes against Sunderland in which he also struggled, hasn't played since, I'll be surprised if we see Kirby on the pitch again over the next couple of months.

 

The point being is that I suspect Jos knows full well about timing as when the youngsters aren't ready yet he doesn't persistently play them. But there's only ever one way to know how they're going to do in the first team, and that is to play them.

 

I also think it's obvious that though Penney has been rated quite highly, there does seem to be a fair degree of surprise as to just how well he has done, and given that Jos was happy to loan him to Mansfield last season, it's clear that Jos didn't think he was ready last season, and perhaps even harboured doubts still about whether he was up to it before throwing him in this season too; point being, those doubts will probably never be convincingly answered one way or the other whilst ever they're not tested in the first team.

[shezzas left peg]

Didn't we have a bit of a clear out in the dev squad at the end of last season and promote a host of younger ones from the U18s and have quite a few inexperienced lads around 17/18 in there???. 

I know when we drew 2-2 with Coventry someone said most of their team had league experience, so maybe the younger ones are now finding their feet in a more physically competitive league? 

[gurujuan]

7 minutes ago, shezzas left peg said:

Didn't we have a bit of a clear out in the dev squad at the end of last season and promote a host of younger ones from the U18s and have quite a few inexperienced lads around 17/18 in there???. 

I know when we drew 2-2 with Coventry someone said most of their team had league experience, so maybe the younger ones are now finding their feet in a more physically competitive league? 

No, no clear out. Yes, in the Coventry game, they fielded a young side, most of whom had league experience. My view is, that we have perhaps got a little bit carried away. and promoted youngsters prematurely 

[cowl]

1 minute ago, gurujuan said:

No, no clear out. Yes, in the Coventry game, they fielded a young side, most of whom had league experience. My view is, that we have perhaps got a little bit carried away. and promoted youngsters prematurely 

 

Who, guru? Name names.

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, cowl said:

 

Who, guru? Name names.

Right this is tricky, because I am in no way knocking these players, but in my opinion, Baker, Nielsen, Hunt, Lee, Stobbs and Preston, haven’t really done enough to warrant a first team place. We just seem to have got a bit carried away with promoting youngsters

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

12 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Much has been made of our young talent coming through, and rightly so, but as a poster pointed out in another thread, most of those promoted are not ready As if to emphasise this, our current U23’s are languishing at the bottom of the table. While results at that level are perhaps not so important, I do believe that the youngsters need to prove themselves at that level. Plenty of plaudits on here for the way Jos has brought young players through, but it is about timing. Yes Penney and Thornley look the part, but perhaps the coach has introduced the others too soon. Anyone can fill the side with youth players, but they have to be worthy of a starting place

Absolutely spot on my man.  I’ve been getting negged for this over the past week . Bar Penney, Thorniley and possibly Preston, the rest are nowhere near first team level.

[cowl]

11 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Right this is tricky, because I am in no way knocking these players, but in my opinion, Baker, Nielsen, Hunt, Lee, Stobbs and Preston, haven’t really done enough to warrant a first team place. We just seem to have got a bit carried away with promoting youngsters

 

Baker's the only one of those we're seeing play regularly though, and he's up against Palmer whose performance level is higher than Baker's, in my opinion, but not by much.

 

Preston had a start against Millwall and he's not played since. Nielsen, Hunt, Lee, and Stobbs haven't played in the league this season.

 

I'm not sure you've got a solid concern here.

[gurujuan]

3 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

Baker's the only one of those we're seeing play regularly though, and he's up against Palmer whose performance level is higher than Baker's, in my opinion, but not by much.

 

Preston had a start against Millwall and he's not played since. Nielsen, Hunt, Lee, and Stobbs haven't played in the league this season.

 

I'm not sure you've got a solid concern here.

My concern is, that they don’t stay in some sort of limbo, and go back to the U23s No way am I writing them off, but they haven’t done enough to justify being part of the first team squad