Guest Jack the Hat Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said: I think Ron Atkinson was a much better manager then Francis but I agree with you that some people are wrong to automatically assume Atkinson would have won the league in 1991/92. Worth remembering that Atkinson was manager at some big clubs including Manchester United for 5 years and never won the league. Think he was more of a big game manager overall in his career which is why he records in the cups is much better than the league. So you're saying we would have won the European Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon barksdale Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 3 hours ago, @owlstalk said: The best way to judge Francis as an actual manager is to ask how he would do today with this squad Would he keep us up? The best way to judge a manager is a completely made up hypothetical situation ?? Not sure I agree with that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilnhurstowl Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 If we are to.judge Francis on how he would deal with today's squad and he is viewed as a bad manager , then surely those who say monk failed are justified in doing so. His results were awful. I don't care if we were third at one point. We collapsed and he rightly got the sack. Francis was so much better than what some give credit for. Not the best I agree but the best after big Ron that we have had I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sham67 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Bit like Chansiri, the signings under Francis got worse the longer he was here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrev Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Some of my fondest memories of following the owls were during Tricky Trevs time as manager. His downfall however was breaking up that side after Wembley too early, especially as some of those players went onto play at a decent level for a few more years. Also he replaced them with players who weren’t as good.... Worthington > Nolan Nillson > Atherton Palmer > Taylor Pearson > Pearce Although in his defence he did bring in Des Walker during this period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said: Some of my fondest memories of following the owls were during Tricky Trevs time as manager. His downfall however was breaking up that side after Wembley too early, especially as some of those players went onto play at a decent level for a few more years. Also he replaced them with players who weren’t as good.... Worthington > Nolan Nillson > Atherton Palmer > Taylor Pearson > Pearce Although in his defence he did bring in Des Walker during this period. To be fair to Francis, it's quite clear that for his second phase of squad rebuilding, the Charterhouse money was gone, the debts were beginning to mount and we were forced to shop in a marketplace that it seems he was not so comfortable with. So there came an influx of mediocre players compared with what went before and he couldn't elevate their performances and I imagine most other managers wouldn't have been able to either. It was also a period where one of our greatest players of the modern era wasn't available much and he was often less than 100% when he played. Bit of a handicap going from David Hirst to Gordon Watson, Nigel Jemson or Guy Whittingham. Edited March 30, 2021 by DJMortimer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Rimmer Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 He didn’t do much else after us, that says it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 23 hours ago, Jack the Hat said: Like I've got time to mess around like that. I was there at the time and we were outspending Arsenal, I have a fully functioning memory. Waddle was a bargain due to his age and Francis's connections helped, but was it inspired or pure obvious decision. Blackburn were the big spenders at the time and we were in the bunch below them. For example in 1992 they bought Shearer for 3.3million, which was a record and the following season we paid 2.75million for Andy Sinton. That put into context the money at his disposal, relative to the time and how wisely he spent it. There are more examples like that. There weren't many teams in 92-94, other than Blackburn outspending us. Absolute bolloxe..i was there at the time also. We needed 2 players to win the league...richards decided not to go for it..he didn't like francis and never did....in context loads of transfers go apeshyte...you cherry pick one 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Ellis Rimmer said: He didn’t do much else after us, that says it all He didn't do much else FOR us when he was manager Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 2 hours ago, DJMortimer said: To be fair to Francis, it's quite clear that for his second phase of squad rebuilding, the Charterhouse money was gone, the debts were beginning to mount and we were forced to shop in a marketplace that it seems he was not so comfortable with. So there came an influx of mediocre players compared with what went before and he couldn't elevate their performances and I imagine most other managers wouldn't have been able to either. It was also a period where one of our greatest players of the modern era wasn't available much and he was often less than 100% when he played. Bit of a handicap going from David Hirst to Gordon Watson, Nigel Jemson or Guy Whittingham. But we're constantly told on here that managers should work with what they've been given and that Garry Monk and co are rubbish because they couldn't manage their players Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracksuit Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 40 minutes ago, sherlyegg said: Absolute bolloxe..i was there at the time also. We needed 2 players to win the league...richards decided not to go for it..he didn't like francis and never did....in context loads of transfers go apeshyte...you cherry pick one Which 2 players from that time do you think would have made the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 52 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: He didn't do much else FOR us when he was manager Well... apart from our highest league finish of the last 60 years, our only appearance in a major European competition in the last 57, three consecutive finishes in the top 7 of the country which we had not done since 1964 and becoming only the second team ever to play in both domestic cup finals in the same season (unfortunately for us, Arsenal were of course the first, and in the same year). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexpistol Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 22 hours ago, @owlstalk said: He never managed the team - the team did the managing/running/success Aye I’m sure he never managed the team. I’m guessing this is how the conversation went one day. Warhurst “Trevor I’ve decided I’m playing up front when we play Forest away and I want to be a forward from now on” Francis “ Okay, whatever Paul, after all I don’t manage the team you lot do” Is this what you reckon happened then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl Be Back Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 This debate is starting to remind me of Life of Brian and the "what have the Romans ever done for us" scene! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Big Rons Hairspray said: Which 2 players from that time do you think would have made the difference? I think if Wednesday had gone for it we could have got shearer the fees of Woods and Sinton would've been enough at that time and maybe held on to Cantona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 A midfield of Waddle, Sheridan, Palmer and Cantona with Hirst and Shearer up front it could've happened but Wednesday always seem to pull back when they had a chance to be really something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 I find it hilarious how Neil slates Francis ever chance he gets. But was so far up Monk's arse he could tell us what he had for breakfast 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 24 minutes ago, Sticky Micky said: I find it hilarious how Neil slates Francis ever chance he gets. But was so far up Monk's arse he could tell us what he had for breakfast Have never been up Monk's arse - not ever I'd love to have seen what Trevor Francis would have done with the same players Monk was given My guess? Relegation Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 hour ago, sexpistol said: Aye I’m sure he never managed the team. I’m guessing this is how the conversation went one day. Warhurst “Trevor I’ve decided I’m playing up front when we play Forest away and I want to be a forward from now on” Francis “ Okay, whatever Paul, after all I don’t manage the team you lot do” Is this what you reckon happened then? We recently had a manager play Forestieri at left back - he got slated DOUBLE STANDARDS Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 2 hours ago, DJMortimer said: Well... apart from our highest league finish of the last 60 years, our only appearance in a major European competition in the last 57, three consecutive finishes in the top 7 of the country which we had not done since 1964 and becoming only the second team ever to play in both domestic cup finals in the same season (unfortunately for us, Arsenal were of course the first, and in the same year). Not being funny but Jos Luhukay would have done that with that squad 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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