torryowl Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 2 very good seasons 1 ok one and then one that was a struggle that led to the sack .......i wasnt disappointed when he got the bullet but with the hindsight of whats happened since i look back fondly of his time here which is summat i cant say about many managers weve had since . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosbyKitchens Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 His biggest mistake in my mind was that after the cup finals year, he let Harkes and Pearson leave at the same time. I know he needed to get the squad younger, but that started a series of replacements that just weren't up to it. Andy Pierce, Guy Whittingham, Peter Atherton. Admittedly Petrescu was a great signing, but he didn't stay long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 7 hours ago, Basement Jack said: Divides opinion does Trevor Francis Made some poor signings toward the end of his reign true. However I will always remember his time here fondly Trips to Wembley European Football Gave me the most memorable half of football I’ve over seen Wednesday play (v Blackburn in the cup) Took us within a whisker of the title too Yep some signings were poor and decline was maybe setting in but I can forgive that for the memories his signings Waddle Walker and Warhurst left Also those absolutely fantastic cameo appearances under Atkinson in his late thirties He had a difficult task following Atkinson especially with the charisma of Atkinson. Francis never had that and could be controversial at times but I for one look back on his time fondly The managerial role when Ron left was such a critical decision and it in hindsight we got it wrong. Francis was unproven and unlike Atkinson it transpired he didn't have what it took to get that extra 5% out of the squad/luck whatever that was needed to land a trophy. I still feel we missed a chance to land a big fish with a proven track record - we were going places and an attractive proposition with a great squad. Whilst we’ll never know, I think we’d have won at least one of those trophies with a decent manager at the helm. I never felt at the time we’d win anything with Francis in charge and so it proved. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZicoSterland2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 3 hours ago, @owlstalk said: He was a horrific 'manager' He never managed the team - the team did the managing/running/success Francis was awful Thats your opinion. No ones matched it since though or even got near. So if he was awful I would take that over the SH1 te we have been served ever since. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracksuit Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 47 minutes ago, Earlsfieldowl said: The managerial role when Ron left was such a critical decision and it in hindsight we got it wrong. Francis was unproven and unlike Atkinson it transpired he didn't have what it took to get that extra 5% out of the squad/luck whatever that was needed to land a trophy. I still feel we missed a chance to land a big fish with a proven track record - we were going places and an attractive proposition with a great squad. Whilst we’ll never know, I think we’d have won at least one of those trophies with a decent manager at the helm. I never felt at the time we’d win anything with Francis in charge and so it proved. Which manager at the time would you have liked to take over? From memory I think Francis was recommended to the board by Big Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonstrix Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Horrific manager? Stands up, shakes head. Walks away. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl999 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 6 hours ago, sherlyegg said: Yep Waddle was a whole £1M..Warhorse was free. ..can you provide links where it says we were outspending Arsenal...or was it just over a couple of months..? Francis went on a split decision...that ******** wanky chairman at the time decided. Marvelous decision...never looked back since. Warhurst was 750 grand from Oldham 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, Big Rons Hairspray said: Which manager at the time would you have liked to take over? From memory I think Francis was recommended to the board by Big Ron. I can’t remember what/who the options were but there would have a been a few names to consider which could have been sounded out. Also the board weren’t obligated to take Atkinson's advice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexpistol Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Earlsfieldowl said: The managerial role when Ron left was such a critical decision and it in hindsight we got it wrong. Francis was unproven and unlike Atkinson it transpired he didn't have what it took to get that extra 5% out of the squad/luck whatever that was needed to land a trophy. I still feel we missed a chance to land a big fish with a proven track record - we were going places and an attractive proposition with a great squad. Whilst we’ll never know, I think we’d have won at least one of those trophies with a decent manager at the helm. I never felt at the time we’d win anything with Francis in charge and so it proved. To say webworms have won something with a different manager is pure speculation. Would they have bought in Waddle etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Thome Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 8 hours ago, Jack the Hat said: Like I've got time to mess around like that. I was there at the time and we were outspending Arsenal, I have a fully functioning memory. Waddle was a bargain due to his age and Francis's connections helped, but was it inspired or pure obvious decision. Blackburn were the big spenders at the time and we were in the bunch below them. For example in 1992 they bought Shearer for 3.3million, which was a record and the following season we paid 2.75million for Andy Sinton. That put into context the money at his disposal, relative to the time and how wisely he spent it. There are more examples like that. There weren't many teams in 92-94, other than Blackburn outspending us. Comparing Wednesday and Arsenal - it's not just about transfer spend though is it? Trevor Francis took over Wednesday in the Summer of 1991. In the Summer of 1991 Arsenal were reigning champions having won the league by 7 points, despite having a points deduction. Wednesday had just finished 6 points behind Oldham Athletic in the second division. Two points above Notts County in a position that in any other season wouldn't be worth automatic promotion. So maybe Arsenal already had a very good squad (Seaman, Adams, etc.). Whereas Wednesday in the past two seasons had come 18th and 23rd in the league pyramid. With a transfer outlay of £3m in 91/92 and £2.4m in 92/93 Francis then got us to 3rd and 7th with two cup finals. So yeah, it all started to go wrong the two seasons after, and yeah, Sinton was a bad buy, but sometimes people speak like it is a foregone conclusion Big Ron would had won the league with that squad. He had almost the same squad in 89/90 and got them relegated! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geedee Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 7 hours ago, @owlstalk said: Losing 7-1 at home to Forest wasn't one of the high points of supporting this club for me It was a shocking result but all managers and teams have them. Eg Ron Atkinsons Wednesday side losing 4-0 to Cambridge in the cup in 1991 This bloke suffered the odd bad day too. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/911559-manchester-united-their-10-biggest-defeats-under-sir-alex-ferguson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 The 1.2 million he spent on Woods could've been spent elsewhere on the team, we had two competent Keepers in Turner and Pressman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 6 hours ago, Emerson Thome said: Comparing Wednesday and Arsenal - it's not just about transfer spend though is it? Trevor Francis took over Wednesday in the Summer of 1991. In the Summer of 1991 Arsenal were reigning champions having won the league by 7 points, despite having a points deduction. Wednesday had just finished 6 points behind Oldham Athletic in the second division. Two points above Notts County in a position that in any other season wouldn't be worth automatic promotion. So maybe Arsenal already had a very good squad (Seaman, Adams, etc.). Whereas Wednesday in the past two seasons had come 18th and 23rd in the league pyramid. With a transfer outlay of £3m in 91/92 and £2.4m in 92/93 Francis then got us to 3rd and 7th with two cup finals. So yeah, it all started to go wrong the two seasons after, and yeah, Sinton was a bad buy, but sometimes people speak like it is a foregone conclusion Big Ron would had won the league with that squad. He had almost the same squad in 89/90 and got them relegated! The best way to judge Francis as an actual manager is to ask how he would do today with this squad Would he keep us up? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: The best way to judge Francis as an actual manager is to ask how he would do today with this squad Would he keep us up? I don't think Alex Ferguson would. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 17 hours ago, Jack the Hat said: He spent millions at a time when we were out spending teams like Arsenal and we ended up with a worse team. The team he inherited actually won something whereas his never did. Have you used 'hatred' deliberately as an emotive word, because what most people express is disappointment not hatred, that we made such an elementary mistake taking a gamble on a manager who had failed in his only previous job. I stand by my comment but thanks for the essay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 18 hours ago, Bulldog said: I concur, never understood the hatred directed at a manger who took us to Wembley twice and got us to 3rd, 7th & 7th in the best league in the world. Something we'll probably never see again. (now waiting for someone to say he only did it because he inherited Ron's team ) Used to amaze me the chants of "Francis Out". Just to be in the position that we were in then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 16 hours ago, @owlstalk said: He didn't do it because he was a great manager though He only did it because he literally couldn't fail with the squad he had And there it is- interseting how you edited out the last bit of my comment before quoting me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Only part-timer, glory hunters never appreciate what Francis did and wanted him sacked. Also as a player he was the best crosser of a ball I’ve ever seen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack the Hat Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Bulldog said: I stand by my comment but thanks for the essay. Essay? The reply is only slightly longer than your original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 8 hours ago, Emerson Thome said: So yeah, it all started to go wrong the two seasons after, and yeah, Sinton was a bad buy, but sometimes people speak like it is a foregone conclusion Big Ron would had won the league with that squad. He had almost the same squad in 89/90 and got them relegated! I think Ron Atkinson was a much better manager then Francis but I agree with you that some people are wrong to automatically assume Atkinson would have won the league in 1991/92. Worth remembering that Atkinson was manager at some big clubs including Manchester United for 5 years and never won the league. Think he was more of a big game manager overall in his career which is why he records in the cups is much better than the league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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