latemodelchild Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 7 hours ago, scram said: From what I have seen reported he was allowed to stand up before being taken off That would likely rule out a cardiac event - certainly not one that required attention on the pitch Hopefully it's not something that will harm his health or indeed his career https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59395982 Positive report here thankfully. Must be hard to concentrate on the game in the immediate aftermath of something like that. Well done to the players and medical staff for everything they did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Tea Baggins said: I was told by a Dr a good few years ago in a conversation regarding energy drinks and gels that they will have a lot to answer for in a generation. Im no expert but surely artificially adding extreme amounts of a stimulant to your body on a regular basis would have a negative effect after years of regular use? I've read articles about the dangers of energy drinks. Pumping loads of caffeine into your body isn't good for the heart. The last article I read a few years ago reckoned that there will be a lot of people with energy drink related problems in the future. I was visiting somebody who was drinking up to 7 a day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorrallOwl17 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Get well soon John Fleck, stand out player for the blades since Wilder joined, had a solid 5 years there hasn't he. Speedy recovery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 54 minutes ago, darra said: I've read articles about the dangers of energy drinks. Pumping loads of caffeine into your body isn't good for the heart. The last article I read a few years ago reckoned that there will be a lot of people with energy drink related problems in the future. I was visiting somebody who was drinking up to 7 a day. TBf i think that relates more to some of the population who seem to survive on energy drinks The professional sports population used high quality supplements from renowned suppliers and they are used to supplement dietary intake where the physical output demands aren't generally matched by nutritional intake Take recovery drinks for eg - it's much easier for a player/athlete to down some liquid refreshment within the "golden zone" of 15 minutes after a match/session than it is to eat a couple of bowls of pasta Taking on too much supplementation will usually be dealt with buy the body and got rid of 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 12 minutes ago, scram said: TBf i think that relates more to some of the population who seem to survive on energy drinks The professional sports population used high quality supplements from renowned suppliers and they are used to supplement dietary intake where the physical output demands aren't generally matched by nutritional intake Take recovery drinks for eg - it's much easier for a player/athlete to down some liquid refreshment within the "golden zone" of 15 minutes after a match/session than it is to eat a couple of bowls of pasta Taking on too much supplementation will usually be dealt with buy the body and got rid of A few guys I know are smashing caffeine, to what I'd consider as ridiculous high levels, such as 8+ mg/kg/bw. Then there's the abuse of painkillers, such as diclofenac and ibuprofen, which seems to be rife in football. Not surprising really with the demands placed on the players. Then there's all the grey area stuff that goes on, such as half the Liverpool squad using asthma meds. I think what we are seeing on the whole is the result of athletes just being pushed to the absolute limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Asthma reliever meds are beta-2 agonists and banned in football other than salbutamol by inhalation in metered doses which equates to around 8 inhalations per 12 hour period It's strictly controlled and can only be exceeded in an emergency and then has to be explained with a diagnosis/treatment explanation from a clinical specialist Then UKAD will likely issue a therapeutic use exemption - strictly monitored with defined allowance of how much of the banned substance the blood can contain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Football has always had fad things which is supposed to help performance. Years ago we had the nose strips that was supposed to help breathing then there was the footballers putting handfuls of "Vick" on their shirts. In the old days it was "elemans embrocation" which for all I know might still be being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChapSmurf Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 I read about this last night and it totally slipped my mind until my partner mentioned it again just now. Glad to hear he is conscious and I hope he makes a full and speedy recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 13 hours ago, helmut_rooster said: Not medical person at all but could this be Covid related? Lasting effects? Erikson? Man In crowd at Newcastle? 2 people at a West Brom game recently? Flecky tonight? Looked horrible, shaking uncontrollably. I mean if we look at the ratios here. That’s 5 people out of roughly 100,000+ people (if you add up all the attendances from those events) who have suffered some sort of health problem. Hardly groundbreaking stats and not an indicator of more people becoming unwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 hours ago, scram said: Asthma reliever meds are beta-2 agonists and banned in football other than salbutamol by inhalation in metered doses which equates to around 8 inhalations per 12 hour period It's strictly controlled and can only be exceeded in an emergency and then has to be explained with a diagnosis/treatment explanation from a clinical specialist Then UKAD will likely issue a therapeutic use exemption - strictly monitored with defined allowance of how much of the banned substance the blood can contain This is an interesting read on the subject, specifically about Liverpool, but also mentions Leicester https://backpagefootball.com/why-liverpool-wont-win-the-premier-league-this-season/126313/ UKAD haven't been taking bloods since Covid either, just urine, plus the amount of bloods taken at pro football clubs is miniscule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gob_Bluth Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 5 hours ago, darra said: I've read articles about the dangers of energy drinks. Pumping loads of caffeine into your body isn't good for the heart. The last article I read a few years ago reckoned that there will be a lot of people with energy drink related problems in the future. I was visiting somebody who was drinking up to 7 a day. My girlfriends friend is 33 and has been in hospital 3/4 times with kidney problems / massive kidney stones, she has at least 3/4 red bulls a day and the doctors keeping telling her they're the cause but she still keeps knocking them back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG D Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 hours ago, 0742 said: This is an interesting read on the subject, specifically about Liverpool, but also mentions Leicester https://backpagefootball.com/why-liverpool-wont-win-the-premier-league-this-season/126313/ UKAD haven't been taking bloods since Covid either, just urine, plus the amount of bloods taken at pro football clubs is miniscule. UKAD don't perform drug testing in football - the FA do But the point i made was about therapeutic exemptions - which are monitored via blood if there is an anomalous result The tests in training and matches are urine analysis - bloods are for disputes or certain types of markers for other analysis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, scram said: UKAD don't perform drug testing in football - the FA do But the point i made was about therapeutic exemptions - which are monitored via blood if there is an anomalous result The tests in training and matches are urine analysis - bloods are for disputes or certain types of markers for other analysis The FA work in partnership with UKAD. Kind of a moot point though and not really relevant to the subject being discussed, although that said, we're all just guessing at this stage. Could be any number of factors and i'm not even sure if the incidences we're seeing are more than usual, or whether it's just the fact of more media/awareness. Referring back to the original point i made; players are being pushed, they're also using ergogenic aids in manners where the scientific evidence or research base is not available. The number of tests being undertaken has been tiny, for obvious reasons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildatheart67 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Le Tiss of course put the blame on Ericksens collapse on covid vaccine almost immediately. He only send a public "best wishes" to a day later ,after it had been announced Ericksen was unvaccinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 The FA do test under auspices of UKAD (and WADA) however their protocols and punishments are set by the FA - which invariably are more lenient than UKAD. We are definitely seeing more on-pitch collapses and adverse events imo The reasons could be multifactorial but i was at a seminar with the head medic for the LTA back almost at the beginning of the first lockdown and they were tracking adverse events around the world and were very stringent in testing the bodies systems post-covid they had early evidence of cardiac events and myocarditis which has definitely come into the realm now We cannot say for sure if any of this is covid/vaccine related - but it sure as hell needs checking out 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 5 hours ago, BIG D said: File next to right said Fred 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Flashman Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) I work with a bloke who sups about 8 cans of that Monster a day. His heads like a bleedin beetroot. Reckons he gets too tired if he doesn't sup it!! Probably the come down off it. I reckon he's hooked like a smack addict. Also, all the best to John Fleck. Stuff like that can be terrifying. I once went down with fluid on me lung. Edited November 24, 2021 by Errol Flashman Just a bloke. Being dragged along in a world that moves too quick for it's own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaykz Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 23 hours ago, Skyline said: Or maybe the route of people having covid without knowing? The tests are not 100% and the symptoms are up and down. I'm not saying any of it is related btw, but I'm sure there's loads of us who have had covid without knowing. P.s. I'm double jabbed so not one of those who don't agree with it 23 hours ago, scram said: Fleck will have had so many tests it's totally implausible they were all wrong Fleck had Covid in June. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57315647 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 I don't know the background to this and haven't been able to verify but if true is incredibly concerning https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/frontlinenews/500-increase-in-sudden-cardiac-and-unexplained-deaths-among-fifa-athletes-in-2021/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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