Team v Birmingham

[IstillhateSteveBould]

20 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

Interesting.

 

Villa - nil nil when he went left for 23 mins. Win one-nil.

Burton - 12 mins on left

Leeds - half a game. Lost 2-0 both goals that half*

Bristol C - 17 mins on left. We scored, they didn't.

Brum - 25 mins on left. We scored but then two late goals

Forest - full match left. Won 2-1

Brighton - 32 minutes left, during which time we scored, they didn't.

Derby - 9 minutes on left

Ipswich - 24 minutes. No goals either way

 

277 minutes on the left. The equivalent of THREE games.

 

We scored six goals in that time. That's two per game, or double what we get when he plays striker.

 

Exactly like last season. One goal per game when he is striker. Two per game when he plays left.

 

The team is crying out for his goals from the left AND the goals of two front strikers.

 

So now we're talking minutes but when it's FF's goals it's just 52 appearances? 

 

You're too much. 

 

You also left 90 mins at Brentford out. Derby away was 25 minutes on the left, they scored we didn't. Not sure where you get 12 minutes on left at Burton. He came on for Abdi at ht and played there til the end. They scored as well. 

 

 

And the equivalent of 3 games (which is wrong anyway), is not the same as 3 games is it? Again, you manipulate the stats to suit your perspective. 

 

If we do it your way, while FF has been on the left, we've scored 7 conceded 8 across 10 games.

 

How many points did we get in the games Carlos has messed around switching him to the left?

 

How many points have we gained since he's kept him up top? 

 

We've been crap with Fletcher and Hooper up top, and crap with FF on the wing. This season. Last season is irrelevant.

[pazowl55]

5 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

 

 

It is absolutely totally to do with tactics but that doesn't suit the "stats" brigade as they would have to understand a bit more about what is going on. We had thread after thread on here last season about how we sat back first half, kept men behind the ball and never pushed forward to support our strikers . Home and away. But they still reckon the problem was FF playing up front . 

 

I watched us play a great 30 mins with FF up front at Bristol. We attacked , pushed Reach up on the left with Fox bombing on , gave FF some support as a striker and lo and behold he scored and we gave a great performance until the defence , as usual this season, dropped a clanger.

 

 

This is why he is reluctant to open up against opponents or play more flair player like McManaman or Abdi. because it leaves us to be picked off at the back.especially if any one of Loovens Lees or Hutchinson are out.

 

It's all about game management for me. when Carlos sees the opportunity to go with it he will.

[Holmowl]

13 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

 

 

It is absolutely totally to do with tactics but that doesn't suit the "stats" brigade as they would have to understand a bit more about what is going on. We had thread after thread on here last season about how we sat back first half, kept men behind the ball and never pushed forward to support our strikers . Home and away. But they still reckon the problem was FF playing up front . 

 

I watched us play a great 30 mins with FF up front at Bristol. We attacked , pushed Reach up on the left with Fox bombing on , gave FF some support as a striker and lo and behold he scored and we gave a great performance until the defence , as usual this season, dropped a clanger.

 

 

"Stats"?

 

They are called "goals" and "wins". But feel free to call them stats.

[jonesy87shef]

 I think the majority of Wednesday fans realise Fernando need to play on the left. We are a more attacking team when he's put there. More creative. Then the fact we have genuinle quality upfront too. We are more likely to score more goals with two from Rhodes/Hooper/Winall/Fletcher up top and Fernando on the left than 1 from the those players supported by fernando and Reach or whoever else on the left. 

 

We we have the fantastic attackers, please set up to use them Carlos

[IstillhateSteveBould]

Just now, jonesy87shef said:

 I think the majority of Wednesday fans realise Fernando need to play on the left. We are a more attacking team when he's put there. More creative. Then the fact we have genuinle quality upfront too. We are more likely to score more goals with two from Rhodes/Hooper/Winall/Fletcher up top and Fernando on the left than 1 from the those players supported by fernando and Reach or whoever else on the left. 

 

We we have the fantastic attackers, please set up to use them Carlos

 

[jonesy87shef]

1 minute ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

 

 

The he majority I read on here do. If I had to have a guess of stuff I read on here or annoying things that pop up on facebook I'd go 80/20 in favour of putting him on the left. 

 

Stats ts are all well and good and can be used to prove almost any point if you dig deep enough. As shown by yours and holmowls back and forth. Stats are very important, but so is understanding the game. imo it's just obvious watching how much of a better side we are with him on the left. He is very good at turning players and then driving us up the pitch. This allows us to play higher, the gap between midfield and the forwards is less and makes it easier to retain possession and attack in areas that actually hurt the opposites.

 

I'ts also a bit childish highlighting one small part of a post to laugh at because you disagree, whilst completing ignoring the point of the post which others have also made and you have ignored because it doesn't suit your opinion of keeping Fernando up top. 

 

I don't want to use stats but might as well break a few down. We have Jordan Rhodes who is the top scorer in England for the past 4 seasons despite missing a decent chunk with Boro (91 goals). Also averages a goal every 0.5 games. We have Winnall who is 3rd in the scoring charts in England the past 2 years behind Aguero and I think Kane (not 100% sure it was Kane). He averages a goal every 0.41 league games. Hooper who average 0.43 league goals over his career, don't need to go into how well he does real. Fletcher who is more of a link up player who still scores 0.26 goals a game with around half of the goals he scored in the top flight on english football. Then we have Fernando who has undoubted quality, he does however average a goal every 0.26 games over his career.

 

My point being. Get two goal scorers in the pitch and also play Forestieri. That's how we will score more. Not only does the way we play imorve and our intent is more focussed on attacking, our players goals to game ratio back up we should play as many as reasonably possible if they fit into our system. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

Westwood

 

Hunt     Lees     Loovens     Fox

 

McManaman     Hutchinson     Bannan     Reach

 

Rhodes     Forestieri

[pazowl55]

5 minutes ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

 

The he majority I read on here do. If I had to have a guess of stuff I read on here or annoying things that pop up on facebook I'd go 80/20 in favour of putting him on the left. 

 

Stats ts are all well and good and can be used to prove almost any point if you dig deep enough. As shown by yours and holmowls back and forth. Stats are very important, but so is understanding the game. imo it's just obvious watching how much of a better side we are with him on the left. He is very good at turning players and then driving us up the pitch. This allows us to play higher, the gap between midfield and the forwards is less and makes it easier to retain possession and attack in areas that actually hurt the opposites.

 

I'ts also a bit childish highlighting one small part of a post to laugh at because you disagree, whilst completing ignoring the point of the post which others have also made and you have ignored because it doesn't suit your opinion of keeping Fernando up top. 

 

I don't want to use stats but might as well break a few down. We have Jordan Rhodes who is the top scorer in England for the past 4 seasons despite missing a decent chunk with Boro (91 goals). Also averages a goal every 0.5 games. We have Winnall who is 3rd in the scoring charts in England the past 2 years behind Aguero and I think Kane (not 100% sure it was Kane). He averages a goal every 0.41 league games. Hooper who average 0.43 league goals over his career, don't need to go into how well he does real. Fletcher who is more of a link up player who still scores 0.26 goals a game with around half of the goals he scored in the top flight on english football. Then we have Fernando who has undoubted quality, he does however average a goal every 0.26 games over his career.

 

My point being. Get two goal scorers in the pitch and also play Forestieri. That's how we will score more. Not only does the way we play imorve and our intent is more focussed on attacking, our players goals to game ratio back up we should play as many as reasonably possible if they fit into our system. 

All about game management like I previously said.

 

Can't imagine we will go with Forestieri on the left permanently now just because we have better strikers, as some games Reach might be a better option to combat something on the left hand side.

 

However I am pretty sure that Rhodes and Forestieri out of all our strikers will start every game, where as previously it was just Forestieri as a guaranteed starter.

So like with Bannan when Lee was fit. he was accommodated as will be foresterri through being on the left hand side as you play your best players.

[jerseyowl]

           Westwood

Palmer Lees Loovens Fox

   Wallace Hutch Bannan

               Abdi

     Rhodes Forestieri

[IstillhateSteveBould]

3 hours ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

 

The he majority I read on here do. If I had to have a guess of stuff I read on here or annoying things that pop up on facebook I'd go 80/20 in favour of putting him on the left. 

 

Stats ts are all well and good and can be used to prove almost any point if you dig deep enough. As shown by yours and holmowls back and forth. Stats are very important, but so is understanding the game. imo it's just obvious watching how much of a better side we are with him on the left. He is very good at turning players and then driving us up the pitch. This allows us to play higher, the gap between midfield and the forwards is less and makes it easier to retain possession and attack in areas that actually hurt the opposites.

 

I'ts also a bit childish highlighting one small part of a post to laugh at because you disagree, whilst completing ignoring the point of the post which others have also made and you have ignored because it doesn't suit your opinion of keeping Fernando up top. 

 

I don't want to use stats but might as well break a few down. We have Jordan Rhodes who is the top scorer in England for the past 4 seasons despite missing a decent chunk with Boro (91 goals). Also averages a goal every 0.5 games. We have Winnall who is 3rd in the scoring charts in England the past 2 years behind Aguero and I think Kane (not 100% sure it was Kane). He averages a goal every 0.41 league games. Hooper who average 0.43 league goals over his career, don't need to go into how well he does real. Fletcher who is more of a link up player who still scores 0.26 goals a game with around half of the goals he scored in the top flight on english football. Then we have Fernando who has undoubted quality, he does however average a goal every 0.26 games over his career.

 

My point being. Get two goal scorers in the pitch and also play Forestieri. That's how we will score more. Not only does the way we play imorve and our intent is more focussed on attacking, our players goals to game ratio back up we should play as many as reasonably possible if they fit into our system. 

 

 "I think the majority of Wednesday fans realise Fernando need to play on the left."

 

"Stats are very important, but so is understanding the game. imo it's just obvious watching how much of a better side we are with him on the left."

 

So you post silly things like this, then complain about me laughing about it?

 

 

Look, this has been going on for a long time between myself and holmowl. He's a narrow minded poster with 1 single agenda. He never posts about anything else. He completely ignores anything that doesn't suit (and in some cases completely disproves...) his argument and manipulates stats to back up his case. 

 

This has never been about me being completely against FF ever playing on the left wing. As someone who "understands the game", I believe different games require different tactics/formations/players etc.

 

This is about holmowl's unwillingness to accept that something other than his one single idea of how we should set up, (which is, ridiculously, due to just a handful of games from last season!) can be successful.

 

If you or anyone else is of the opinion that FF is better as a left winger, that's fine. But to actively seek to discredit FF's ability as a forward and our ability to win/play well/succeed with him playing there, on a DAILY basis, is quite frankly pathetic.

 

There are pros and cons to playing FF in both positions. For me, the pros when playing him up top, far outweigh anything else, so that's where he should start. Thankfully Carlos agrees. We're in a playoff position, with more points than this time last year and FF is clearly our most productive forward in every aspect. Happy days.

[The Night-Owl]

Westwood;

Hunt,

Fox or Reach,

Lees,

Loovens;

Hutchinson,

Bannan,

Wallace,

Forestieri;

Winnall or Hooper,

Rhodes.

 

We won't see a formation change to 4-3-3 so the next best thing is to go with Winnall or Hooper alongside Rhodes, with Forestieri and Wallace out wide. Which would give us 3 strikers on the pitch and more emphasis on attack to take the game to the opposites.

 

"Attack, attack, attack..."

Edited February 8, 2017 by Milan Missing Marble

[Road Runner]

                   Westwood

 

Hunt.      Loovens.    Lees.    Fox

 

Mcmanaman. *Hutchinson. Abdi.  Fessi

 

                Hooper.  Rhodes

 

 

 

Equivalent of 5 defenders, 3 creative midfielders and two goal scorers.

 

 

Use the wings and let Abdi roam with Hutchinson keeping it tight.

 

 

*Not sure if Hutchinson still suspended and couldn't be bothered to look. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by tuttuttut

[Ali G]

On 04/02/2017 at 09:19, roundhayowl said:

Westwood

 

Palmer

Lees

Hutch

Fox

 

McManaman

Abdi

Bannan

FF

 

Rhodes

Hooper

 

Let's have the opposition worry about us for a change.

This line up would terrify me if I was the opposition! Why wouldn't you choose this line up?

[Holmowl]

7 hours ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

 "I think the majority of Wednesday fans realise Fernando need to play on the left."

 

"Stats are very important, but so is understanding the game. imo it's just obvious watching how much of a better side we are with him on the left."

 

So you post silly things like this, then complain about me laughing about it?

 

 

Look, this has been going on for a long time between myself and holmowl. He's a narrow minded poster with 1 single agenda. He never posts about anything else. He completely ignores anything that doesn't suit (and in some cases completely disproves...) his argument and manipulates stats to back up his case. 

 

This has never been about me being completely against FF ever playing on the left wing. As someone who "understands the game", I believe different games require different tactics/formations/players etc.

 

This is about holmowl's unwillingness to accept that something other than his one single idea of how we should set up, (which is, ridiculously, due to just a handful of games from last season!) can be successful.

 

If you or anyone else is of the opinion that FF is better as a left winger, that's fine. But to actively seek to discredit FF's ability as a forward and our ability to win/play well/succeed with him playing there, on a DAILY basis, is quite frankly pathetic.

 

There are pros and cons to playing FF in both positions. For me, the pros when playing him up top, far outweigh anything else, so that's where he should start. Thankfully Carlos agrees. We're in a playoff position, with more points than this time last year and FF is clearly our most productive forward in every aspect. Happy days.

 

In a thread about best current XI last week, of the first 25 posters, three chose FF up front, two had him sub, and 20 had him wide left.

 

There's nothing wrong with having a minority opinion and sticking to it because you are convinced, as you clearly are, but it is silly to mock people who hold the overwhelming majority opinion, accusing them of knowing nothing about football.

 

Back to the thread...

 

As Fletch and Hooper won't start, we have Winnall, Rhodes and FF to pick from Friday. Can't see Carlos picking Winnall-Rhodes with FF left, as it leaves him with only Nuhiu as a striking substitution. So FF-Rhodes is likely to get a second run-out. Let's hope it works well. If it doesn't, we now have three other players who can play with Rhodes, as he us indisputably (even between you and I?) the one sure-starting striker for the next 17 matches.

 

 

[wattowl]

 at home we need a more attacking threat.  Teams are playing a pressing game with a 451 picking the midfield and playing higher up the pitch as we have no pace over the top.  we need to go three at theback at home   whilst im not doubting hutch is player of the year  our best results at hillsborough last year  were with lee and bannan central. hence id playhutch in a back three with mcmanaman and reach pushing right on  . we can then play fessi in a free role behind a front two of rhodes and one of fletch winnal or hooper.. This system gets us higher up the pitch. And less need to be passing backwards. It would be paramount that mcmanaman or wallace  and reach push up and dont sit to deep. It works for chelsea. Moses its hardly a full back and pushed right up.  we need to let teams worry about us  . Abdi would also be in correct position..    the system is thereore a 3 4 1 2. Pudil palmer and hunt have not helped  our system this year.   Thoughts  

[IstillhateSteveBould]

20 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

In a thread about best current XI last week, of the first 25 posters, three chose FF up front, two had him sub, and 20 had him wide left.

 

There's nothing wrong with having a minority opinion and sticking to it because you are convinced, as you clearly are, but it is silly to mock people who hold the overwhelming majority opinion, accusing them of knowing nothing about football.

 

Back to the thread...

 

As Fletch and Hooper won't start, we have Winnall, Rhodes and FF to pick from Friday. Can't see Carlos picking Winnall-Rhodes with FF left, as it leaves him with only Nuhiu as a striking substitution. So FF-Rhodes is likely to get a second run-out. Let's hope it works well. If it doesn't, we now have three other players who can play with Rhodes, as he us indisputably (even between you and I?) the one sure-starting striker for the next 17 matches.

 

 

 

A thread on owlstalk doesn't represent the views of an entire fan base mate. You have no idea what the majority opinion is. You're so engrossed in your agenda, I doubt you absorb anything other than posts that back up your opinion. 

 

And I don't accuse anyone of knowing nothing about football if they simply prefer to see FF on the left wing. The ones who know nothing are the ones who say he's absolutely not a forward, or he's wasted up there, or they think they've spotted some sort of magic formula due to a handful of games last season. 

 

FF can be a very productive player wherever he plays. This season, he's been far more productive as a forward than he has as a winger. It'll be hilarious if we get promoted and he finishes as top scorer. You'll still no doubt be telling everyone how wrong Carlos is.

 

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, wattowl said:

 at home we need a more attacking threat.  Teams are playing a pressing game with a 451 picking the midfield and playing higher up the pitch as we have no pace over the top.  we need to go three at theback at home   whilst im not doubting hutch is player of the year  our best results at hillsborough last year  were with lee and bannan central. hence id playhutch in a back three with mcmanaman and reach pushing right on  . we can then play fessi in a free role behind a front two of rhodes and one of fletch winnal or hooper.. This system gets us higher up the pitch. And less need to be passing backwards. It would be paramount that mcmanaman or wallace  and reach push up and dont sit to deep. It works for chelsea. Moses its hardly a full back and pushed right up.  we need to let teams worry about us  . Abdi would also be in correct position..    the system is thereore a 3 4 1 2. Pudil palmer and hunt have not helped  our system this year.   Thoughts  

 

So...

 

Westy

 

Hutch

Lees

Loovens

 

Macca

Abdi

Bannan

Reach

 

FF

 

Fletch/Hooper/Winnall

Rhodes

 

Is that it?

 

I can see why you think that at home, but let's face it there isn't a cats chance in hell Carlos will be so radical. We are nearly there with our 442, so he is not going to rip it up and start again, as the song says.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Holmowl

[debram]

4 minutes ago, yunga_swfc said:

carlos is not gonna drop wallace, bannan & reach

 

nice team on paper like but never gonna happen, the 3 above will always start for us, carlos trusts them 

 

it'll be:

 

westwood

 

palmer

loovens

lees

fox

 

wallace

hutch

bannan

reach

 

ff

rhodes

Think you may be right but apart from Fox whats different attacking/creativity wise, should put Macca in for Reach at least at home.

[debram]

2 minutes ago, yunga_swfc said:

 

not sure about fox, he did well at bristol city then sounded like he was ill or injured for the wigan game, I wouldn't be surprised to see him start

 

agree about macca for reach but I can't see carlos dropping him 

Same here but surely CC has to make changes somehow to supply Rhodes otherwise why did he bring in macca, just want more positivity at home for a change

[Guest domSWFC]

30 minutes ago, yunga_swfc said:

carlos is not gonna drop wallace, bannan & reach

 

nice team on paper like but never gonna happen, the 3 above will always start for us, carlos trusts them 

 

it'll be:

 

westwood

 

palmer

loovens

lees

fox

 

wallace

hutch

bannan

reach

 

ff

rhodes

 

I think that will be the line up. But would like to see McMannaman start ahead of Reach on the left.