gurujuan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Even when we played 442 last season we rarely saw more than 3 players in the box. How often did Semedo and Lines get in there? It's only from set plays or when we push defenders up in the final few minutes. The new system can work but its dependent on your full backs getting forward to provide the width. Every week, you see teams using this system and creating chances galore. The biggest problem for us in trying to make it work is we don't have a striker with any decent movement They don't even have to have pace, look at Berbatov, it's just knowing when and where to make the runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last_Great_Hope Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 In terms of Boro & Blackpool. I think their confidence on the ball is largely due to the fact they're respective teams are well established over a number of seasons. They probably have some better players too, due the differences in finances / parachute payments. Funnily enough, this is EXACTLY what I was going to post after I had read the OP (which incidently makes some good points). One of the issues we have is that Barkley is by far our best player, but he can't play as 1 of a midfield two - he just doesnt have the defensive nouce to do it. I think the system we have suits him perferctly, but we don't have the other people in the squad to make it work. It does also get the best out of Semedo. The other issue is that our defense is not solid enough to play 4-4-2. IF we were to play 4-4-2 and use our "better players" You end up with 2 forwards and 3 of our four midfielders who are primarly attacking and our other midfielder not good enough on the ball to make things happen. That side is going to get absolutley HAMMERED on the break WHEN we lose the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It would. If DJ had a couple of wingers like Whittingham who he had at Cardiff, it might work, but not with Antonio and JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrie18 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Even when we played 442 last season we rarely saw more than 3 players in the box. How often did Semedo and Lines get in there? It's only from set plays or when we push defenders up in the final few minutes. The new system can work but its dependent on your full backs getting forward to provide the width. Every week, you see teams using this system and creating chances galore. The biggest problem for us in trying to make it work is we don't have a striker with any decent movement They don't even have to have pace, look at Berbatov, it's just knowing when and where to make the runs. Yakubu was brilliant at playing the lone striker and creating his own chances and i wouldn't say he had outstanding pace either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last_Great_Hope Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It would. If DJ had a couple of wingers like Whittingham who he had at Cardiff, it might work, but not with Antonio and JJ. True. Whittingham likes to move inside and get involved in the play - almost like an auxilliry Centre Mid so he's never that far away for if the play breaks down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Obviously it's an advantage if you have pace, but it's your ability to be able to turn your defender and produce good movement on and off the ball. COG and Madine are far too static in this respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TDJL Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Replace Jones with Reda and our back four looks solid, midfield looks weak when we haven't got the ball though that's why DJ is forced to play 4-5-1. we need to sure up one side with a player like Peter Whittingham who has a great left foot and works hard off the ball, that'll free up the other side, which could be rotated between JJ and Antonio. We're not a million miles away, the philosophy is there, we just need one or two additions but it takes time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last_Great_Hope Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Replace Jones with Reda and our back four looks solid, midfield looks weak when we haven't got the ball though that's why DJ is forced to play 4-5-1. we need to sure up one side with a player like Peter Whittingham who has a great left foot and works hard off the ball, that'll free up the other side, which could be rotated between JJ and Antonio. We're not a million miles away, the philosophy is there, we just need one or two additions but it takes time... Not sure about that. None of our CB's are that mobile and will always struggle to deal with a breakaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triplej2 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 We rely far too much on confidence and the game going our way, the minute things go a bit wrong we fold like a deckchair. Going 1 nil down, especially at home should signal an onslaught and a "You can score, we can score" attitude but with us that goal against breaks us and you can see the self belief is shaken. That mental fragility in my mind is because we're not a well oiled machine and we're short on leaders to rally and calm the team. It often actually does appear to be men against boys when we play anyone half decent. We'll still beat the odd decent team with a fair wind on a day when everything goes right but by and large our propensity to panic and shrink in terms of stature in the match is gonna mean we'll lose a hell of a lot of games. If DJ can sort that out with a fresh face or 2 then we can be mid table no probs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancowl08 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 For me, Bothroyd has to play upfront in a 4-4-2 formation alongside either Madine, Rodri or O'Grady. We should definitely play with 2 wingers again and see how it goes, surely JJ and Mayor can adapt playing on the wing by tucking inside and providing defensive cover when we haven't got the ball?! JJ played right back for a few games so he must have this in his locker. I'd like to see to see it as more of a diamond formation with Barkley at the top, and Semedo at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last_Great_Hope Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 For me, Bothroyd has to play upfront in a 4-4-2 formation alongside either Madine, Rodri or O'Grady. We should definitely play with 2 wingers again and see how it goes, surely JJ and Mayor can adapt playing on the wing by tucking inside and providing defensive cover when we haven't got the ball?! JJ played right back for a few games so he must have this in his locker. I'd like to see to see it as more of a diamond formation with Barkley at the top, and Semedo at the back. But then teams who play 3 in the middle (quite a few in this league) would absolutely destroy our midfield. If Barkley is playing behind the strikers and semedo plays defensively, then who is going to be battling for the ball in midfield? The diamond works when you don't actually play with wingers at all - but effectively four CM's - on defensive, one attacking and two in the middle. The width would be created by our full backs. Not sure that would work with our team through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I would seriously worry if we attempted to play 442 again with the wingers we have Both Antonio and JJ can be devastating on their day but both lack the discipline needed to operate as wingers in that system. As you say, JJ has filled in at right back so he should in theory be able to do it. Big problem though, he switches off too often and isn't aware of the possibilities, or dangers, around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TDJL Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Not sure about that. None of our CB's are that mobile and will always struggle to deal with a breakaway. That's because they are left exposed by the midfield and Daniel Jones isn't helping matters, he is a league 1 player (an average one at that!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last_Great_Hope Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 That's because they are left exposed by the midfield and Daniel Jones isn't helping matters, he is a league 1 player (an average one at that!) But if we play with two strikers and two wingers and two midfielders, then they would be exposed even more as we would not have Semedo screening the back for like we have now??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookone Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 We did look pretty damn good and had lots of movement and broke well the first 2 home matches of the season and while playing decent teams, so we can do it. I do think a lot of it is now down to lack of confidence following our terrible run, that and needing a pacey striker that can actually score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee A Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 That's because they are left exposed by the midfield and Daniel Jones isn't helping matters, he is a league 1 player (an average one at that!) I agree, but Jones is far from the only league 1 standard player in our team unfortunately, I think we are fielding 4 or 5 every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TDJL Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 But if we play with two strikers and two wingers and two midfielders, then they would be exposed even more as we would not have Semedo screening the back for like we have now??? I agree mate I agree, but Jones is far from the only league 1 standard player in our team unfortunately, I think we are fielding 4 or 5 every week. name them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee A Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) name them.... Not going to be popular with some of these but O Grady, not his effort, purely his ability. Llera ( from a purely defensive point of view ) JJ Jones we've covered Admittedly these lads are all more than capable of tearing league 1 a new bumhole, but when we are talking about consistently competing in the championship, I dont feel that these are really going to take us forward, Compare them to players in the same positions for other clubs in this division, its worrying. Edited November 13, 2012 by Lee A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last_Great_Hope Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I agree mate name them.... Llera JJ D Jones Corry (ATM - he certainly could get much better) Llera JJ D Jones Corry (ATM - he certainly could get much better) Edit - forgot COG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TDJL Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Not going to be popular with some of these but O Grady, not his effort, purely his ability. Llera ( from a purely defensive point of view ) JJ Jones we've covered Admittedly these lads are all more than capable of tearing league 1 a new bumhole, but when we are talking about consistently competing in the championship, I dont feel that these are really going to take us forward, Compare them to players in the same positions for other clubs in this division, its worrying. Llera is good enough for this division - big, strong, 100% effort, scores goals, bit slow but you can get away with that at this level! JJ has the ability for this level and beyond..... I can see your point about COG Daniel Jones (we're all agreed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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