Offload dilemma

[BARMYARMY2010]

19 minutes ago, CLswfc said:

I think the best thing Nuhiu can do is find another club because he ain't appreciated here. If he scored 40 goals this season certain posters still wouldn't be satisfied but insisting 'crocks' are a better bet long term. Unbelievable.

Fletcher isn't a crock,thats just the owlstalk way of justifying getting rid,fletcher has a record of scoring,Nuhiu doesn't,and for the second maybe even third time,i don't want Nuhiu to leave,i just want fletcher to play more...............................not that difficult to understand really.

[dorian gray]

12 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

OK then, since Fletcher signed for Wednesday...

 

                       GAMES   GOALS

Fletcher            39+22        14

Nuhiu                22+36        14

you'd be open to the argument that jos has 'turned' nuhiu's fortunes, without these latter goals atty's figures would look far less impressive, also will jos 'enable' fletcher to become a goal scoring m/c?

[DJMortimer]

4 hours ago, BARMYARMY2010 said:

Nuhiu's been here 5 bloody years man,comparison is ridiculous.

 

In the last 6 years, there is simply no evidence that Fletcher is more prolific than Nuhiu, no matter how you choose to divide up the numbers. Going back to an earlier post of mine in this thread...

 

13 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Since summer 2012...

 

                                 CLUBS     GAMES     GOALS

Nuhiu                             2         113+115        40

Fletcher                             3          133+50         39

 

[Mr. Tom]

2 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Fletch was fit the entire of last season.. and all of the season before that.. and all of the season before that.. was injured for like 3 games the season before that.. don't take 1 season and make it the standard for a players career. that's a stupid thing to do.

 

Hoops on the other hand does have a significant absence every single season ever since he left Celtic. He's 30 now, and if we can get 5m+ we should absolutely cash in. Top player when he plays, but that seems to be less and less each year and soon he'll be worth nothing.

 

He's made 61 appearances for us in all competitions since signing in July 2016, from a total of around 100 possible games. That's not bad at all, and I wasn't saying it was a shocking record or anything. A lot of those appearances were as sub, though, and usually that's not because he's been deemed not good enough - but because he isn't generally seen as a safe bet for 90min. That's due in part to his age and energy, which is fair enough, but quite often it's because he's 'carrying a knock'. Also fair enough given how he plays, but it's an issue nonetheless.

 

I'm not criticising the bloke at all: he's a bit older, isn't renowned for having the greatest 'engine' in the entire world, and he certainly throws himself about - of course he's going to get knocks and need resting every few games. Regardless, I think my (very rough) assessment that, between him and Hooper, we probably get on average somewhere close to a 'full' 50 appearances over the course of a season, is about right.

 

Not sure why you think it's 'stupid', but fair enough fella.

[cookeh]

48 minutes ago, Mr. Tom said:

Not sure why you think it's 'stupid', but fair enough fella.

 

You're switching from talking about availability and fitness, which you were saying was a problem with Fletch, to now re talking about whether he was picked by carlos during a period where he was rotating the forwards on a regular basis.

 

The fact remains Fletch has been fit and ready (bar a couple of games) for pretty much the entire of the last 5 years, except for this season when carlos' fitness bomb exploded thru-out our squad.

 

You talk about his age, like he's some washed up 34 year old.. he's just turned 31 about a month ago. He's fine. And given his game was never based around agility or blistering pace, He's probably got at least 3 good years in the tank.

 

The reason your post ticked me off if that folk keep going on about Fletch like he's some crock, and the facts just aren't there to support it.

 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Fletch was fit the entire of last season.. and all of the season before that.. and all of the season before that.. was injured for like 3 games the season before that.. don't take 1 season and make it the standard for a players career. that's a stupid thing to do.

 

Hoops on the other hand does have a significant absence every single season ever since he left Celtic. He's 30 now, and if we can get 5m+ we should absolutely cash in. Top player when he plays, but that seems to be less and less each year and soon he'll be worth nothing.

Whats he done this season. Nuhiu is the stand out, not Fletcher. Look at the present not past dear boy.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cookeh said:

 

You're switching from talking about availability and fitness, which you were saying was a problem with Fletch, to now re talking about whether he was picked by carlos during a period where he was rotating the forwards on a regular basis.

 

The fact remains Fletch has been fit and ready (bar a couple of games) for pretty much the entire of the last 5 years, except for this season when carlos' fitness bomb exploded thru-out our squad.

 

You talk about his age, like he's some washed up 34 year old.. he's just turned 31 about a month ago. He's fine. And given his game was never based around agility or blistering pace, He's probably got at least 3 good years in the tank.

 

The reason your post ticked me off if that folk keep going on about Fletch like he's some crock, and the facts just aren't there to support it.

 

 

Hes been an expensive omission then. Is that better. 40k  a week not a bad deal he got from Wednesday considering is it. Doubt he would have got that anywhere else fit or unfit. What do you think. Hope this post didnt tick you off

[frastheowl]

 

We certainly won't be getting rid of Morgan Fox. 

 

A player that fits the new profile of the squad. 

 

A defender that played in our fantastic run of clean sheets which proved a catalyst to keeping our season on track. 

 

And currently, the only left back on the books. 

 

With him and Reach to cover the left wing back option next season (Fox preferred in games when we need to keep things tight), we are reasonably well covered there.

 

As regards Fletcher, Jones and Abdi, I'm sure all of those players will be "available" for transfer, but I'm not sure there'll be a long queue outside Hillsborough of clubs wanting to take them. Fletcher might get a move to some obscure league abroad, Abdi might get a club back in Switzerland, and Jones might interest a couple of Championship clubs...just not sure many clubs will match their wage packet. 

 

 

[cookeh]

14 minutes ago, CLswfc said:

Whats he done this season. Nuhiu is the stand out, not Fletcher. Look at the present not past dear boy.

 

Well you've one upped your stupid post from earlier.

 

What's Westwood done this season?

What's Lee done this season?

What's Hutch done this season?

 

Look at the present, get rid of the lot dear boy.

[BARMYARMY2010]

3 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

In the last 6 years, there is simply no evidence that Fletcher is more prolific than Nuhiu, no matter how you choose to divide up the numbers. Going back to an earlier post of mine in this thread...

 

 

Cool post, doesn't alter my belief. 

[trevdi9]

On ‎09‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 07:27, steveger said:

 

Change the locks, simples

won't play take em away  

[handworth52]

10 hours ago, BARMYARMY2010 said:

Couldn't give a flying fart who's done what over ten years,Fletcher is IMO a better all round player than Nuhiu,ya can give the wages guess a rest fella.

the wages aint a guess anymore the wages were shown at a steering meeting , my guess of 40k a week was a little high he is on 36k  a week , though I got the total wage costs bang on in last accounts ,I stated that it was to rise to over 25 million ,it was 26 million ,this is now why jos continually goes on about u23s now as the 25k-45k a week players are no longer on our radar ,well not until quite a few leave over next 1-2 years, yer I do spout figures on here a lot but they are very relevant regards comparing players and value for money. fletchers not value for money I think 95% of us agree on that, you clearly think our 2nd highest earner is worth it ,even though he averages 6.5 goals a season over 10 years ,yet nuhiu managed 14 in half a season , I would loved to be proved wrong regards fletcher and see him fit all next season and banging in 20 plus ,but just don't see that happening. 

[Mr. Tom]

5 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

You're switching from talking about availability and fitness, which you were saying was a problem with Fletch, to now re talking about whether he was picked by carlos during a period where he was rotating the forwards on a regular basis.

 

 

No, I’m not. I stand by the claim that Fletcher tends to play for us when he’s available and fit, be it as a sub or starting, because he’s good - and when he doesn’t play, it’s usually because he’s unavailable, not simply that we’re rotating arbitrarily.

 

5 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

You talk about his age, like he's some washed up 34 year old.. he's just turned 31 about a month ago. He's fine. And given his game was never based around agility or blistering pace, He's probably got at least 3 good years in the tank.

 

 

Again, no, I mentioned his age - precisely once, in passing - because as a slightly older player, relatively speaking, it’s *a* factor in his availability over a full season of consecutive games. As is his full-blooded playing style, which I also mentioned once.

 

5 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

The reason your post ticked me off if that folk keep going on about Fletch like he's some crock, and the facts just aren't there to support it.

 

 

Well I didn’t. I agree with you, FWIW.

[DJMortimer]

6 hours ago, BARMYARMY2010 said:

Cool post, doesn't alter my belief. 

 

Often, debates are about nothing more than opinions and conjecture with no definite outcome. If you'd expressed your belief that Fletcher is on balance a better striker than Nuhiu, you are welcome to it and it can't be be absolutely refuted. In terms of their careers as a whole so far, you'd probably be right.

 

But in this case you've chosen a very specific, finite, objective and measurable parameter (scoring goals) and it has been PROVEN comprehensively wrong over several different periods of time dating back up to 6 years. Nuhiu has scored slightly more goals at a consistently more efficient rate than Fletcher since 2012. Simple as that.

[BARMYARMY2010]

3 hours ago, handworth52 said:

the wages aint a guess anymore the wages were shown at a steering meeting , my guess of 40k a week was a little high he is on 36k  a week , though I got the total wage costs bang on in last accounts ,I stated that it was to rise to over 25 million ,it was 26 million ,this is now why jos continually goes on about u23s now as the 25k-45k a week players are no longer on our radar ,well not until quite a few leave over next 1-2 years, yer I do spout figures on here a lot but they are very relevant regards comparing players and value for money. fletchers not value for money I think 95% of us agree on that, you clearly think our 2nd highest earner is worth it ,even though he averages 6.5 goals a season over 10 years ,yet nuhiu managed 14 in half a season , I would loved to be proved wrong regards fletcher and see him fit all next season and banging in 20 plus ,but just don't see that happening. 

Is that the same steering meeting where Mr Chansiri said "No one at this club earns more than £35,ooo a week"  ?

My support of/for Fletcher has got naff all to do with his wages or this new slogan "value for money" thats reared its head over the last 18 months or so,because its suddenly " En vogue" to believe or spout that shyte.

95 % agree on fletcher,aye alright fella.

[BARMYARMY2010]

11 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Often, debates are about nothing more than opinions and conjecture with no definite outcome. If you'd expressed your belief that Fletcher is on balance a better striker than Nuhiu, you are welcome to it and it can't be be absolutely refuted. In terms of their careers as a whole so far, you'd probably be right.

 

But in this case you've chosen a very specific, finite, objective and measurable parameter (scoring goals) and it has been PROVEN comprehensively wrong over several different periods of time dating back up to 6 years. Nuhiu has scored slightly more goals at a consistently more efficient rate than Fletcher since 2012. Simple as that.

Cool post fella,it is my belief that fletcher is on balance a better striker than Nuhiu,stats or no stats,it doesn't make me anymore or less unique because i believe it,i hope they both rip it up next season,and we get to where we hope to be...................................we can at least agree on that point.............................can't we ?

[DJMortimer]

3 minutes ago, BARMYARMY2010 said:

Cool post fella,it is my belief that fletcher is on balance a better striker than Nuhiu,stats or no stats,it doesn't make me anymore or less unique because i believe it,i hope they both rip it up next season,and we get to where we hope to be...................................we can at least agree on that point.............................can't we ?

 

The competition for places up front (assuming things stay pretty much as they are) will be very interesting next season. Not including Winnall (his injury probably prevented his departure this summer) we've got 6 very good options and the manager faces a challenge just trying to keep them all satisfied and focussed. 

[dorian gray]

15 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Often, debates are about nothing more than opinions and conjecture with no definite outcome. If you'd expressed your belief that Fletcher is on balance a better striker than Nuhiu, you are welcome to it and it can't be be absolutely refuted. In terms of their careers as a whole so far, you'd probably be right.

 

But in this case you've chosen a very specific, finite, objective and measurable parameter (scoring goals) and it has been PROVEN comprehensively wrong over several different periods of time dating back up to 6 years. Nuhiu has scored slightly more goals at a consistently more efficient rate than Fletcher since 2012. Simple as that.

was fletcher playing at a higher level during that period?

[dorian gray]

15 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

The competition for places up front (assuming things stay pretty much as they are) will be very interesting next season. Not including Winnall (his injury probably prevented his departure this summer) we've got 6 very good options and the manager faces a challenge just trying to keep them all satisfied and focussed. 

outgoing loans maybe the solution, and non too shabby for us too.

[Tomswfc94]

Easier said then done but I like what pep has done with the city squad, keeps a nucleus of 18 for the match day squad with one or two on the fringes with the under 23’s making up the rest of the squad, this is something I think we should look at doing and I could see jos doing so.