peggyowl Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 This is not a go at DJ or any of the players more an obvseration on style and tactics. Having now seen two of the better teams in this division one of the big things that strikes me is about style, tactics belief and trust. Both Blackpool and Middlesborough appear confident on the ball, Their movement both with the ball and without the ball were impressive. They had a trust within the team that the ball would be retained moved on and players would make themselves avaiable in space and would look to move foward. If you look at how we play the one big thing that strikes me is lack of movement and the ability to play quickly and effectively. With 5 in midfield this should be easier to do but appears to be harder for some reason. This really does come down to been too static on the back foot and not trying to continually pulled the opposition about. I still think the team is not trusted to play 4-4-2 and until we are we will continue to put ourselves under pressure and amke mistakes and that is half the problem the ball come sback so quickly from opposition defence that midfield never gets to settle and set a style of play. 2 up front means you can hunt down defenders in packs and make them rush clearances instead of good passes into midfield and then the the ability to pass around midfield pick passes and penetrate. I also feel we have lost the ability to bully teams we seem to have lost some of our wallop. if we are going to get bookings for tippy tappy then we may as well try to impose a bit more. Show some fight In some ways with the players and the skills levels we currently have I do get the feeling that we should be a little more direct with 2 upfront. We cant play pretty football we are not good enough yet so we should develop a style that causes the opposition problems. get the ball foward quickly and get there fast to support. What I would say is I dont think we are far short of a good mid table side. We have as many or even more chances than many wednesday teams I have seen in the past. We have not been able to convert them. We are haveing to have 10 chances to get one were we should be converting 1 in 3. It will be interesting to see on the back of DJ statement on some players not been good enough what happens next and how big a breathe MM can continue to take. UTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zico sterland Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 No pace up front is the major problem,Antonio and jj are flying machines but not out and out strikers,we need a forward with pace and I agree play 442 at home at the very least,teams can see we have no outlet up front so bomb forward without having to worry.Sadly the two forwards we have brought in Rodri and Bothroyd have little or no pace and have both been a waste of loan options.Bothroyd in particular has been very dissapointing and for some unknown reason is playing right wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 In terms of Boro & Blackpool. I think their confidence on the ball is largely due to the fact they're respective teams are well established over a number of seasons. They probably have some better players too, due the differences in finances / parachute payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 He is played there because his delivery is better than any of our wingers. Interesting post though, our lack of movement is a major factor in us not making the most of passers like Bothroyd and Barkley. There is little or no movement from whoever plays up front and our full backs rarely push forward. In both the Blackpool and Middlesborough games, their full backs were constantly providing width. Recently there's been a tendency to get the ball forward quicker with both Bothroyd and Barkley aiming long diagonal balls into the box looking for Antonio running beyond the striker. Both have the quality to make that type of pass but it's getting a bit predictable with seemingly no other avenues of attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorturner Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 This is not a go at DJ or any of the players more an obvseration on style and tactics. Having now seen two of the better teams in this division one of the big things that strikes me is about style, tactics belief and trust. Both Blackpool and Middlesborough appear confident on the ball, Their movement both with the ball and without the ball were impressive. They had a trust within the team that the ball would be retained moved on and players would make themselves avaiable in space and would look to move foward. If you look at how we play the one big thing that strikes me is lack of movement and the ability to play quickly and effectively. With 5 in midfield this should be easier to do but appears to be harder for some reason. This really does come down to been too static on the back foot and not trying to continually pulled the opposition about. I still think the team is not trusted to play 4-4-2 and until we are we will continue to put ourselves under pressure and amke mistakes and that is half the problem the ball come sback so quickly from opposition defence that midfield never gets to settle and set a style of play. 2 up front means you can hunt down defenders in packs and make them rush clearances instead of good passes into midfield and then the the ability to pass around midfield pick passes and penetrate. I also feel we have lost the ability to bully teams we seem to have lost some of our wallop. if we are going to get bookings for tippy tappy then we may as well try to impose a bit more. Show some fight In some ways with the players and the skills levels we currently have I do get the feeling that we should be a little more direct with 2 upfront. We cant play pretty football we are not good enough yet so we should develop a style that causes the opposition problems. get the ball foward quickly and get there fast to support. What I would say is I dont think we are far short of a good mid table side. We have as many or even more chances than many wednesday teams I have seen in the past. We have not been able to convert them. We are haveing to have 10 chances to get one were we should be converting 1 in 3. It will be interesting to see on the back of DJ statement on some players not been good enough what happens next and how big a breathe MM can continue to take. UTO This is not a go at DJ or any of the players more an obvseration on style and tactics. Having now seen two of the better teams in this division one of the big things that strikes me is about style, tactics belief and trust. Both Blackpool and Middlesborough appear confident on the ball, Their movement both with the ball and without the ball were impressive. They had a trust within the team that the ball would be retained moved on and players would make themselves avaiable in space and would look to move foward. If you look at how we play the one big thing that strikes me is lack of movement and the ability to play quickly and effectively. With 5 in midfield this should be easier to do but appears to be harder for some reason. This really does come down to been too static on the back foot and not trying to continually pulled the opposition about. I still think the team is not trusted to play 4-4-2 and until we are we will continue to put ourselves under pressure and amke mistakes and that is half the problem the ball come sback so quickly from opposition defence that midfield never gets to settle and set a style of play. 2 up front means you can hunt down defenders in packs and make them rush clearances instead of good passes into midfield and then the the ability to pass around midfield pick passes and penetrate. I also feel we have lost the ability to bully teams we seem to have lost some of our wallop. if we are going to get bookings for tippy tappy then we may as well try to impose a bit more. Show some fight In some ways with the players and the skills levels we currently have I do get the feeling that we should be a little more direct with 2 upfront. We cant play pretty football we are not good enough yet so we should develop a style that causes the opposition problems. get the ball foward quickly and get there fast to support. What I would say is I dont think we are far short of a good mid table side. We have as many or even more chances than many wednesday teams I have seen in the past. We have not been able to convert them. We are haveing to have 10 chances to get one were we should be converting 1 in 3. It will be interesting to see on the back of DJ statement on some players not been good enough what happens next and how big a breathe MM can continue to take. UTO i agree with that. Confidence on the ball is missing and so is pass and move. Players seem static. You cannot find a way through with this approach.Of course as well the strikers are powder puff . When the team was brimming with confidence, that and the spirit was getting the goals. It does not seem true to me that this team will suddenly click and take off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Pass and move, without the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubled123456 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 This is not a go at DJ or any of the players more an obvseration on style and tactics. Having now seen two of the better teams in this division one of the big things that strikes me is about style, tactics belief and trust. Both Blackpool and Middlesborough appear confident on the ball, Their movement both with the ball and without the ball were impressive. They had a trust within the team that the ball would be retained moved on and players would make themselves avaiable in space and would look to move foward. If you look at how we play the one big thing that strikes me is lack of movement and the ability to play quickly and effectively. With 5 in midfield this should be easier to do but appears to be harder for some reason. This really does come down to been too static on the back foot and not trying to continually pulled the opposition about. I still think the team is not trusted to play 4-4-2 and until we are we will continue to put ourselves under pressure and amke mistakes and that is half the problem the ball come sback so quickly from opposition defence that midfield never gets to settle and set a style of play. 2 up front means you can hunt down defenders in packs and make them rush clearances instead of good passes into midfield and then the the ability to pass around midfield pick passes and penetrate. I also feel we have lost the ability to bully teams we seem to have lost some of our wallop. if we are going to get bookings for tippy tappy then we may as well try to impose a bit more. Show some fight In some ways with the players and the skills levels we currently have I do get the feeling that we should be a little more direct with 2 upfront. We cant play pretty football we are not good enough yet so we should develop a style that causes the opposition problems. get the ball foward quickly and get there fast to support. What I would say is I dont think we are far short of a good mid table side. We have as many or even more chances than many wednesday teams I have seen in the past. We have not been able to convert them. We are haveing to have 10 chances to get one were we should be converting 1 in 3. It will be interesting to see on the back of DJ statement on some players not been good enough what happens next and how big a breathe MM can continue to take. UTO Finally, a decent commenton this site.Whoo Hoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I agree. Good post. We looked scared on Friday. We weren't against Leeds. The truth is generally in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Had a few decent games at the start of the season, near the end of that unbeaten run we were pretty confident, and for once as a fan I was too! We can play pretty football, but as stated a few times, finishing is just not possible for whatever reason. Not enough pushing forwards seems to be the main factor to me, but Im no manager so I cant justify this as being the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dukeries Owl Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Perhaps the reason why we are not coming out to pressure teams stems from incidents like the first goal at Middlesborough. We were looking fairly comfortable and Corry made a dash at one of their defenders in possession. He moved it sideways to a midfielder who then played a pass through the space that Corry had just vacated, inside Daniel Jones and the full back Justin Hoyte ran onto it and scored. I'm not attaching any blame to Paul Corry, but maybe the reason our midfield is so static is that our defence is that poor that they have to be covered at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 A beautifully executed move though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dukeries Owl Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 A beautifully executed move though Typical of our luck at the moment as well. Hoyte's 2nd goal in god knows how many games. 9 inches lower Kirkland saves it, an inch higher and it comes back off the bar instead of bouncing in off the underside of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peggyowl Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Typical of our luck at the moment as well. Hoyte's 2nd goal in god knows how many games. 9 inches lower Kirkland saves it, an inch higher and it comes back off the bar instead of bouncing in off the underside of it. You make your own luck. Could, would, should doesn't win games. The harder the team works the more luck they will get. Ultimately it's a very simple game. Good fast paced passing and movement all the way round the pitch and put ball between posts. Movement and pace kills teams and we have very little if either. The only pace is Antonio and JJ. Movement well we seem to be always half a step slow at getting into space or closing space down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronio Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Nice post. Agree with everything said. We have to play 2 up front, leaving only 1 up is not going to work for us. Maybe if we had Suarez playing then it would work, but we don't. Leaving 1 up there is just making it easy for their back four, and allowing their full backs to push up the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northeastowl Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 541 doesn't work unless you get the midfielders fully supporting when attacking. You rarely see 3 of our midfielders around the box at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash60s Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Where are:- C Palmer/G Shelton/G Megson/J Harkes/D Wilson/G Hyde/J King etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wilf Marshall Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Good post. 442 would be good but we need a real quick striker for that. We could do with Beckford or Frazier Campbell. At the moment we are in no mans land with the 451. We aren't keeping it solid and we aren't pushing men from midfield forward quick enough. It can work well away from home but at home I would like to see 2 strikers. Maybe when Maguire gets back or try with Rodri and Botheredroyd together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppers Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 As per the Boro game with only 1 striker to mark tne opposition push a defender forward and the midfield s simply too congested. Lack of true wingers and good delivery is a real problem and is why Madine is not scoring. If we had a Marshall type winger Madine would score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I agree with the op in an ideal world we should be doing all of those things and we were trying to do so at the start of the season. However it has been our misplaced passing combined with a loose formation early in the season which has created problems. I think we have set up now to try and stop these scything passes that open us up, with mixed results. What's also worrying is that when we do break ranks in midfield, one at a time, and press they are chasing shadows at times. But everything is coming unstuck by really stupid mistakes, whatever formation we play we are our own worst enemy. Not many teams have gone to town on us but we usually give ourselves a mountain to climb and its looking like it is taking its toll on the confidence of a young team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumboldowl Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) 541 doesn't work unless you get the midfielders fully supporting when attacking. You rarely see 3 of our midfielders around the box at the same time. You rarely see three of our players in the box at the same time. Thats the trouble with playing 4-5-1. Edited November 13, 2012 by dumboldowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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