Moore

[daleblue]

23 minutes ago, thewookieisdown said:

That's interesting. My worry would be wholly the opposite. It took a long time to find the right system and having found it, we are at our weakest when we drift away from it.

 

My main worry is that I find our recruitment over this summer decidedly underwhelming. Most people who follow it more closely than I do think otherwise, so hopefully I am misguided. How far Moore gets the credit or blame, as the case may be, is hard to know from the outside.

 

 

 

I was talking moore of last, so you are moore than correct.

[mcmigo]

10 minutes ago, Jim said:

As this thread suggests some blame him for our relegation.

 

We weren’t staying up with the strike force that Monk had assembled. Letting Nuhiu go was an absolute disgrace of a decision made worse by the absolute sh!t he signed.

 

Anyway since Moore has got his feet under the table he’s gone some way to rectifying some of the problems he inherited but he’s not going to rectify 30 years of damage in 18 months even though the OT anthill mob expect him to.

 

I expect him to be the man to turn this club around if he’s given the necessary time. I believe the chairman will, he definitely won’t get that time from the fans.

 

He is not the finished article as a manager as some have already pointed out. He’s the best man manager DC has appointed and also looks to have the desire to succeed here and the necessary calmness to cope with the basket case of a club which Sheffield Wednesday’s undoubtedly is. We don’t stick with him things will get a lot worse.

You were spot on with your first sentence and then wildly wrong with your second.

 

we would have stayed up comfortably that season had the chairman not mismanaged the club leading to the points deduction that relegated us. The blame for relegation lies with him, not Garry Monk . 

[DIPPS_S.W.F.C]

Its because we have fans on here no matter what will always try to find negativity in anything SWFC,from DC to DM to Palmer even when doing well.Be nice to all push in the  same positive  direction for once...

Criticism is healthy but,sometimes the stick DM gets is well over top usually 2-3hrs after final whistle good or poor result.

Think alot of it is bored keyboard warriors with nothing better to do and Wednesday are be all and end all to them..

I like to call them trolls or dirty pigs infiltrating our forum...

UTO...

[Jim]

37 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

You were spot on with your first sentence and then wildly wrong with your second.

 

we would have stayed up comfortably that season had the chairman not mismanaged the club leading to the points deduction that relegated us. The blame for relegation lies with him, not Garry Monk . 

The chairman has take the blame for the points deduction. No doubt about that but we were probably 5 or 6 goals short of staying up which Nuhiu would’ve got. Sadly we signed Kachunga and Marriott instead so Mr Monk has to accept some responsibility for this. 

[parajack]

2 hours ago, Jack the Hat said:

Its gone now but yes, with 11 games to save the season it was crazy introducing a new system rather than playing a style to suit the players and changing it close season. We had some decent individuals as well at the time - look at the Cardiff game. I'm not saying it got us relegated, of course not, but it reduced our already slim chances of staying up. It was crazy for the sake of a few weeks, especially as you say, a chunk of those players were leaving, anyway.

A REAL voice of sanity 

[parajack]

26 minutes ago, DIPPS_S.W.F.C said:

Its because we have fans on here no matter what will always try to find negativity in anything SWFC,from DC to DM to Palmer even when doing well.Be nice to all push in the  same positive  direction for once...

Criticism is healthy but,sometimes the stick DM gets is well over top usually 2-3hrs after final whistle good or poor result.

Think alot of it is bored keyboard warriors with nothing better to do and Wednesday are be all and end all to them..

I like to call them trolls or dirty pigs infiltrating our forum...

UTO...

So to sum up anyones post you disagree with or whose opinion differs from your own would fall into that category? Pathetic

[parajack]

2 hours ago, SiJ said:

I think it's a vocal minority who are very vociferous in their criticism of Moore. 

 

For those people, I'm not sure there's a great deal he could do to change their mind on him. 

 

Personally, I don't think he's the second coming of Pep Guardiola, and there have been times where I've scratched my head at certain decisions, but he did a decent job last season and just came up a bit short at the end. 

 

It was enough for me to think he deserves another crack at the whip and hopefully this is the season where he gets us over the line. 

 

He's a nice bloke. Got the team playing some very good football in the second part of last season. Excellent at recruitment. Perhaps tactically a bit naive at times, but that will hopefully improve as he gets more experience. A very good ambassador and figurehead for the club. 

Fair post

[parajack]

1 hour ago, markowl said:

You'd rather have kept the same system that patently didn't work in the 32 games before he arrived?

Yes because it was a systym the players knew had played before.and had a full pre season at.Player contracts were ending others were low on confidence and out of form(particularly defenders ) and it made no sense whatsoever to add to that by playing it out,something according to todays paper anyway even Man Utd are struggling to do.Should have stuck to what the players knew but done it better

[onefurlongout]

Does anyone think that Moore would benefit by bringing more experience on the coaching front?

 

As pointed out his tactics both prior and in game are questionable, and given that were a very one dimensional at times he's been out thought by more experienced managers. This has cost us a lot of points over the course of the last 2 seasons. 

 

 

[parajack]

1 hour ago, markowl said:

And for the record, I'm not using his illness to stifle criticism.

 

It's a cold hard fact that he was seriously ill.

 

I'm sure, if @parajackwas fighting for his life in hospital he'd be quite happy to take criticism on his performance at work.

Really? So why bring it up again than this time aimed at me? Is it perhaps you didn’t refute a single point I made about our tactics in our relegation season?nothing personal in my remarks to you post not poster

[markowl]

18 minutes ago, parajack said:

Yes because it was a systym the players knew had played before.and had a full pre season at.Player contracts were ending others were low on confidence and out of form(particularly defenders ) and it made no sense whatsoever to add to that by playing it out,something according to todays paper anyway even Man Utd are struggling to do.Should have stuck to what the players knew but done it better

We were losing week in and week out with the system Pulis used.

 

 

[markowl]

15 minutes ago, parajack said:

Really? So why bring it up again than this time aimed at me? Is it perhaps you didn’t refute a single point I made about our tactics in our relegation season?nothing personal in my remarks to you post not poster

How can a guy be blamed for relegation when he managed the team for around a fifth of it?

[the monk]

2 minutes ago, markowl said:

How can a guy be blamed for relegation when he managed the team for around a fifth of it?

Same way he would have got credit had he dragged us clear 

[Guest Jack the Hat]

3 minutes ago, markowl said:

We were losing week in and week out with the system Pulis used.

 

 

To be fair the Pulis period was a disaster but we only played the Pulis way for the 10 games he was in charge.

[Guest]

I’m not impressed by him but it’s nothing personal. 
 

When he was appointed I was neither happy or disappointed, just wanted to see how he could do. Wasn’t impressed by how we finished the championship season as Rotherham/Derby lost about 6 on the bounce so survival was there for the taking. He also bottled a must win against Derby where we could have stayed up. Against that there’s the mitigating circumstances of him having covid but his staff were still implementing his ideas and he still had input. Anyway, despite that was prepared to give him a go last season still.

 

Wasn’t happy with how we started last season, first half of the season was really poor with the players he had at his disposal. Improved in the second half but the first half cost us automatic promotion which was the objective at the start of the season (players were all saying the target was to win the league back in august). Anyway, got another shot in the play offs and bottled that as well.

 

So his record reads: relegated, then failed to go up with the largest budget in the league. It’s not great.

 

I just think there are better managers out there. I feel a general apathy towards where we are as a club, want to see us back in the PL or at least compete for it, and we feel a long way off being a top half championship club which is my minimum expectation. My problem with Moore is that I expect him to blow hot and cold but not get the job done. He shows enough to keep the eternal optimists onside but ultimately I’d be surprised if he actually got us promoted.

 

If we don’t get promoted then my minimum expectations of top half championship just keep getting further and further away. That’s why I feel unwilling to accept anything less than promotion all the time in this league. You can see from a lot of the other posts though that people are happy as long as we score a few against no mark teams even if we’re just treading water in league 1. Wish I could be satisfied with that it would make things a lot easier.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, markowl said:

How can a guy be blamed for relegation when he managed the team for around a fifth of it?

Because he came in when there were 14 games to go (so more like a third of the season), and come the end of the season it turns out that 16 points from those 14 games would have been enough to stay up. Or only 15 points from 14 games had we beaten Derby. 
 

If you said to a new manager right you’ve got 14 games and we need 16 points to survive can you do it.. most would say yeah that’s possible. It was a failure to not achieve that.

 

Obviously at the time of appointment we looked more dead and buried than that but that was before both Rotherham and Derby imploded. A competent manager would have got enough points from those games to stay up.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

7 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

I’m not impressed by him but it’s nothing personal. 
 

When he was appointed I was neither happy or disappointed, just wanted to see how he could do. Wasn’t impressed by how we finished the championship season as Rotherham/Derby lost about 6 on the bounce so survival was there for the taking. He also bottled a must win against Derby where we could have stayed up. Against that there’s the mitigating circumstances of him having covid but his staff were still implementing his ideas and he still had input. Anyway, despite that was prepared to give him a go last season still.

 

Wasn’t happy with how we started last season, first half of the season was really poor with the players he had at his disposal. Improved in the second half but the first half cost us automatic promotion which was the objective at the start of the season (players were all saying the target was to win the league back in august). Anyway, got another shot in the play offs and bottled that as well.

 

So his record reads: relegated, then failed to go up with the largest budget in the league. It’s not great.

 

I just think there are better managers out there. I feel a general apathy towards where we are as a club, want to see us back in the PL or at least compete for it, and we feel a long way off being a top half championship club which is my minimum expectation. My problem with Moore is that I expect him to blow hot and cold but not get the job done. He shows enough to keep the eternal optimists onside but ultimately I’d be surprised if he actually got us promoted.

 

If we don’t get promoted then my minimum expectations of top half championship just keep getting further and further away. That’s why I feel unwilling to accept anything less than promotion all the time in this league. You can see from a lot of the other posts though that people are happy as long as we score a few against no mark teams even if we’re just treading water in league 1. Wish I could be satisfied with that it would make things a lot easier.

Very well said. This is how I feel.

[MallorcaOwl]

I am not a fan of Moore. There were too many factors invilved to blame any one person for our relagation. However given the resources at his disposal kast season we should have gained promotion. My main concern regarding our manager is his inconsistancy, both in his team selection and his game management. his prefered style of play before he came to us was a variation on a 442. With the players at his disposal when he first joined us he opted for a very defensive 5 at the back, his wing backs were basically defenders.

his game management is defensive we lost a lot of matches after going in front. Iast season he had a full pre season to plan his style of play and recruitment strategy, he bought too many players who were not good enough, and he carried on with his 5 at the back.

Whilst I don't blame him for continuing with his formation, he makes it a defensive  352 rather than an attacking 352.

He may well get us promoted this season, but I doubt that we will walk the league. Most people would be happy with 4 points from our first 2 games, but ther weren't 4 good point. We threw the first game away from a good start. the MKD was dire. I couldn't identify any game plan, it looked like he picked 11 players, and said go and have a game lads. there was no cohesion, it looked as if they had never played togther before. I really hope that I am wrong and DM gets us promoted.

 

[shezzas left peg]

1 hour ago, mcmigo said:

You were spot on with your first sentence and then wildly wrong with your second.

 

we would have stayed up comfortably that season had the chairman not mismanaged the club leading to the points deduction that relegated us. The blame for relegation lies with him, not Garry Monk . 

I suppose you can blame DC even more as after sacking mono , he appointed pulis which turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. I' wasn't a fan of monk ,but I'm pretty sure we'd have notched another 3-6 points and stayed up. 

[Avon barksdale]

11 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

Because he came in when there were 14 games to go (so more like a third of the season), and come the end of the season it turns out that 16 points from those 14 games would have been enough to stay up. Or only 15 points from 14 games had we beaten Derby. 
 

If you said to a new manager right you’ve got 14 games and we need 16 points to survive can you do it.. most would say yeah that’s possible. It was a failure to not achieve that.

 

Obviously at the time of appointment we looked more dead and buried than that but that was before both Rotherham and Derby imploded. A competent manager would have got enough points from those games to stay up.

Are you forgetting the bit where we weren’t paying the players wages and most of the squad was either on loan or out of contract so didn’t give a t@ss whether we stayed up or not . Only one man to blame for relegation it ain’t Moore