So Now We Might Be Able To Sort The Midfield Out

[Dutch McLovin]

2 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

Lee - Gives us that completley different dimension and when fit will help turn the close draws to wins. No doubt 

 

Bannan - Showing first season form once more. Dictates our rythmn now playing 15 yards higher. 

 

Hutch - I know there's divisions about his best role. But I'd never rule him out of some games in midfield. Sometimes you need a player to ,ix it up a bit.

 

Jones - A steady ticker. Still think we'd see the best of hum at the base of a 3. But that's another debate. 

 

Abdi - You don't pay what we've played if there's nothing there. We just haven't seen it yet.  Will we ever see it? At least he's got a couple of games under his belt now. Let's just hope he can use that as a platform 

 

Wallace - Out and put winger for me. Flits in and out too much, but I put that down to him being asked to play a nip and tuck role which doesn't get him in the right areas enough to do his damage. Still....he doesn't moan about it.....

 

Reach - Showing glimpses of why we signed him. Work to be done but do think he'll prove long term a good addition

 

Boyd - Pulled no trees up. But believe him addition good signing when he gets accustomed 

 

Forestieri - Left of a front 3 best in the division. We're not going to play a front three though because we have 4 centre forwards who work best in a two man forward line.....

 

Matias - Clear as day in his first few games that he was signed to play at the left of a 4-2-3-1 . (With Wallace on the other side)

We don't play thst way anymore. He's been injured a lot. And he hasn't the defensive mind to play wide in a four. Making him, however harshly it might seem ... redundant 

 

McGugan-  - 

 

My summary. ..

We don't play a system that gets the best out of any of these players.

I think they are all good enough to give us one of the best midfield in the division. ... but they are all are 75% lining up in the combinations they do.

 

That system won't change while we have our current striking option.

 

Results

Keep this system half of them have to go to be replaced by better suited.

Change the system they can all stay but SF, SW, JR, GH need replacing up top for mobile, pacy types.

 

We've a fantastic  squad individually but a b'stardised mongrel of a squad as a unit.

Awesome post ! CC the problem 

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

It was exciting season one but whatever the formation the new tactic is

 

Keep the ball - the opposites can't score if we've got it

 

get behind the ball and run around a lot  - if they've got it ( hence purchase of Reach and Boyd)

 

waste time with goal kicks and stuff to make the clock run down - makes the game shorter especially away from home (hence  lack of sympathy for Westwood from Burton fans on  Saturday)

 

hope to God Bannan has a good game and one of our 25 strikers actually puts a chance away. 

 

And it actually works enough times to make it an option.

 

hope this helps! 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Rogerwyldesmullet

[brian joicey]

2 hours ago, Earlsfieldowl said:

 

CC just can't get it to work - which makes it look worse than it is.

 

There is enough talent in it and decent manager with some vision and flexibility will fashion something out of it.

 

We are not that far off being decent but we won't get there under the present coaching regime.

 

That is what is so annoying.

Nail on head !

[Pulsar]

3 hours ago, RUMBELOWS91 said:

More concerned about left back than right back-

 

Fox looks like he's got cement boots on when someone runs at him

 

Reach seems to forget which side goal side is on a regular basis

 

Pudil is probably the best of a poor bunch, but lacks pace and seems to flag if he has to play 2 games in a week at full back.

 

In fact I'd say right back is behind centre back, left back, athletic box to box midfielder and  a direct wide man with pace in the list of concerns.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't disagree more.

The options we have up front and in midfield are staggering if you can stand back for just a minute and view the options and quality we have. It's the system and coaching that is the real concern with those departments.

However, it has been evident for two seasons our two right backs are not good enough.

Palmer was very poor at Bolton and seems to be going backwards, hardly a good enough incentive for Jack Hunt to be at the top of his game who has the random decent performance.

[Jennz]

7 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

stop shoehorning central midfielders in on the wing would be a start. 

 

Worked for Alf in 66

[Orlando_Trustful]

Absolutely mental that we still in over two years haven't signed a winger with pace. 

 

Bring back Helan. 

[Lord Snooty]

 

 

12 hours ago, Holmowl said:

 

Cant agree with you this time. 

 

Played in their best roles, we have wonderful players. Problem is, Carlos reverts back to shoe-horning.

 

Do you have any idea how strong our results were last season when Carlos didn't shoe-horn? Take away the results when FF played up top, and the games when Carlos played 3 rather than two CMs, and we blew the league away.

 

The problem is you have merged the rubbish formation matches (Preston, play-offs etc) with the balanced side matches (Brum, Norwich, the six win run etc) without realising how chalk and cheese the results were over the season.

 

Look at this year's five league matches so far....one shoe-horned match and we lost. The rest balanced and (not great but) undefeated. 

 

 

 

Oh yes. I agree we got some super results. When players weren't shoehorned. .. that's really the point. We can still do quite well when players are slightly less shoe horned. Getting some of the players in their better roles and getting a bit more out of their quality.

 

But I still feel that we will continue to shoehorn when everyone is fit, as you said yourself. 

 

Still think we were one striker short of being there but signed a load that weren't needed for the style.

 

We were 10/11 of the way there...

 

Fernando         ???????      Wallace

            Bannan               Lee

                        Hutchinson 

Pudil        Loovens        Lees      Hunt

                        Westwood

 

 

 

[IstillhateSteveBould]

Hutch/Lee/Bannan is a perfect midfield 3. Even with Jones in for Hutch, it's still absolutely made to be a 3. 

 

Forestieri, our most dangerous attacker, is best utilised in a front 3.

 

Fletcher played most of his PL career as a lone central striker in a 451/433. 

 

Hooper's always excellent when we play with 3 forwards. He's perfect as a false 9.

 

Players like Joao and Matias are perfectly suited to 433.

 

Yet instead of playing the most suitable system, we plod along with a hybrid 442 system that bores everyone to tears, but makes us solid and has proven effective at pinching wins on a regular basis.

 

We'll never see the full potential of these players in a 442. I think the best we can hope for is limping into the playoffs, scraping through to the final and pinching it on the day. It might work but we could be so much better.

[Earlsfieldowl]

12 hours ago, Spookone said:

And yet we are a point better off than our last 2 playoff seasons?

 

I suppose it shows what can be achieved with average result/footy at this stage.

 

Unfortunately it becomes more important as the season goes on and is critical in the playoffs, as we have found out both seasons.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Earlsfieldowl

[Earlsfieldowl]

8 hours ago, qantas said:

 

Worked for Alf in 66

 

That was over 50 years ago - that said, Alf clearly knew how to get it to work.

 

Shame he is permanately unavailable.

[billyblack]

15 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

Lee - Gives us that completley different dimension and when fit will help turn the close draws to wins. No doubt 

 

Bannan - Showing first season form once more. Dictates our rythmn now playing 15 yards higher. 

 

Hutch - I know there's divisions about his best role. But I'd never rule him out of some games in midfield. Sometimes you need a player to ,ix it up a bit.

 

Jones - A steady ticker. Still think we'd see the best of hum at the base of a 3. But that's another debate. 

 

Abdi - You don't pay what we've played if there's nothing there. We just haven't seen it yet.  Will we ever see it? At least he's got a couple of games under his belt now. Let's just hope he can use that as a platform 

 

Wallace - Out and put winger for me. Flits in and out too much, but I put that down to him being asked to play a nip and tuck role which doesn't get him in the right areas enough to do his damage. Still....he doesn't moan about it.....

 

Reach - Showing glimpses of why we signed him. Work to be done but do think he'll prove long term a good addition

 

Boyd - Pulled no trees up. But believe him addition good signing when he gets accustomed 

 

Forestieri - Left of a front 3 best in the division. We're not going to play a front three though because we have 4 centre forwards who work best in a two man forward line.....

 

Matias - Clear as day in his first few games that he was signed to play at the left of a 4-2-3-1 . (With Wallace on the other side)

We don't play thst way anymore. He's been injured a lot. And he hasn't the defensive mind to play wide in a four. Making him, however harshly it might seem ... redundant 

 

McGugan-  - 

 

My summary. ..

We don't play a system that gets the best out of any of these players.

I think they are all good enough to give us one of the best midfield in the division. ... but they are all are 75% lining up in the combinations they do.

 

That system won't change while we have our current striking option.

 

Results

Keep this system half of them have to go to be replaced by better suited.

Change the system they can all stay but SF, SW, JR, GH need replacing up top for mobile, pacy types.

 

We've a fantastic  squad individually but a b'stardised mongrel of a squad as a unit.

Couldnt agree more. Its all about out system and tempo.

[Costello 77]

3 minutes ago, Earlsfieldowl said:

 

That was over 50 years ago - that said, Alf clearly knew how to get it to work.

 

Shame he is permanately unavailable.

He made his team in 66 feel superior and unbeatable.

It's been a management technique used many times since then.

[theowlsman]

We can get back to business now the CB recruitments are concluded.

[Dronowl66]

On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 19:55, theowlsman said:

......if money from a sale transpires (or we never had an issue with FFP in the first place, and declaring money problems was intended as a smokescreen to help with transfer negotiations, in light of extortionate demands). Delete as appropriate depending on how you see things.

 

Striker options - good (even with a possible departure / departures). I think it unlikely that Rhodes will leave btw.

Defence - options ok with the addition of Van Aken and Venancio

Midfield - erm, still needs tweaking. Polite way of saying our midfield options are not inspiring.

 

Lee - key player for me when fit but his injury record is concerning. Fingers crossed he gets a good run in the side and avoids further injury misery

Bannan - thank God we've got him. Team player who will give his all wherever he's asked to play. And generally stays fit which helps.

Hutch - solid but also a concern from an injury perspective

Jones - Darren Potters' twin and not the best tackler.

Abdi - a year of not having seen enough to form an opinion (not a great scenario).

Wallace - great when on top form. Like him. Consistency though?

Reach - Flatters to deceive. Can't make my mind up

Boyd - not seen enough yet. But not impressing so far

Forestieri on the left. Best thing since sliced bread but living in La la land and can't always see that a pass to a team mate is the best option / could be leaving anyhow

Matias - can just about remember he looks good sometimes

 

Try sorting a midfield out of that lot that is both solid and creative (between injuries and suspensions). Nightmare!

 

So in summary, no.1 priority now. Need to move on one or two, and get the jigsaw pieces right so we can consistently play 4 midfielders who, as a unit, can both create loads of chances for the strikers, and also get back to defend. Not seen much of that as a package recently. 

 

Sort this out and we'll go up. Midfield is a bloody mess.

 

 

Its just dawned on me that when you read down that list of players for four places how are we not tearing this league a new one and how can anyone possibly criticise the chairman , weve got the tools were just not bl.oody using them