FFP and all that.

[cookeh]

9 hours ago, pazowl55 said:

With parachute payments they should some how only be given to clubs to cover their excess wage bills from the premier league. To stop them from financial ruin. Not to do what villa did and say thank you very much now we can spend 86 million pound on players.

Makes a total mockery of it. 

 

This is the key point that the article just completely ignores. Parachute payments are there to cover your 'premier league type' expenses until you adjust your budgets to championship levels. Instead, most clubs seem to just throw that money into trying to buy promotion back to the promised land.. and Villa have failed in that gamble. Hopefully this discourages teams from going for the gamble.. but it probably wont. Parachute payments probably need more rules attached to them.. like that money can only be used for certain things. That might be tought to legislate well tho. End of the day, some of the clubs that gamble will lose.

 

But the obvious rule should apply.. if you can't afford to gamble then dont.

[Offside_Owl]

Parachute payments and an unfair advantage is a red herring really. Only one of the six teams promoted in the last two seasons had any level of parachute payments.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Offside_Owl

[room0035]

52 minutes ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said:

 

Problem you have then is the teams in the bottom half of the Premier League won't be able to attract the sort of players to give them a fighting chance of staying in the league - they'll just opt to join someone else who is less likely to be in a relegation fight or play overseas.

 

Then you'll have an even bigger gap between the big Premier League clubs and the rest, making the league even less competitive.

 

FFP (P&S) should be scrapped and clubs should only be able to spend money have - or their owner is prepared to fund.

Financial fair play should be just that fair for everyone all 24 teams in a league not a different rule for teams relegated or badly managed.

 

FFP needs implementing across every team not scrapping or we will have two or three teams abusing the systems Ala PSG and Man City and the rest will have no way to compete. It will of course never happen as the Premier league controls football in this country now and they will do what make them most money. 

[room0035]

1 hour ago, wednesdaywizard said:

 

 

Some teams already do and Villa did.  Interestingly (and hilariously) Micah Richards, who hasn't kicked a ball since 2015, would have been due a 100% pay rise back up to £70k a week had Villa been promoted.  He stays on £35k as it is since relegation.  Ross McCormack who is on a reported £45k/week and on loan in Australia would have been due a £1m bonus had they been promoted.

 

Course, had they been promoted it wouldn't have scratched the surface.

The things is every one know Villa will spend the cash again next year in the hope of promotion and if they don't the football league wont do anything.

 

Until we have a governing body with and guts this will continue the way it has gone ex prem teams doing what they want.

 

Can you image what would have happened if the EFL had said to Newcastle you have broken the FFP rule we are preventing you from being promoted until you get your finances in order. They would have ignored it and paid a fine.

[theowlsman]

9 hours ago, Big Jack said:

 Gut feeling is I cant see Bruce staying there much longer either.

 

Agreed. Hence why I asked in another thread if he’d gone yet. Won’t be long.

[Sticky belly]

9 hours ago, Big Jack said:

 Gut feeling is I cant see Bruce staying there much longer either.

 

My feeling on Bruce’s gut is that it’s now absolutely massive. I’ve heard he’s been injecting dumplings the fat, greedy barsteward.

 

[Inspector Lestrade]

6 hours ago, room0035 said:

The things is every one know Villa will spend the cash again next year in the hope of promotion and if they don't the football league wont do anything.

 

Until we have a governing body with and guts this will continue the way it has gone ex prem teams doing what they want.

 

Can you image what would have happened if the EFL had said to Newcastle you have broken the FFP rule we are preventing you from being promoted until you get your finances in order. They would have ignored it and paid a fine.

 

I would doubt that EFL has the legal right to impose such rules and if clubs appealed to the courts that they would be in a strong position.  EFL seem toothless cause they probably are. 

[theowlsman]

Anyhow, it doesn’t impact us.

 

We’re Sheffield Wednesday and we can do what we want.

 

Going to spend silly money and employ Bruce as our sponge man.

[BRADDO]

DC's going on a mad spending spree. 

 

The survey said so. 

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

On the one hand, always had a soft spot for Villa - loved that team that won the league and European cup - most of em remained under rated - Gordon Cowans was one of the best midfielders I ever saw, ended up at Bari in Italy rather than at one of our bigger teams back in the day when Serie A had loads more dosh than our league. On the other their tactics this past 18 months have so obviously been to stockpile players and buy their way out with proven performers it is a miracle Grealish even got a look in.

 

Meanwhile Sam Allardyce (for it is he) was the first bloke I heard speaking out against FFP when he got West Ham promoted a few years back. He made exactly the point that it would paralyse even “big” clubs stuck in the Championship from competing with their historic rivals in the Prem. 

 

It annoys me that short memory syndrome means kids/media/the world think eg Chelsea or Man City are “bigger clubs” than us, the same must apply to fans of Villa, Leeds Derby  Forest etc. They are just ludicrously financially doped and are annoyingly lauded for it. Back in the day, neither of them had better support than us - and we were more than competitive. 

 

The sad thing nowadays is that our once proud English football clubs rooted in local communities are just sat like tarts waiting for a rich stranger to wander along to fulfil their fantasies because they is the only way they can turn into Cinderella and attend the Premier League Ball. 

 

The set up now may as well be a free for all since it would probably make things more interesting. While the Prem top six might get crowded if Wolves/Fulham carry on like this and  Everton/Newcastle get their act together, my pipedream is that the current crowd of rich owners in the Championship will say “sod it” and form an alternative Prem II -  then a bit like the USA - NFL AFL we will have parallel leagues with a set of play offs to decide who is the best.  At that point consider salary caps etc and some Brexit style caveats to encourage the development of homegrown/ native talent.

 

Something has to happen soon ish because a full blown European league is around the corner and us and dem Blavdes will be further and further away from the top table. TBH for this city which just about gave birth to the game and has 50,000 fans attending second tier games, the best solution would probably be for George Soros or Bill Gates to buy Wednesday, United and Sheffield FC to form a mega club that will be future proofed and able to compete not just with the current “top six” but with Shanghai Utd, Barcelona, Mumbai Rovers and Real Madrid. 

 

 

 

[Carlton Palmreader]

On 01/06/2018 at 00:42, Lord Snooty said:

Freinds of mine sent me this article as a text. So apologies if I haven't managed to transfer it properly onto here. 

Not sure who it's by. But considering that FFP  is something that is likely to impact Jos' thinking this summer I wondered what you chaps make of this. The writer seems to think Villa are being hard done to.... etc etc...

 

 

Friends sent you that as a text?! Do they know they used their entire monthly allowance?

[Guest mkowl]

Top post Rodger 

 

Football is such a ridiculous business really where you are reliant on rich benefactors splurging huge sums of money in the hope of getting into a league where they can get a shed load of more money to splurge even bigger sums to stay there but with the inherent risk of losing it all. Your only out is finding a richer more gullible idiot than you are

 

I can understand investing large sums investing in a business that will make huge profits for years to come but there Isn't enough profit for it to work for everyone. 

 

Will it change ? This implosion has been talked about for years and not yet happened so probably not

[bigdan2003]

20 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

This is the key point that the article just completely ignores. Parachute payments are there to cover your 'premier league type' expenses until you adjust your budgets to championship levels. Instead, most clubs seem to just throw that money into trying to buy promotion back to the promised land.. and Villa have failed in that gamble. Hopefully this discourages teams from going for the gamble.. but it probably wont. Parachute payments probably need more rules attached to them.. like that money can only be used for certain things. That might be tought to legislate well tho. End of the day, some of the clubs that gamble will lose.

 

But the obvious rule should apply.. if you can't afford to gamble then dont.

 

Personally think the FA should introduce a system whereby a club has to prove it needs parachute payments to survive.  Look at Newcastle other year - they were able to offload over 30 million in players, and still have parachute payments. 

 

Its wrong and gives relegated teams an unfair advantage. I know it doesn’t always work out that way, look at Sunderland etc.  Although Villa have ultimately failed, surely the parachute payments has contributed to them being able to sign a whole bunch of players that other clubs were after. It may not have worked out, it’s not an exact science. But it still potentially gave them an unfair advantage over everyone else. 

 

They may not have used the payments, old DR what’s his face might be saving them in an ISA. In which case, don’t give it to them in the first place. Give the money to clubs in the football league that really need it. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by bigdan2003

[torryowl]

seems to me if the rule is you cant get over 39 million in debt over 3 years then cut your cloth  and  don't go over  ……...personally think clubs should be able to spend whatever they want but seen as they cant then they have to budget accordingly .if they decide to gamble on promotion by overspending then good luck to them if they pull it off but get no sympathy from me if they fail .  

[Offside_Owl]

I'll say it again, parachute payments are a red herring.

 

Last six seasons, so out of 18 promoted teams:

 

7 promoted with parachute payments:

11 promoted without parachute payments:

 

Net spend of teams promoted with parachute payments:

 

Newcastle - 2016/17 - £22.5m

Burnley - 2015/16 - £4.5m
Hull - 2015/16 - £21m profit
Norwich - 2014/15 - £1m
Burnley - 2013/14 - £4m profit
QPR - 2013/14 - £3m profit
Hull - 2012/13 - £7.5m

 

Average net spend of teams promoted with parachute payments in promotion season: £1.1m

 

And that's before we get on to the likes of Blackburn, Sunderland and Wigan who have been relegated with parachute payments.

[Musn't Grumble]

Nothing will happen until a Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal or a Liverpool gets relegated. If and when that happens, the rules will change instantly. And the chances of that happening are very small (although the situation at Chelsea could get very interesting if Roman / Putin really wants to get shut).

[Utah Owl]

The sense of entitlement in the OP is ridiculous. Poor Villa!

 

They have spent recklessly and now get what's coming to them. Tough it's happened before and will keep happening. The solution to me is very simple.

 

Abolish FFP and parachute payments. Just allow owners to spend whatever they want subject to the following provisions;

 

• It has to be their own money, or money raised from the clubs fan base by issuing share options to the fans
• No commercial loans allowed
• In the event of a club going into administration they are expelled from the league totally and have to start again from the Conference (or even lower)
• The courts need to stop being quite so lenient with clubs that get into tax difficulties because it's left us all thinking we can keep pushing the limit because the courts won't put a famous club out of business (we pushed that same limit just 8 years ago and got lucky, very, very lucky)

Maybe if the penalties for financial failure are severe enough then both clubs and fans will realise that their expectations have to be more realistic and a degree of common sense will start to finally determine the way the game is run. The other thing is that if the money side is dealt with more sensibly then maybe, just maybe some of the leeches in the game (agents and players whose motives are purely mercenary as opposed to the players who really love the game) will move onto pastures new and stop ruining the game for everyone else.

[trumbullowl]

22 hours ago, Rogerwyldesmullet said:

On the one hand, always had a soft spot for Villa - loved that team that won the league and European cup - most of em remained under rated - Gordon Cowans was one of the best midfielders I ever saw, ended up at Bari in Italy rather than at one of our bigger teams back in the day when Serie A had loads more dosh than our league. On the other their tactics this past 18 months have so obviously been to stockpile players and buy their way out with proven performers it is a miracle Grealish even got a look in.

 

Meanwhile Sam Allardyce (for it is he) was the first bloke I heard speaking out against FFP when he got West Ham promoted a few years back. He made exactly the point that it would paralyse even “big” clubs stuck in the Championship from competing with their historic rivals in the Prem. 

 

It annoys me that short memory syndrome means kids/media/the world think eg Chelsea or Man City are “bigger clubs” than us, the same must apply to fans of Villa, Leeds Derby  Forest etc. They are just ludicrously financially doped and are annoyingly lauded for it. Back in the day, neither of them had better support than us - and we were more than competitive. 

 

The sad thing nowadays is that our once proud English football clubs rooted in local communities are just sat like tarts waiting for a rich stranger to wander along to fulfil their fantasies because they is the only way they can turn into Cinderella and attend the Premier League Ball. 

 

The set up now may as well be a free for all since it would probably make things more interesting. While the Prem top six might get crowded if Wolves/Fulham carry on like this and  Everton/Newcastle get their act together, my pipedream is that the current crowd of rich owners in the Championship will say “sod it” and form an alternative Prem II -  then a bit like the USA - NFL AFL we will have parallel leagues with a set of play offs to decide who is the best.  At that point consider salary caps etc and some Brexit style caveats to encourage the development of homegrown/ native talent.

 

Something has to happen soon ish because a full blown European league is around the corner and us and dem Blavdes will be further and further away from the top table. TBH for this city which just about gave birth to the game and has 50,000 fans attending second tier games, the best solution would probably be for George Soros or Bill Gates to buy Wednesday, United and Sheffield FC to form a mega club that will be future proofed and able to compete not just with the current “top six” but with Shanghai Utd, Barcelona, Mumbai Rovers and Real Madrid. 

 

 

 

I think the EFL actually has a lot of leverage over the Prem. And not just because they have a better trophy! The Prem is huge here in America, but wouldn't be without relegation. I think if the EFL

told the Prem to share the revenue or no more pro/rel they'd win out.

[The Dukeries Owl]

21 hours ago, A12owl said:

Isn't FFP anything like the rules of running a company?

It's my understanding that a company is trading illegally if it's liabilities exceed it's assets . 

How are football clubs continually allowed to trade at a loss when a company outside football Isn't?

I may be incorrect  but it is morally wrong.

 

 

Tell that to Tesla 

[torryowl]

4 hours ago, trumbullowl said:

I think the EFL actually has a lot of leverage over the Prem. And not just because they have a better trophy! The Prem is huge here in America, but wouldn't be without relegation. I think if the EFL

told the Prem to share the revenue or no more pro/rel they'd win out.

I tend to agree with you that EFL  should tell em to do one ……..but that will never happen as no championship club would vote for doing so .chansiri and all the other owners of the clubs have one aim and that's to make the prem and the riches that will bring them. take that chance away from them and they'll just walk away .