Indoor Owl Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Earlsfieldowl said: CC just can't get it to work - which makes it look worse than it is. There is enough talent in it and decent manager with some vision and flexibility will fashion something out of it. We are not that far off being decent but we won't get there under the present coaching regime. That is what is so annoying. What colour is the sky in your world, where back to back playoff campaigns doesn't even warrant "decent"? We're much better than decent, if at times a little too pragmatically negative. Edited August 28, 2017 by Indoor Owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUMBELOWS91 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 39 minutes ago, Pulsar said: Why does everybody keep failing to raise our desperate need for a quality right back? More concerned about left back than right back- Fox looks like he's got cement boots on when someone runs at him Reach seems to forget which side goal side is on a regular basis Pudil is probably the best of a poor bunch, but lacks pace and seems to flag if he has to play 2 games in a week at full back. In fact I'd say right back is behind centre back, left back, athletic box to box midfielder and a direct wide man with pace in the list of concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Indoor Owl said: What colour is the sky in your world, where back to back playoff campaigns doesn't even warrant "decent"? I was talking about this season so far - not the last two. We have been average so far this term, as borne out by our results Edited August 28, 2017 by Earlsfieldowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike312 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Animis said: We've needed a dominant central midfield player since Hull bossed us in the PO final 16 months ago. The club brought in Jones and Abdi - neither were needed. I agree that Jones wasn't needed but in principle Abdi was a good signing. We needed an attacking central midfielder and he came with a very good rep, injuries have decimated him during his time here but let's hope he's over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouncing Owl Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, theowlsman said: We all agree then? Get midfield sorted and we go up? Owls Talk sorts out promotion at last. Well done lads. I think Kieran Lee and Barry Bannan are top top championship players, but in a midfield 3. Bannan is playing very well at the moment in a 2 with Jones but he would be even better in a 3. Farcical to play him in a midfield 2 with Hutch as he drops in between the centre halves. Completely barmy from Carlos! I think if those 2 were fit throughout the season playing in a 4-3-3 system with either Hutch or a top quality defensive midfielder behind them, we would be laughing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woozie Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, theowlsman said: We all agree then? Get midfield sorted and we go up? Owls Talk sorts out promotion at last. Well done lads. I don't see why not, providing everyone stays fit. Although I still think our fullbacks are too weak. 3rd time lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indoor Owl Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Earlsfieldowl said: I was talking about this season so far - not the last two. We have been average so far this term, as borne out by our results Fair enough. Average is the perfectly apt descriptor, it's not quite the catastrophe it's made out to be on Owlstalk, just a little sluggish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 If the midfield formations picked this season were up to scratch.... 1)We wouldn't be letting in soft goals. The backtracking from midfield, the support in front of the back four, and midfielders covering for defenders, would've made us tighter 2)We'd be picking up 2nd balls and not missing tackles. 3)We'd be creating more chances in front of goal, and not ending matches with a handful of attempts on goal. As the stats proved when we were consistently winning games, possession means nowt, its what you do with the ball when you've got it that counts. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, mike312 said: I agree that Jones wasn't needed but in principle Abdi was a good signing. We needed an attacking central midfielder and he came with a very good rep, injuries have decimated him during his time here but let's hope he's over them. We had two attacking midfielders, Lee and FF but CC didn't want them to do that job as he wanted the play a 4-4-2 with the two wide men playing the supporting role to the strikers, with the two central midfielders protecting the defence and hardly getting over the half way line. What I don't understand in all the midfield transfers and roles, is CC apparently fell out with McGugan because he wouldn't play in the top of the diamond or no 10 role. However, CC has rarely played this formation since. On Abdi, when CC does play the diamond formation with him at the top as in the first half against Sunderland, he abandons it. Now this may have been down to Adbi's 'injury', but surely if CC was convince with the formation he would have players on the bench to bring on to continue. He seemed too easy to sack it, and move to a more traditional one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 40 minutes ago, S36 OWL said: So basically we need to get rid of all our strikers ? Or all our midfielders. The funny thing is.... of the midfield was in place before the forward line. We only needed one. The right one..... Yet we've signed 6. None of who really suit the what we were crying out for. All we needed was a £15m Upgrade of Nuhiu. That was evident after the first 5 games of 2015 We've needed up with A decent target man A box only predator An average one having a purple patch And one who plays in the hole. Got Abraham on loan and we'd have saved ourselves best part of £20m and got the best out of our midfield and probably gone up. But hey Ho, what do I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, Woozie said: I don't see why not, providing everyone stays fit. Although I still think our fullbacks are too weak. 3rd time lucky I agree. I think we should simply play three centre halfs, and wing backs in a midfield 5 with a dominant Carlton Palmer type supporting Bannan and Lee/Abdi/FF just behind the two strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash77 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) Out of the large amount of midfielders we have no proper wingers with pace but we do have some energetic players, so 442 should prob be scrapped to get someone behind front 2 if we are relying on fb's for width. Hutch/jones/new Boyd/lee bannan/reach Ff/matias/abdi/bannan (away) Hooper rhodes Not sure if hutch, abdi or matias can ever be relied on for fitness or if ff going tho. Prob need a new defensive cm, maybe pudil could cover there if needed in meantime. Or a pacy winger if insistant on 442 but good ones aren't cheap and as ever we dont bother with young premier loan prospects preferring ageing players on big final contracts. Imo ff would thrive behind front 2 away from big markers offering some much needed pace, driving forward, running beyond strikers or pulling wide, but even if he stays doubt he would play there under a defensive coach like cc. Expect more of same, narrow flat 442, no wingers, no pace, going for 0-0 ht and 1-0 ft, anything else is prob wishful thinking. Edited August 28, 2017 by Ash77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Animis said: I agree. I think we should simply play three centre halfs, and wing backs in a midfield 5 with a dominant Carlton Palmer type supporting Bannan and Lee/Abdi/FF just behind the two strikers. If you're suggesting we just have a right go at the opposition, and let them worry about us, I think we're all in agreement apart from Carlos. We need to produce an Owls Talk book of coaching and present it to him. Owls Talk Coaching Manual On The Art Of The Possible And Dominating The Opposites. Sorted. Edited August 28, 2017 by theowlsman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said: Lee - Gives us that completley different dimension and when fit will help turn the close draws to wins. No doubt Bannan - Showing first season form once more. Dictates our rythmn now playing 15 yards higher. Hutch - I know there's divisions about his best role. But I'd never rule him out of some games in midfield. Sometimes you need a player to ,ix it up a bit. Jones - A steady ticker. Still think we'd see the best of hum at the base of a 3. But that's another debate. Abdi - You don't pay what we've played if there's nothing there. We just haven't seen it yet. Will we ever see it? At least he's got a couple of games under his belt now. Let's just hope he can use that as a platform Wallace - Out and put winger for me. Flits in and out too much, but I put that down to him being asked to play a nip and tuck role which doesn't get him in the right areas enough to do his damage. Still....he doesn't moan about it..... Reach - Showing glimpses of why we signed him. Work to be done but do think he'll prove long term a good addition Boyd - Pulled no trees up. But believe him addition good signing when he gets accustomed Forestieri - Left of a front 3 best in the division. We're not going to play a front three though because we have 4 centre forwards who work best in a two man forward line..... Matias - Clear as day in his first few games that he was signed to play at the left of a 4-2-3-1 . (With Wallace on the other side) We don't play thst way anymore. He's been injured a lot. And he hasn't the defensive mind to play wide in a four. Making him, however harshly it might seem ... redundant McGugan- - My summary. .. We don't play a system that gets the best out of any of these players. I think they are all good enough to give us one of the best midfield in the division. ... but they are all are 75% lining up in the combinations they do. That system won't change while we have our current striking option. Results Keep this system half of them have to go to be replaced by better suited. Change the system they can all stay but SF, SW, JR, GH need replacing up top for mobile, pacy types. We've a fantastic squad individually but a b'stardised mongrel of a squad as a unit. Cant agree with you this time. Played in their best roles, we have wonderful players. Problem is, Carlos reverts back to shoe-horning. Do you have any idea how strong our results were last season when Carlos didn't shoe-horn? Take away the results when FF played up top, and the games when Carlos played 3 rather than two CMs, and we blew the league away. The problem is you have merged the rubbish formation matches (Preston, play-offs etc) with the balanced side matches (Brum, Norwich, the six win run etc) without realising how chalk and cheese the results were over the season. Look at this year's five league matches so far....one shoe-horned match and we lost. The rest balanced and (not great but) undefeated. Edited August 28, 2017 by Holmowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerwyldesmullet Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Er .... that would be the midfield that bossed Fulham aka Real Madrid who have the best midfield in the league/ universe? FFS Sell first DONT BUY ANY MORE RUDDY PLAYERS. we are starting to look like my wife's wardrobe - too many things - can't fit owt new init - GETRIDDERSUMMAT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookone Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Earlsfieldowl said: I was talking about this season so far - not the last two. We have been average so far this term, as borne out by our results And yet we are a point better off than our last 2 playoff seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, A12owl said: Season 1 was high energy closing down from the front type game . Whatever happened to It? Pundits and opposition managers admired it. Fans loved it. Players had a togetherness which was easy to see. Played with freedom and were happy. Whatever happened to It? We want it back and we want it NOW. Yep, totally agree. Not sure we have the players to do it now Recent signings may bring something to the side, but it certainly isn't pace and energy After the play off final defeat, had we added a dominant centre back, a strong running box to box midfielder and at least one player with pace, we'd have been up by now A year later, we've spent £25m on 15 players, and not one of them addresses the Wembley shortcomings, so you'd have to assume we won't be switching back anytime soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerwyldesmullet Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 14 minutes ago, A12owl said: Season 1 was high energy closing down from the front type game . Whatever happened to It? Pundits and opposition managers admired it. Fans loved it. Players had a togetherness which was easy to see. Played with freedom and were happy. Whatever happened to It? We want it back and we want it NOW. I was thinking this miself - but I wonder if that just proved too tiring for the players? Agree that it was exciting - but how come we got duffed at MK and Charlton? How come we had all those draws at home? It's not like we were anywhere near the autos - something must have persuaded Carlos to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookone Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 What we need is a striker who can score 25+ goals in a season without the need of any other player having to pass the ball to him - now where do we get a chap like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rogerwyldesmullet said: I was thinking this miself - but I wonder if that just proved too tiring for the players? Agree that it was exciting - but how come we got duffed at MK and Charlton? How come we had all those draws at home? It's not like we were anywhere near the autos - something must have persuaded Carlos to change it. At what cost though? We still fell short, in fact we weren't really any better Any entertainment value also went out of the window All this and it cost us £25m to do it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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