Carlos is missing us !

[HIGHERSTATE]

2 minutes ago, DELUDED OWL said:

You shouldn't be,it happens with the players as well,once a few decide a particular player is injury prone/old/cack etc it becomes a matter of fact within months.

 

'Why did we just burn that girl at the stake'

 

'I don't know, I thought you knew'

[chizumgeorge]

39 minutes ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

I wont give a bloke respect who ruined players and played them when not fit.

 

For a man who played negative tactics and neglected basic fitness. He did well because he had the most money to spend  of any manager in our history, had the players Gray brought in and kept fit. 

 

When it it was clear his attitude rubbed off our performances dropped. I raised concerns after the Rotherham win.

 

He tainted his ‘legacy’. Spunked our best 2 chances in 2 decades of gettting back to the premier league with negative tactics. 

 

Yeh let’s respect that shall we. 

No negative tactics at wembley just a poor performance from the players and as for negative tactics, what about jos playing with no forwards in the starting 11!! Are you going to slate him? I think not!

[TrickyTrev]

28 minutes ago, Lincs Owl said:

Strange how short peoples memories are.  Thrashing Arsenal, beating Newcastle three times and all the other great results are conveniently forgotten.

Finishing 4th and 6th were not failure.  Could be years before we finish top six again. 

Agreed, it is strange how short people’s memories are...

 

[StudentOwl]

1 hour ago, HIGHERSTATE said:

The relentless gloating in the other football section when swansea were relegated and the behaviour/comments of the fans last autumn says otherwise.

 

Why would you go on the internet to rejoice in the failings of a manager of a different team unless it somehow it affected you..?

You can be disillusioned at a period of time an ex-manager was here without hating him and without being disillusioned at other parts of his time here.

Equally, you can feel a bit embittered towards a manager that, intentionally or otherwise, managed to orchestrate a move to a higher division on the back of an extremely poor stretch of months that left us in the doldrums. A move that resulted in no compensation to us despite his change of employment happening in the space of just a few days. And you can also feel like a small piece of karmic justice is done when that individual doesn't get an easy ride at his new job.

 

None of that is hatred, none of that is forgetting the good work done beforehand. Yes, it's getting a bit of joy out of schadenfreude... it's akin to the captain of a ship refusing to buy enough bungs to plug the leaks, seeing him abandoning said ship as it starts to sink, only for him to find the lifeboat too is full of holes. It's not big or clever to get enjoyment out of it... but neither is it hatred. 

 

Certainly anyone that forgets the good work Carlos did in the first season is being a little bit stubbornly blind... but allow people their schadenfreude I say

Edited June 21, 2018 by StudentOwl

[lanzaroteowl]

40 minutes ago, Lincs Owl said:

Ah, but do we move upwards, sidewards or downwards.  That's the big question. 

 

Always onwards and upwards!

[Southie_Owl]

11 minutes ago, HIGHERSTATE said:

He did very well for about 2 years when he was here, that can't be disputed.

 

What happened after thats another story

 

I'm just amazed at the fickleness and genuine negativity of this forum...Well perhaps I shouldn't be..

 

The parts in bold are connected though, that’s the problem.  It turns out that during those first 2 years Carlos was alienating squad members, being relaxed about fitness levels and rushing players back to action against medical advice.  That resulted in us having an appalling season with players out injured or lacking in confidence, and in the vital season when our 3 years of FFP spending had to come to some success. A season where an average Cardiff side got automatic promotion, and the reason we weren’t competing was because of Carlos’ previous management approach.

 

And it’s not hindsight either as myself like others were critiscing Carlos during that second season with some of his team selections, formations and tactics - which many felt were making us drop more points that we should have. 

 

But anyway it’s all a matter of opinion and this topic has been done to death and it’s time to move on. 

[HIGHERSTATE]

1 minute ago, StudentOwl said:

 

'You can feel a bit embittered towards a manager'. ' It's not big or clever to get enjoyment out of it'

 

Kind of agree..but you can play it up or down...Hate is a strong word

 

But it's rather immature and stinks of bitterness.

[HIGHERSTATE]

16 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

 

The parts in bold are connected though, that’s the problem.  It turns out that during those first 2 years Carlos was alienating squad members, being relaxed about fitness levels and rushing players back to action against medical advice.  That resulted in us having an appalling season with players out injured or lacking in confidence, and in the vital season when our 3 years of FFP spending had to come to some success. A season where an average Cardiff side got automatic promotion, and the reason we weren’t competing was because of Carlos’ previous management approach.

 

And it’s not hindsight either as myself like others were critiscing Carlos during that second season with some of his team selections, formations and tactics - which many felt were making us drop more points that we should have. 

 

But anyway it’s all a matter of opinion and this topic has been done to death and it’s time to move on. 

 

I agree that he left the squad in tatters and compounded injuries..And the guy was as slick as it comes and obviously amazing at self promotion.

 

We can't compare ourselves with Cardiff..What about the other teams that had spent just as much (if not more) and ended up back in the same division as us.

 

But almost all of our fans bought into project Carlos and the second season he did actually achieve the target of reaching 4th...thats not to be sniffed at, despite not considering our long term future.

 

In my opinion he still is a good manager that had us playing sumptuous football in his first season.  His second season he tried a more defensive approach which was two games away from being a master stroke, despite many people moaning about it being difficult on the eyes. And when the squad started to fall apart and he ran out of ideas it was his time to move on.  Things like this happen to clubs all the time and most clubs in the Championship have ended up in this position at some point.  Sht happens, we move on.

[room0035]

56 minutes ago, HIGHERSTATE said:

He did very well for about 2 years when he was here, that can't be disputed.

 

What happened after thats another story

 

I'm just amazed at the fickleness and genuine negativity of this forum...Well perhaps I shouldn't be..

He came in with a fully fit team well drilled by previous manager Stuart Gray someone who got free agents in Lees, Lee, Hutch, Westwood who today when fit are the back bone of our team, Glenn Roeder assembled a team of loans, cheap signing and good players available for free and yes Carlos after 10 games got us playing as a team where work ethic and 100% passion and commitment was the norm - had we had played from game 1 and not game 11 we would have been promoted that season. But when up against an experienced manager in Bruce showed his tactically ability to not be of the level of his piers. Taking 4 months to get Hooper fit when signing on loan then permanently was a sign of what was to come with get player match fitness.

 

He then started to have his way with the team signing players not needed, bringing loan players who never played, only picking his favourites and not managing the team both off and on the pitch, bar a lot of lucky late goals and the ability of one man Fernando we would have been no where near the second season. Then another none existent preseason, 7-8 of the first team allowed to do what they wanted and injuries started happening to everyone as the team again had not been properly prepared for the rigers of the championship and a 50+ game season.

 

Yes we did get to Wembley but a measure of a manager is where where we when he arrive and where were we when he left - well we were lower down the league, saddled with a squad of aging 30+ players on silly contracts, our best young players leaving the club because of the favoritism policy of the manager and fans at loggerheads with each other. Had he stayed to the end of this season and not gone to Swansea we were heading down because half of the squad never played and the other other where never fit to play. See the comments of players like Nuihu coming out about the way the squad players were treated was an eye opener for even the most ardent Carlos fans.

 

I just wish there was a way we could have seen what would have happened had Gray been kept as manager and given the same level of backing as Carlos got, would we have got to the Premier League in the first year or even the play off probably not, but he would build a good work man like team mixed in with youth and bought quality I feel the team would now be in the premier league or fighting each year to be and not saddled with £20m of losses each year and a wage bill approaching £30m. But we will never know other than the team he ended up at after us Fulham where he still is and yes they are now a premier League team - so maybe that is your answer.

[Greengrass]

Think we have covered this before 

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

1 hour ago, chizumgeorge said:

No negative tactics at wembley just a poor performance from the players and as for negative tactics, what about jos playing with no forwards in the starting 11!! Are you going to slate him? I think not!

We actually scored in that match as opposed to Wembley...... and with a team of second picks and youngsters.

[jonesy87shef]

1 hour ago, chizumgeorge said:

No negative tactics at wembley just a poor performance from the players and as for negative tactics, what about jos playing with no forwards in the starting 11!! Are you going to slate him? I think not!

 

No, because he had sod all players fit. Eyebrows were raised from me, but I understood. Didn’t agree with it. Carlos was negative for over half his time in charge.

 

You've picked out 1 game where we had a lack of players and playing 3 games a week. I tend to look at what Jos can do when he has players at his disposal and time to train them. 

 

Basically to me, my criticism of Carlos is justified. Where as you trying to nitpick at Jos isn’t.

 

Why do some of our fans have some weird love in with the bloke. Wouldn’t surprise me if you were creeping after the Swansea game  

[HIGHERSTATE]

1 minute ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

Why do some of our fans have some weird love in with the bloke.

 

Why are some of our fans so bi-polar in their thinking?

 

He was the manager of football team that made mistakes..Not some foreign dictator who starves half his people.

[HIGHERSTATE]

35 minutes ago, room0035 said:

signing players not needed.

 

only picking his favourites and not managing the team both off and on the pitch,

 

bar a lot of lucky late goals and the ability of one man Fernando we would have been no where near the second season.

 

7-8 of the first team allowed to do what they wanted

 

Yes we did get to Wembley but a measure of a manager is where where we when he arrive and where were we when he left.  Incredibly few managers leave the club in a better state than when they arrive.

 

Had he stayed to the end of this season and not gone to Swansea we were heading down because half of the squad never played and the other other where never fit to play.

 

I just wish there was a way we could have seen what would have happened had Gray been kept as manager and given the same level of backing as Carlos got, would we have got to the Premier League in the first year or even the play off

 

This is mostly either opinion, guesswork, hopeful daydreaming or clutching on straws.  Or even perhaps owlstalk myths.

 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

They haven't

That's just a myth put about by Carlos sympathisers who just don't get that criticising his fitness regime, tactics, approach to certain players etc isn't hate

Rubbish he been nailed on here 

[room0035]

2 hours ago, HIGHERSTATE said:

 

This is mostly either opinion, guesswork, hopeful daydreaming or clutching on straws.  Or even perhaps owlstalk myths.

 

 

I really dont care the facts are Carlos was crap and Stuart Gray is now a Premier League coach.

 

No guess work or fairy tales

[chizumgeorge]

3 hours ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

No, because he had sod all players fit. Eyebrows were raised from me, but I understood. Didn’t agree with it. Carlos was negative for over half his time in charge.

 

You've picked out 1 game where we had a lack of players and playing 3 games a week. I tend to look at what Jos can do when he has players at his disposal and time to train them. 

 

Basically to me, my criticism of Carlos is justified. Where as you trying to nitpick at Jos isn’t.

 

Why do some of our fans have some weird love in with the bloke. Wouldn’t surprise me if you were creeping after the Swansea game  

For a start i thought carlos shoud have gone at christmas , i have no great love for him but i do think he deserves a lot more respect than he gets from some people on here fo what he did for us! As for Jos, im not nit picking at all, my opinion is that playing without any forwards at all is negative, no matter how you look at it. Especially in a game that personally i think we could have won!

[Eastleigh Owl]

Hope he remembered to exchange that £20 note for Euros, wonder what rate he got.

[theowlsman]

Surprised he didn’t get the Real Madrid job

[handworth52]

11 hours ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

The hatred of Carlos, who gave us our best football and 2 highest finishes since we left the Premier League, is absolutely bizarre

hatred is the wrong word , and as for the football the season we finished 4th was absolutely dire I can only remember 2-3 home games were we were entertained ,he was given 39 million a club debt free at the time and once he was given the pen to sign players (jan 2016)  he blew it now we are left with Carlos's legacy 2-3 years in the bargain basement until we shift are of Carlos's dross out.