Offload dilemma

[Blue and white]

On 09/05/2018 at 17:36, jfr142 said:

So how.do we get rid of fletcher. Abdi. Fox. Jones. 

 

I'd let them all go in frees if anyone would have them.

There isn't anyone at the club who is untouchable, if the right offer came in for any player and that money was reinvested correctly then I have no problems letting anyone go.

[gurujuan]

12 hours ago, Tomswfc94 said:

Easier said then done but I like what pep has done with the city squad, keeps a nucleus of 18 for the match day squad with one or two on the fringes with the under 23’s making up the rest of the squad, this is something I think we should look at doing and I could see jos doing so. 

It’s what Valverde likes to do at Barcelona as well Me, I’ve never bought into our policy of two or three seasoned pros for every position It makes the squad too unwieldy Quite frankly, it didn’t do us much good when the injury crisis struck

[DuttyTeabags]

On 09/05/2018 at 13:54, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

I don't want us to get rid of Fletcher.

When he's been fit, he's been very good for us. He's an intelligent forward who holds the ball up well, unsettles defenders with his physicality, and has a decent strike rate for a striker of his type of a goal every 243 minutes. He was vital to our good run-in last season, and if it weren't for him going off injured against Huddersfield, we could well be in the Premier League right now.
 
The problem is that he's been injured for so much of his time here that we've barely had him fully fit and firing on all cylinders for more than a handful of matches at a time. This, coupled with his reportedly high wages, means that we're questioning his value to our team.

 

Having seen the improvement that Luhukay has been able to coax out of Nuhiu and João, I certainly wouldn't want to move Fletcher on just as he's finally returning to fitness, though.

He's been OK, misses quite a few sitters tbh - I remember having my head in my hands when he missed that open net away at Cardiff which would have put us within touching distance of top and been a kick in the cherries for Warnock and co.

 

We do have an opportunity to offload some of the higher earners and replace with better.  With Nuhiu being almost constantly fit, playing the role of hold up man very well and in decent scoring form I would say if we can offload Fletcher, we should.

 

Fletcher, Rhodes, Abdi, Jones, Fox can all do one.  One strategy we may employ is to say to high earners, "we'll pay you a lump sum bonus to offset any wage decrease you have to take to leave, upon promotion, tax free."

 

I think the likes of Rhodes and Jones would take this up to go play regular first team football if the right offer came in.  

 

That would leave us up front with AN, LJ, GH, FF, SW - if we can get cash for Hooper it may be worth saying bye bye too given his atrocious injury record.  Goes missing for large parts of every season.

 

It's time to leave emotion at the door and get aggressive on livening up this squad with hungry, quick, fit uns who can play 70%+ of the season vs a bunch of old crocs who cost a fortune....

[steelerian]

5 hours ago, DuttyTeabags said:

 

It's time to leave emotion at the door and get aggressive on livening up this squad with hungry, quick, fit uns who can play 70%+ of the season vs a bunch of old crocs who cost a fortune....

 

This ^^^

 

We all agree that our squad is too big, too old, too slow, as well as quite obviously overpaid.

 

No-one is untouchable.

 

The only 2 players i would be sad to see leave are Bannan and Fessi. But if the correct bid was received and we could improve the TEAM overall, then we let them go.

 

I put TEAM in capitals above, because for me that had been the biggest issue with our recruitment over the last 2 years. After Wembley we have spend too much money improving the squad without significantly improving the 1st team. What makes that even more crazy is that we have very good youngsters for cover who were criminally underused. I want to see us sign a stud this summer, someone who is going to be an undoubted starter for 40+ of the 46 league games next season.

[Hack-Abusi]

On 09/05/2018 at 23:52, BARMYARMY2010 said:

Ya gotta love this place....................July 2016 fletcher signs,this place laps it up,we can now finally get rid of "Big Dave" (the forums view,not mine),fletcher gets a season ending  injury this season and all of a sudden he's a crock,should never have signed him,blah,blah,f------g blah,Nuhiu has a purple patch for the first time in his time here,and he should be played ahead of Fletcher  when fit because its determined (on here) he's a crock,added to the fact he's on £35,000/£40,000 grand a week (unless of course you guys are gunna believe we have 5,yeh thats right FIVE players on £55,000 a week,bizarrely posted by someone on here.

.

Now i'm not saying Nuhiu shouldn't be kept,but come on,jeeees,Fletcher wee wee's all over Nuhiu for scoring.

Saying that though .. there were a lot of people up in arms at the financial package offered to Fletcher given his previous exploits (never played full season whether thats injury or selection and never been a prolific goalscorer) but yeah £40k a week for 4 years was a vast amount ..

 

He's had some good games i'll admit and won some games for us .. but for me, value for money isn't the best .. although not as bad as Abdi and Mattias ...

[vulture_squadron]

On 5/11/2018 at 22:10, Tomswfc94 said:

Easier said then done but I like what pep has done with the city squad, keeps a nucleus of 18 for the match day squad with one or two on the fringes with the under 23’s making up the rest of the squad, this is something I think we should look at doing and I could see jos doing so. 

Agree. And having the younger players around can make the older ones take more responsibility which is good for the dynamic.

[BARMYARMY2010]

48 minutes ago, Hack-Abusi said:

Saying that though .. there were a lot of people up in arms at the financial package offered to Fletcher given his previous exploits (never played full season whether thats injury or selection and never been a prolific goalscorer) but yeah £40k a week for 4 years was a vast amount ..

 

He's had some good games i'll admit and won some games for us .. but for me, value for money isn't the best .. although not as bad as Abdi and Mattias ...

That's kind of what i'm saying,no-one,absolutely no-one at the time was up in arms.....https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/242620-steven-fletcher-signs-official/.

Salary/wages offered guessed at.

Now of course i wouldn't expect you to read the 17 pages,but a quick perusal will confirm what i'm saying.

 

[Guest Jack the Hat]

On 09/05/2018 at 06:54, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

I don't want us to get rid of Fletcher.

When he's been fit, he's been very good for us. He's an intelligent forward who holds the ball up well, unsettles defenders with his physicality, and has a decent strike rate for a striker of his type of a goal every 243 minutes. He was vital to our good run-in last season, and if it weren't for him going off injured against Huddersfield, we could well be in the Premier League right now.
 
The problem is that he's been injured for so much of his time here that we've barely had him fully fit and firing on all cylinders for more than a handful of matches at a time. This, coupled with his reportedly high wages, means that we're questioning his value to our team.

 

Having seen the improvement that Luhukay has been able to coax out of Nuhiu and João, I certainly wouldn't want to move Fletcher on just as he's finally returning to fitness, though.

I like fletcher but don't you think the recent upturn in Nuhiu form along with SF injuries means he is an expensive luxury. One thing I like about him is he turns up for the big games - including being able to take a pressure penalty. But now I think Nuhiu could also do this. Think SF was supposed to be an upgrade on Nuhiu but recent form has blown those expectations out of the water!

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

52 minutes ago, Jack the Hat said:

I like fletcher but don't you think the recent upturn in Nuhiu form along with SF injuries means he is an expensive luxury. One thing I like about him is he turns up for the big games - including being able to take a pressure penalty. But now I think Nuhiu could also do this. Think SF was supposed to be an upgrade on Nuhiu but recent form has blown those expectations out of the water!

 

No, I think he's a valuable part of our squad. On previous form, Fletcher has shown more goal threat and probably better all-round play than Nuhiu. If Luhukay can improve Nuhiu's game to the extent that he has, then who knows what he could get out of Fletcher?

 

Even if it's nothing more than we've already seen, we'll need him as an alternative to Nuhiu at some points over the course of a season.

[davey_wells]

Sticking my beak in.

 

I'd say the only 2 players we would not be able to replace to the same or better standard are Fernando and Barry.

 

With those two in the side we are more than capable of winning the division.  Without, not a chance.

[DJMortimer]

6 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

On previous form, Fletcher has shown more goal threat... than Nuhiu.

 

From earlier in this thread...

 

On 5/10/2018 at 00:23, DJMortimer said:

 

Since summer 2012...

 

                                 CLUBS     GAMES     GOALS

Nuhiu                             2         113+115        40

Fletcher                             3          133+50         39

 

On 5/10/2018 at 00:28, DJMortimer said:

 

Since Fletcher signed for Wednesday...

 

                       GAMES   GOALS

Fletcher            39+22        14

Nuhiu                22+36        14

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

4 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

From earlier in this thread...

 

What I meant was that before Nuhiu's incredible goal-scoring form in the second half of the season under Luhukay (a goal every 120 minutes), Fletcher was scoring at a rate of a Championship goal every 261 minutes under Carvalhal, compared to a goal every 647 minutes for Nuhiu.

 

If Luhukay can transform Nuhiu in the way that he has, who's to say we couldn't see a similar improvement from Fletcher when he returns?

[Hack-Abusi]

13 hours ago, BARMYARMY2010 said:

That's kind of what i'm saying,no-one,absolutely no-one at the time was up in arms.....https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/242620-steven-fletcher-signs-official/.

Salary/wages offered guessed at.

Now of course i wouldn't expect you to read the 17 pages,but a quick perusal will confirm what i'm saying.

 

Absolutely not .. we all though Fletcher was an astute signing .. well most of us anyway.

 

My only reservations personally was his recent playing record (injuries) and not being prolific although I thought that would change with him being in the championship

[gurujuan]

When looking at our current squad, and at what we need, I’d say you could make a case for a maximum of 8 arrivals, and perhaps a dozen departures

However, I’m pretty certain we won’t see that sort of upheaval, mainly because, as stated, it will be hard to get rid of most of the unwanted players

Transfers are always a gamble, but it’s hard to believe we could have got last years recruitment any more wrong It was abysmal, and will cost the club millions 

I just hope to god, that the people responsible for that shambles, are not still in place The fact that DC still refuses to acknowledge that there was much wrong with our policy, is a big worry for me

[GazBricks]

20 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

When looking at our current squad, and at what we need, I’d say you could make a case for a maximum of 8 arrivals, and perhaps a dozen departures

However, I’m pretty certain we won’t see that sort of upheaval, mainly because, as stated, it will be hard to get rid of most of the unwanted players

Transfers are always a gamble, but it’s hard to believe we could have got last years recruitment any more wrong It was abysmal, and will cost the club millions 

I just hope to god, that the people responsible for that shambles, are not still in place The fact that DC still refuses to acknowledge that there was much wrong with our policy, is a big worry for me

 

Do you really think we need to bring 8 players? 

 

I think thats been the problem in recent summers. Singings what seem like for the sake of it 

[gurujuan]

3 minutes ago, GazBricks said:

 

Do you really think we need to bring 8 players? 

 

I think thats been the problem in recent summers. Singings what seem like for the sake of it 

No I don’t, we probably only need 4 or 5 

The higher figure was based on the unlikely scenario of 12 leaving In that case, we probably would need 2 or 3 extra younger players to fill the gaps in the squad

[Sonny]

 

I guess we can’t afford to not change our approach. Like literally can’t afford the old way.

[GazBricks]

Just now, gurujuan said:

No I don’t, we probably only need 4 or 5 

The higher figure was based on the unlikely scenario of 12 leaving In that case, we probably would need 2 or 3 extra younger players to fill the gaps in the squad

 

I see,  I think we need Fred to sign back, A wing back & maybe another centre midfield with Lee looking like he'll struggle to be back to his best and then maybe a few young Premier League lads to fill the gaps but we need to really trying push getting rid of 

 

- Palmer

- Boyd

- Winnall

- Jones

- Fox 

- Rhodes

 

and if right offers come in let Westwood go too

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, GazBricks said:

 

I see,  I think we need Fred to sign back, A wing back & maybe another centre midfield with Lee looking like he'll struggle to be back to his best and then maybe a few young Premier League lads to fill the gaps but we need to really trying push getting rid of 

 

- Palmer

- Boyd

- Winnall

- Jones

- Fox 

- Rhodes

 

and if right offers come in let Westwood go too

So much depends on whom we can shift, and the system we are going to play

Even if we are flexible with the systems, I don’t see Jos playing wingers, but if he wanted to, then that would complicate things

[GazBricks]

Just now, gurujuan said:

So much depends on whom we can shift, and the system we are going to play

Even if we are flexible with the systems, I don’t see Jos playing wingers, but if he wanted to, then that would complicate things

 

Yeah i don't there is going to be streams of clubs enquiring about the players mentioned except maybe Westwood and i think Palmer would do a job in League 1/Lower champ so maybe him too.

 

If we signed a winger from a prem U23 side on lesser wage who was quick and could maybe changed a game i think that would be a good signing personally. But i don't think he will play wingers unless really forced even he plays 4 in the middle its more of a narrow diamond