Daily Telegraph on Carlos

[parkerowl]

1 minute ago, thewookieisdown said:

I think it's a valid aim, for sure, but whoever manages us next year I wouldn't want to say they've failed if we are not top two. 

But surely the remit for the job these days is to get Sheffield Wednesday in the Premier League? the best way to do that is be in the top two and avoid the gamble? 

 

Playoffs should be considered no more than a fall back IMO.

[WC1Owl]

1 minute ago, parkerowl said:

I prefer to be realistic. we all hope we win the play-offs, every single Wednesday fan does. But the reality is its a 1 in 4 chance. 

 

you didn't answer the question. when does playoffs become not enough for you ? 

 

You have to ask the question of what a change would accomplish. If you're expecting to make the playoffs, you have a significant chance of promotion every year. What do you realistically expect over and above that? 

[Tamworthowl]

7 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

Is everyone of the opinion then that if it takes 4 or 5 years to get up with carlos that's fine ? just keep doing as we are and eveyones happy ? 

 

genuine question. 

 

I don't think "happy" is the right term.

 

Id hope for promotion next year if not this. But I guess if we had four years of almost, but not quite, I'd say time for change even if there were  good arguments to explain the lack of promotion.

[markowl]

3 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

 

you didn't answer the question. when does playoffs become not enough for you ? 

Well seeing at this moment in time, it's one loss, talk of 4 or 5 is quite crazy really.

 

I'm hopeful we will be successful this season, if not I have every confidence the Chairman will make the right decision.

[parkerowl]

6 minutes ago, WC1Owl said:

 

You have to ask the question of what a change would accomplish. If you're expecting to make the playoffs, you have a significant chance of promotion every year. What do you realistically expect over and above that? 

I would expect that if we don't go up this season, next year we will be aiming for a top two finish. not playoffs.

 

would you honestly be happy going to wembley again, coming back a loser again, then DC coming out saying were going for 6th place again ?  

 

whoever the manager is....don't you think we are ready now squad wise, financially and fan base?

 

maybe i'm just on my own but IF we are in the championship next season I will be expecting a serious top 2 challenge. 

 

i'm done now , done roger all this afternoon!

 

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by parkerowl

[Big Jack]

I would hope Chansiri will follow the Brighton example and keep Carlos. There are many examples, Derby, Forest, Birmingham, Wolves, etc where constant change has brought nothing but a down ward trend.

[WC1Owl]

12 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

I would expect that if we don't go up this season, next year we will be aiming for a top two finish. not playoffs.

 

would you honestly be happy going to wembley again, coming back a loser again, then DC coming out saying were going for 6th place again ?  

 

whoever the manager is....don't you think we are ready now squad wise, financially and fan base?

 

maybe i'm just on my own but IF we are in the championship next season I will be expecting a serious top 2 challenge. 

 

i'm done now , done roger all this afternoon!

 

 

 

I agree. I expect that if we don't go up this year, we have a squad that should be challenging for autos next year.

 

All I'm saying is that making decisions on the future of the club based not on how well placed we are for the future, but on what we have just achieved/fallen short of, is the wrong way of looking at it. 

 

Obviously, the way we fall short, if we do, and the extent to which we do, will be relevant to an assessment of how fit for the future we are.

 

[thewookieisdown]

16 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

But surely the remit for the job these days is to get Sheffield Wednesday in the Premier League? the best way to do that is be in the top two and avoid the gamble? 

 

Playoffs should be considered no more than a fall back IMO.

We are possibly into semantics here.  Aim as high as possible.  Hitting the top two is going to be really challenging.  Brighton did it this year, but four seasons after their first serious promotion campaign.  I'm not staying necessarily stick with CC if we miss this year and then again next year.  Equally, if it were for me to appoint a new manager I wouldn't say to him "top two or your out".  By and large the Derby example seems to show that consistent chopping and changing doesn't work well.

[WC1Owl]

2 minutes ago, thewookieisdown said:

We are possibly into semantics here.  Aim as high as possible.  Hitting the top two is going to be really challenging.  Brighton did it this year, but four seasons after their first serious promotion campaign.  I'm not staying necessarily stick with CC if we miss this year and then again next year.  Equally, if it were for me to appoint a new manager I wouldn't say to him "top two or your out".  By and large the Derby example seems to show that consistent chopping and changing doesn't work well.

 

all of this

[thewookieisdown]

33 minutes ago, parkerowl said:

Is everyone of the opinion then that if it takes 4 or 5 years to get up with carlos that's fine ? just keep doing as we are and eveyones happy ? 

 

genuine question. 

Genuine answer.  If I was offered the choice: definite promotion in five years time; or take your chances.  I'd possibly go for the definite promotion.  (I can't imagine that would be under CC).  I wouldn't underestimate just how incredibly difficult it is to get out of this league; and the margins.  My worry is not so much sustained campaigns, as things falling apart.

[Shezza]

1 hour ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

So is the Telegraph article, as is every opinion on here.

My opinion is no wilder than anyone else's.

 

And my opinion is that Chansiri will not sack Carlos regardless of the next 2/4/5 games.

 

Sorry, looking back at your post I quoted the wrong guy. Completely agree with you!

[Inspector Lestrade]

1 hour ago, parkerowl said:

I think it would be another unknown Foreigner to be honest, Can't see an English head coach here under DC.

 

Nice plan 

[Athelwulf]

3 hours ago, daveyboy66 said:

only the stupid ones who don't realise that to build the club from scratch we have to progress every year which we are doing under CC

I meant that the chairman will review the season as a whole, rather than the last few games (as some fans are doing) should we fail to go up. But you make a good point. Have we built on last season?

[Beauchief Owl]

Pure speculation to sell papers. DC does not strike me as the type of person who would be sharing this kind of information with reporters. He has much more integrity than that IMO.

[daveyboy66]

7 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

I meant that the chairman will review the season as a whole, rather than the last few games (as some fans are doing) should we fail to go up. But you make a good point. Have we built on last season?

Yes...more points, better results against top teams and found a way to win when we are not at it...progress all round

 

[Athelwulf]

2 hours ago, thewookieisdown said:

Genuine answer.  If I was offered the choice: definite promotion in five years time; or take your chances.  I'd possibly go for the definite promotion.  (I can't imagine that would be under CC).  I wouldn't underestimate just how incredibly difficult it is to get out of this league; and the margins.  My worry is not so much sustained campaigns, as things falling apart.

 

Lets not for get that Carlos was brought in for entertainment value, as an antidote to the type of football played under Gray.

 

It isn't about good managers and bad managers, it's about right ones and wrong ones. A simple example, Benitez. Would Benitez have got Brighton up? Probably not. He got Newcastle over the line, but that's because they've got the best players in the league. Carlos would get the Magpies up too, but how would Benitez (or Carlos) do with Brighton?

 

The irony is that Chansiri sacked a man who was probably better equipped to gain success with a club like ourselves or Brighton, who lacks parachute funds.

[markowl]

6 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

Lets not for get that Carlos was brought in for entertainment value, as an antidote to the type of football played under Gray.

 

It isn't about good managers and bad managers, it's about right ones and wrong ones. A simple example, Benitez. Would Benitez have got Brighton up? Probably not. He got Newcastle over the line, but that's because they've got the best players in the league. Carlos would get the Magpies up too, but how would Benitez (or Carlos) do with Brighton?

 

The irony is that Chansiri sacked a man who was probably better equipped to gain success with a club like ourselves or Brighton, who lacks parachute funds.

What has Stuart Gray done in his career that gives your last sentence any foundation?

[SiJ]

Did I just make up last years play off final? 

 

 

[thewookieisdown]

7 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

Lets not for get that Carlos was brought in for entertainment value, as an antidote to the type of football played under Gray.

 

It isn't about good managers and bad managers, it's about right ones and wrong ones. A simple example, Benitez. Would Benitez have got Brighton up? Probably not. He got Newcastle over the line, but that's because they've got the best players in the league. Carlos would get the Magpies up too, but how would Benitez (or Carlos) do with Brighton?

 

The irony is that Chansiri sacked a man who was probably better equipped to gain success with a club like ourselves or Brighton, who lacks parachute funds.

Agree about right/wrong rather than simply good/bad.  Don't agree the examples at all.  On what we've seen so far Carlos is very well equipped - or more pertinently, so far he's done very well for us.  So far.

[Dan™]

3 hours ago, parkerowl said:

why is it negative ? saying if we don't go up id swap manager. some techy souls on here.

 

I wouldn't call it negative, I'd call it incredibly risky.

 

How's about looking at it like this:

 

Assuming that we're still in the Championship next season, if we stick with Carlos we're all but guaranteed to be challenging the top-six again all season long, with a decent chance of progressing further towards the top-two.

 

Sure, we might strike it lucky with a new man in charge who gets us challenging the top-two all season, but we're equally likely (if not much more so) to go backwards for a season or two while they change things around and remould the team. Perhaps not even giving the playoffs a proper challenge, ala Derby this year.