FFP (again, apologies)

[bigrbuk]

4 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

UEFA, Prem and Football League all have their own FFP rules. 

 

True, but assumed this was the "model" on which they were based? So the 3 year back rolling aspect?

 

In truth, nobody appears to know

[bigrbuk]

The EFL version....

 

http://www.efl.com/global/appendix5.aspx

[pickledegghiderman]

After reading the football league website its quite obvious that as from this season clubs are allowed to make a loss of 39m after 3 seasons provided that club stays in the championship. It says that the old system of reviewing the accounts after each season no longer applies. After reading this im pretty sure no club will get a transfer embargo over the next 3 years unless it relates to the 2015/16 season. In my opinion we should try to sign the best players we can realistically afford and not worry about ffp. The only time we should worry about ffp is after 3 years from now we havent gained promotion to the premier league and as long as we do shrewd business ( which we seem to ) then we might have to sell a few players to bring losses down to the acceptable levels. Nixon might have said were keeping an eye on ffp as signing players like mccormack for 13mil plus wages would almost certainly put you in a far worse position regarding ffp as he would probably have very little resale value and probably cost you around 20million over a 3 year period. Making smart shrewd signings is the way to go as most players in our starting 11 are probably worth more now than when we signed them. Im pretty certain we will make the required signings. Im even more certain that we'll get them at the rght price too 

[Triple O]

Think people are struggling with the 3yr rolling system.

 

The scheme starts this coming season so (at the end of next season) the max deficit for 14/15, 15/16 & 16/17 is £39M * but see note below. At the end of the season after next the accounting simply adds that new season ( 17/18) and drops the oldest one (14/15). So accounts for 15/16, 16/17 & 17/18. This carries on until they change it or the amount allowed.

 

* I am not sure what deficit was allowable in 14/15 but think it may have been £8M. So the amount shown above would not be £39M but £34M. Wonder if this had been overlooked and is what is causing the worry?

[WC1Owl]

52 minutes ago, bigrbuk said:

If anyone can really be arsed, this is the 2015 version...

 

http://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/02/26/77/91/2267791_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

From the tiny bit I read, it appears the 3 years covers the current year and previous 2, so the £39m is a bit of a red herring, cos that won't be effective until next year (when we've had 3 seasons at £13m). As I understand it, we are allowed a loss of £13m this season, £13m last season and £6 from season before (total £32m), of which DC/MM could only cover £3m, £8m and £8m (£19m).

 

It's quite possible I'm understanding this all wrong!

 

These are the UEFA rules, though - applicable to the Champions League and Europa Cup.

[WC1Owl]

Sorry, I see everyone has already covered that. 

[Philb125]

Now John West tuna has been banned from tesco stores, can forget about the big signings! That must be costing TUF millions 

[Owls2k]

On 7/24/2016 at 08:56, spike1867 said:

Whilst I don't agree with the statement he could buy out Abramovich.......I agree with the rest.  The more learned among us will be able to give us figures, but given our undeniable increase in revenue, and the fact that we haven't paid huge transfer fees, how could we be so close to FFP limits? Have we been offering exorbitant wages? Must say slightly worried......unless of course it's all subterfuge to stop clubs and agents driving up prices.......but would be a little extreme......

Hooper is on absolutely huge wages and I'm guessing Fletcher is the same. 

 

Why do you think Chansiri brought out a 3 year season ticket? He clearly wanted a huge cash injection into the club to aid FFP

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

On 7/24/2016 at 12:30, bigash_swfc said:

This isn't good.

 

"Chairman worried about FFP" goes public

FFP look closer at Sheffield Wednesday.

Realise we have no variety of anything worth buying in club shop

Doomed.

There's some pretty nice Ipswich shirts in there.

[mogbad]

16 minutes ago, Owls2k said:

Hooper is on absolutely huge wages and I'm guessing Fletcher is the same. 

 

Why do you think Chansiri brought out a 3 year season ticket? He clearly wanted a huge cash injection into the club to aid FFP

 

I might be wrong but I'm sure I read where the income from the 3 year season ticket deal had to be spread over the 3 years for FFP purposes.

[joelswfc]

1 hour ago, pickledegghiderman said:

After reading the football league website its quite obvious that as from this season clubs are allowed to make a loss of 39m after 3 seasons provided that club stays in the championship. It says that the old system of reviewing the accounts after each season no longer applies. After reading this im pretty sure no club will get a transfer embargo over the next 3 years unless it relates to the 2015/16 season. In my opinion we should try to sign the best players we can realistically afford and not worry about ffp. The only time we should worry about ffp is after 3 years from now we havent gained promotion to the premier league and as long as we do shrewd business ( which we seem to ) then we might have to sell a few players to bring losses down to the acceptable levels. Nixon might have said were keeping an eye on ffp as signing players like mccormack for 13mil plus wages would almost certainly put you in a far worse position regarding ffp as he would probably have very little resale value and probably cost you around 20million over a 3 year period. Making smart shrewd signings is the way to go as most players in our starting 11 are probably worth more now than when we signed them. Im pretty certain we will make the required signings. Im even more certain that we'll get them at the rght price too 

Superb post. Well worth reading.

Edited July 25, 2016 by joelswfc

[mogbad]

1 hour ago, pickledegghiderman said:

After reading the football league website its quite obvious that as from this season clubs are allowed to make a loss of 39m after 3 seasons provided that club stays in the championship. It says that the old system of reviewing the accounts after each season no longer applies. After reading this im pretty sure no club will get a transfer embargo over the next 3 years unless it relates to the 2015/16 season. In my opinion we should try to sign the best players we can realistically afford and not worry about ffp. The only time we should worry about ffp is after 3 years from now we havent gained promotion to the premier league and as long as we do shrewd business ( which we seem to ) then we might have to sell a few players to bring losses down to the acceptable levels. Nixon might have said were keeping an eye on ffp as signing players like mccormack for 13mil plus wages would almost certainly put you in a far worse position regarding ffp as he would probably have very little resale value and probably cost you around 20million over a 3 year period. Making smart shrewd signings is the way to go as most players in our starting 11 are probably worth more now than when we signed them. Im pretty certain we will make the required signings. Im even more certain that we'll get them at the rght price too 

 

Sounds about right to me. However I'm not sure when the actual cut off is for 2015/16 in FFP terms. Somebody on here said it was December. If that's the case maybe DC is worried that if he pays out big transfer fees now then we could receive an embargo  for the 2015/16 losses.

[theowlsman]

Gone: Pudil, Lopez, Sasso, Turner, Bennett, Price

 

Going: McGugan

 

Periphery players: Nuhiu and Sougou

 

Uncertain future: Lachman

 

Injured: Loovens

 

Just for the record, who thinks our owner won't do much to improve the situation?

 

Remember that 

 

a) Our recruitment was impressive last season

 

b)We've already made a statement saying we're waiting on answers and are confident of getting one or two over the line imminently.

 

If you acknowedge (a) and (b) above, WTF are you panicking about?

Edited 4 minutes ago by theowlsman

 

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

13 minutes ago, theowlsman said:

Gone: Pudil, Lopez, Sasso, Turner, Bennett, Price

 

Going: McGugan

 

Periphery players: Nuhiu and Sougou

 

Uncertain future: Lachman

 

Injured: Loovens

 

Just for the record, who thinks our owner won't do much to improve the situation?

 

Remember that 

 

a) Our recruitment was impressive last season

 

b)We've already made a statement saying we're waiting on answers and are confident of getting one or two over the line imminently.

 

If you acknowedge (a) and (b) above, WTF are you panicking about?

Edited 4 minutes ago by theowlsman

 

 

 

As always, the voice of reason. Well said sir !!

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

Kendoddsdadsdogsdead has got to be the best username ever

[mike84]

1 hour ago, Owls2k said:

Hooper is on absolutely huge wages and I'm guessing Fletcher is the same. 

 

Why do you think Chansiri brought out a 3 year season ticket? He clearly wanted a huge cash injection into the club to aid FFP

 

Mthe 3 year season tickets are just that.  The income for accounting purposes also has to be split over 3 seasons.

 

what the tickets do though is give the club a good starting point on how much money needs to come in and what can go out.

[***HIRSTY***]

I don't believe anyone is panicking. The best players cost either a high transfer fee, wages or both. If the FFP problem rumour is true, we can't really afford it without significant risk.

I've no doubt that we will have a full squad for the season ahead but for a promotion push I'd rather it not be filled with gash the likes of which we've had and still got.

Edited July 25, 2016 by ***HIRSTY***

[theowlsman]

21 minutes ago, kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:

 

As always, the voice of reason. Well said sir !!

 

I just try to think about things a bit rather than accept that a very shrewd businessman has suddenly become potless, or wants out, or hasn't up until this moment, given thought to FFP before announcing promotion in two years.

 

Also think about a man who seems to have bought into the club, and what it's all about, who promised getting us to the Prem whatever it takes, then letting people down because despite having a few quid, is now worried about a fine.

 

Some right thick twonks on here.

[theowlsman]

46 minutes ago, theowlsman said:

Gone: Pudil, Lopez, Sasso, Turner, Bennett, Price

 

Going: McGugan

 

Periphery players: Nuhiu and Sougou

 

Uncertain future: Lachman

 

Injured: Loovens

 

Just for the record, who thinks our owner won't do much to improve the situation?

 

Remember that 

 

a) Our recruitment was impressive last season

 

b)We've already made a statement saying we're waiting on answers and are confident of getting one or two over the line imminently.

 

If you acknowedge (a) and (b) above, WTF are you panicking about?

Edited 4 minutes ago by theowlsman

 

 

 

Forgot Bus and Dielna. They can't have much of a future here either. Or has Dielna already gone?

 

Anyhow, that's a lot of wages freed up if nowt else.

[Crewton Ram]

Bloody confusing isn't it?

 

The way I've read them, they do intend to measure the allowable losses (i.e football related items only) over every three year period running July 1st to June 30th starting this season. But because 2014/15 was the last under the old rules where £6M (£3M + £3M owners equity) was the maximum permitted loss, and 2015/16 is a transition season where £13M (£5M + £8M owners equity) was the maximum permitted loss, the £39M total losses allowed is reduced to £32M (£6M + (2 x £13M)) for this measurement period only.

The new regulations kick in fully this season, and that means a £15m maximum permitted loss per season with a maximum of £39m measured over three seasons henceforth, so clubs can't blow their £39M permitted 3-season loss in one season. Owners will not now have to inject matching equity, but will be expected to submit detailed plans showing how the club will be funded in the future to ensure that debts do not build up to unsustainable levels.

 

Re : Derby, I'm guessing we might be 'tight' for FFP for last season, though most players were signed on 4 year contracts, over which period their transfer fees can be spread for accounting purposes - something like £6.5M per season at a guess. That said, we've no doubt got a few players in the £20-40k/wk salary bracket, so I imagine the £13M limit might be tested. So far this season, we've raised about £2M from sales and removed about 6 players in total from the books with a couple more to go. I'd expect money in to be similar to money out this season, but I could be wrong.

 

I'm a bit surprised that Wednesday are rumoured to be that close on FFP - could it be something to do with wages and fees for the number of new players and loan-ins you signed last season? Even then, if our management are confident we'll be OK (which they seem to be) it would be strange if you weren't.