Carlos Out

[Animis]

2 minutes ago, Bouncing Owl said:

 

I would suggest that would be Forestieri and he should have been deployed on the left of a front 3.

 

Having a fresh and fit FF for the second half of the season could be significant. 

[darren906]

Everyone is coming out at the moment

[Past Member]

Just now, torryowl said:

you'd best hope he goes then coz there's zero chance he'd give free rein to another coach ....

 

Yes for me Carlos has to go. But if he stays; we need to hope he grinds out enough wins to keep us out of trouble.

 

Both teams on Tuesday looked like relegation candidates.

 

We've probably enough individual talent to keep us safe. But as a team we're clueless.

[Mr. Tom]

14 minutes ago, GoldGigsChris said:

Yep, I'm fed up of fickle fans changing their minds after each match. It's blind optimism without looking at the bigger picture.

 

Carlos has shown over the last 9 months that he's not the man to take us forward.

 

Change now or waste the season away.

 

How is backing stability 'fickle'? Seems the opposite to me.

 

I'm critical of the aspects of CC's approach that I don't like, and supportive of the ones I do. In many ways that's part of my role as a fan.

 

But above all, I want a settled squad, a settled staff, and a sense of the whole setup at Hillsborough being a sort of coherent footballing 'family' - not because I want anyone getting too comfortable, it should still absolutely be a meritocracy - but because I believe that's the way to foster as much commitment, loyalty, motivation and dedication to the cause as is realistically possible in the modern game.

 

'Fickle' will be those screaming loudest for change when things aren't going great, then saying we brought the wrong person in if we don't instantly see a massive turnaround, or we've gone backwards and it's even worse now, get someone else, rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Mr. Tom

[Lord Snooty]

18 minutes ago, Bouncing Owl said:

 

I would suggest that would be Forestieri and he should have been deployed on the left of a front 3.

 

I agree. Long held the view he's at his best on the left of a 3.

 

That said...

Statistically the best spell of his career has been at Wednesday under Carlos' stewardship.

 

[GoldGigsChris]

1 minute ago, Mr. Tom said:

 

How is backing stability 'fickle'? Seems the opposite to me.

 

I'm critical of the aspects of CC's approach that I don't like, and supportive of the ones I do.

But above all, I want a settled squad, a settled staff, and a sesne of the whole setup at Hillsborough being a sort of footballing 'family', because I believe that's the way to foster as much commitment, loyalty, motivation and dedication to the cause as is realistically possible in the modern game.

 

'Fickle' will be those screaming loudest for change when things aren't going great, then saying we brought the wrong person in if we don't instantly see a massive turnaround, or we've gone backwards and it's even worse now, get someone else, rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

 

On Sunday 90% of fans wanted Carlos out. By Wednesday all the threads are about backing the manager. That's fickle.

 

I can't believe your highest priority is a settled team and staff. I was looking forward to promotion and attacking, attractive football when Carlos took over.

 

Surely, you can't be saying Carlos outers are fickle because we only gave him 2 seasons to get it right?

 

 

[Holmowl]

27 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

Having a fresh and fit FF for the second half of the season could be significant. 

 

I fear your optimism is misguided.

 

A fit FF would be a huge boost, under a different manager.

 

Carlos has failed miserably to fit FF into a position that gets the best out of the team. He would have to move player of the month (Reach) or heaven-forbid play him as striker, and we know that fails. You could make an easy case that FF should replace Wallace, but Carlos won't, will he?

[gypsyowl]

loaning winnall out was criminal

 

if there was an option to cash in on rhodes that's the option we should have took

[Lord Snooty]

9 minutes ago, gypsyowl said:

loaning winnall out was criminal

 

if there was an option to cash in on rhodes that's the option we should have took

 

If Winnall isn't in our long term plans (and I'll take some convincing he was ever anything more than a back up in case we didn't get the Rhodes deal over the line) then him being on loan and scoring goals will surely only see his value rise.

If Carlos doesn't want to keep him I think there's every chance we'd make a profit on him.

[Past Member]

16 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

I fear your optimism is misguided.

 

A fit FF would be a huge boost, under a different manager.

 

Carlos has failed miserably to fit FF into a position that gets the best out of the team. He would have to move player of the month (Reach) or heaven-forbid play him as striker, and we know that fails. You could make an easy case that FF should replace Wallace, but Carlos won't, will he?

 

I love it how you say

'WE know that fails'

 

Got to admire your faith in yourself; despite being constantly proved wrong.

 

According to you; with FF out and no longer getting in the way of the golden partnership; we'd be battering the league & challenging the top 2.

 

Reality is we're in the bottom half. Although our league standing has never been an important stat for you.

Edited November 2, 2017 by zzmdu

[Mr. Tom]

24 minutes ago, GoldGigsChris said:

 

On Sunday 90% of fans wanted Carlos out. By Wednesday all the threads are about backing the manager. That's fickle.

 

I can't believe your highest priority is a settled team and staff. I was looking forward to promotion and attacking, attractive football when Carlos took over.

 

Surely, you can't be saying Carlos outers are fickle because we only gave him 2 seasons to get it right?

 

 

 

I wasn't calling anyone fickle, I was just pointing out what fickle is and isn't because I felt like backing him more vocally after good results was somehow being called fickle. I'm just saying people who show support for Carlos in general, given any individual win OR loss - and there are plenty of those people around - are anything but.

 

I'm not a relentless CC 'clapper', as they say, and like you have been massively irked by a lot of things this season and last.

 

But yeah, I do value stability hugely.

 

I'm also looking forward to a more exciting attacking game, and I think stability plays a key role in achieving that.

Constant rolling of dice with speculative new signings (which we've been guilty of) and new staff means that of course you might get lucky one time in ten, but statistically I feel the odds are stacked heavily against that approach.

 

Obviously I'm not saying stick with something terrible just for the sake of sticking, either - but the reality is we're a long way from being in that position, however much hyperbole we shovel on. We're not that far from getting to where we all want to be, and the last two seasons have both shown that very clearly by May.

 

Essentially I just don't believe that a change of manager would make the immediate positive difference we'd all hope. I think it would be the equivalent of scrapping the project and starting again from square one, which I feel reluctant to do whilst ever we're close. If we'd nothing to lose, I'd say sure, go for it - but the fact is we have plenty to lose as things stand.

 

Ps, I really don't believe 90% of fans wanted Carlos out on Sunday. I really, honestly don't think that's true.

The ones who do always make a LOT more noise. That has always, always been the case, at any team anywhere ever.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Mr. Tom

[TommyCraig]

Sounds to me that quite a fair few of you would have preferred us to lose to Millwall. Yes you'll say 'But it's my club and he's ruining it' or some other similar point of view. But go on admit it. You would rather us have lost so as to vindicate your point of view regarding Carlos. Denials don't mean it's not true. Time to look at yourselves in the mirror and say WTF am I doing here. I'll say it again, some of you would have preferred the Wednesday to lose to Millwall. I'm talking about the 'Carlos Out' shouters who won't let it go and won't even celebrate a win. I'm not saying you can't have a moan after a bad spell, that's normal and we all do it but the ones like a dog with a bone, the truly hateful ones who are going after DC now. Take a step back and have a word with yourselves.

[matthefish2002]

Yes at the moment I would still like to see CC moved on.

But of course if we beat Villa and a couple more games after that especially if played well I might change my mind.

Yes of course I am fickle.

 

A draw would be a good result at Villa but feel its the sort of game where we need a surprise win to give the players and supporters some belief back going into the international break after the poor form and other things off the pitch some people are not pleased about.

[Mr. Tom]

3 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

If Winnall isn't in our long term plans (and I'll take some convincing he was ever anything more than a back up in case we didn't get the Rhodes deal over the line) then him being on loan and scoring goals will surely only see his value rise.

If Carlos doesn't want to keep him I think there's every chance we'd make a profit on him.

 

I really struggle to understand people complaining about the Winnall loan. It was that or get rid before he'd had a chance here, which would've seemed far sillier.

Rightly or wrongly, the situation was that we'd ended up with a glut of very good strikers - heaven forbid! - and Sam (arguably the biggest ego of the lot) would never have settled for the bench week in, week out without making a right old fuss. That's a great quality in some ways...but it's also potentially bad for squad harmony, as we all know, and we seemed to be at a potentially shaky point in that regard already.

 

Loaning him out would've been a good plan. Organising a swap for a very capable and experienced player in a different position, helping strengthen our skilled but flimsy midfield into the bargain, was a great one.

[swfc1983]

I want Wednesday to win don’t care who’s in charge. If Wednesday put a run of 5 straight wins together then will Carlos out threads still be started before the next game after that? Because we’ve had a bad spell earlier in the season and it’s bound to happen again? CC has his faults but with some people now he could lead us to a play off final win and they would still want him out because we didn’t win the league with a record points total. Championship is a hard league, even harder I should imagine when supporters have already decided the manager is a dead man walking. 

[Shetland Owl]

Why bring this up, why not be positive. No team is ever going to win every match. 

[Mr. Tom]

39 minutes ago, GoldGigsChris said:

 

On Sunday 90% of fans wanted Carlos out. By Wednesday all the threads are about backing the manager. That's fickle.

 

I can't believe your highest priority is a settled team and staff. I was looking forward to promotion and attacking, attractive football when Carlos took over.

 

Surely, you can't be saying Carlos outers are fickle because we only gave him 2 seasons to get it right?

 

 

 

I fear this is the biggest problem we've had over the past two seasons.

Lest we forget, we were absolutely MILES off either of those things at the time.

 

Now we're not.

Still not quite there yet, despite showing signs during a belting first season under CC, but we've still been FAR closer last couple of seasons than at any point in the previous 17 years. Seventeen!

 

The cavalier 'promises' () made when DC came in remain the single most damaging thing this club has had to deal with during this era, IMO.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Mr. Tom

[ramone]

Zzzzzzzzz

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Who?

Forestieri 

[Mr. Tom]

10 minutes ago, swfc1983 said:

I want Wednesday to win don’t care who’s in charge. If Wednesday put a run of 5 straight wins together then will Carlos out threads still be started before the next game after that? Because we’ve had a bad spell earlier in the season and it’s bound to happen again? CC has his faults but with some people now he could lead us to a play off final win and they would still want him out because we didn’t win the league with a record points total. Championship is a hard league, even harder I should imagine when supporters have already decided the manager is a dead man walking. 

 

Agree with pretty much all of the above. And re: the part in bold, you'd think we'd be used to it by now - our last two decades have seen far more 'bad spells' than good, if we're being honest.

 

Again, it's the sudden rush of expectation and entitlement - which, frankly, came out of nowhere after a pretty extended period of being bang average - that seems to be leaving people, unbelievably, dissatisfied with consecutive top six finishes.

 

I get the entertainment agrument, I genuinely do. But would people really, truly be happier with the backroom staff if we were drawing every other game 3-3 and finishing up roughly where we are now in May?

 

I seriously think not.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Mr. Tom