keefdave Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 9 hours ago, Kagoshimaowl said: Shaw is totally overrated anyway. He's certainly no Sean Flare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von shabba Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, hirstys_achilles said: He a confident lad and I sure he will think the more he is played the more teams will want him. Its not like Shaw trying to take advantage of a few fluke performances. So can there be a sell on clause ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, MarvelOwls said: Hasnt he got a 70% win rate? Pretty good stats I'm just reading. 16 defeats in 110 games. Imagine managing man City with all their resources cash, ground, marketing etc against Burton every week almost and a Bolton or Charlton a few times a season. Was checking Average attendances for spl. Only rangers ant celtic averaged above 18,000. Out of all the other clubs only 3 managed 17,000+. This is why win percentage means nothing unless its in the same league. It's like comparing Gerrard & lampards managerial carears so far. Yes Gerrard is running away with the league, but difference between spl and epl is massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirstys_achilles Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 54 minutes ago, Ray Von shabba said: So can there be a sell on clause ? Dont think so if Shaw moves as a free agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owling Wolfe Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Owls Loyal said: The Pulis-Lennon axis that set up the Shaw deal has been broken. Lennon "resigned" or was fired today. The word is that Celtic will look to Europe for a new Manager. Shaw sh*t on SWFC, the club that reared abnd developed him for over 10 years. It may not end well for him in Scotland. I was told by a source very close to the club that Shaw, who was earning £550 a week was offered an improved contract of £650 a week. Celtic offered £8k a week. I really don't think it is Shaw doing the "pooing on" to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley8 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Shaw signed a pre contract deal.... he's gone get over it. Unless he hasn't signed then it's over and shouldn't play again for us. It's a bad example for other youngsters and Celtic won't want him risking himself towards end of the season. Besides that KEEP Neil Lennon away from us can't stand him!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocksyuto Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, ashley8 said: Shaw signed a pre contract deal.... he's gone get over it. Unless he hasn't signed then it's over and shouldn't play again for us. It's a bad example for other youngsters and Celtic won't want him risking himself towards end of the season. Besides that KEEP Neil Lennon away from us can't stand him!!!!! Players can sign pre contract agreements with loads of clubs it’s not 100% done deal it’s just putting down on paper what they have offered him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, stocksyuto said: Players can sign pre contract agreements with loads of clubs it’s not 100% done deal it’s just putting down on paper what they have offered him. Really? Are there any examples of players signing pre-contract agreements with more than one club? I'd have thought that signing a pre-contract with one club would be final and binding, otherwise what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said: They still have to pay compensation which could end up being a couple of million. Celtic on the other hand can pick him up for less than 300k. I rate Shaw, I think he has all the attributes to be a top player. But still for Premier League clubs it’s a gamble considering most have their own young players they’re developing and giving first team opportunities too. We were in a very strong position to get him tied down long term and let him develop in our team. But our failure to tie him down left the door wide open for a club like Celtic to take a gamble on the lad. What evidence have you got that any English club would have to pay a couple of million for him if it went to tribunal? The kid has around half a dozen first team games, scored 1 goal and been sent off twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: Really? Are there any examples of players signing pre-contract agreements with more than one club? I'd have thought that signing a pre-contract with one club would be final and binding, otherwise what's the point? Ben Davies apparently signed a pre-contract deal with Celtic recently. https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/transfer-news/ben-davies-preston-transfer-celtic-19721046 He has since signed permanently for Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von shabba Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: What evidence have you got that any English club would have to pay a couple of million for him if it went to tribunal? The kid has around half a dozen first team games, scored 1 goal and been sent off twice. Not a great CV is it reading it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: What evidence have you got that any English club would have to pay a couple of million for him if it went to tribunal? The kid has around half a dozen first team games, scored 1 goal and been sent off twice. Obviously I don’t know for Shaw’s individual case. But a lot of compensation figures are in the millions. Celtic will be getting him for less than an English club would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Ben Davies apparently signed a pre-contract deal with Celtic recently. https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/transfer-news/ben-davies-preston-transfer-celtic-19721046 He has since signed permanently for Liverpool. As I posted earlier in the thread... 3 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: It turns out he didn't sign the pre-contract agreement with Celtic, despite reports to the contrary... Liverpool exploited a Celtic contract clanger to steal Ben Davies from the Scottish champions. The Preston defender was all set to move north of the border on July 1 after agreeing personal terms on a pre-contract, with his Deepdale deal ending in the summer. But Sunday People Sport can reveal that Celtic inserted a clause requiring the 25-year-old to be injury-free and fit to play when reporting for duty. While Davies wavered Liverpool jumped in to agree a deal worth up to £1.6 million with Holland Under-19s defender Sepp van den Berg going the other way on loan. Celtic boss Neil Lennon was left frustrated, believing he had landed the impressive central- defender for free. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-ben-davies-signing-celtic-23454860 It seems like the terms of the contract were agreed, then altered at the last minute by Celtic, which delayed the signing on the dotted line and allowed Liverpool to sneak in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Just now, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: As I posted earlier in the thread... Fair enough, but in the same sense, unless anyone has seen a signed contract how do we know that Shaw has agreed it all but not actually signed something binding? It was widely reported seemingly incorrectly that Davies had signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said: Obviously I don’t know for Shaw’s individual case. But a lot of compensation figures are in the millions. Celtic will be getting him for less than an English club would. Evidence? I know you like details to be provided. Maybe he would have cost a little more than the reported £300,000 it will cost Celtic but if he is so sought after that is still a drop in the ocean for PL clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Fair enough, but in the same sense, unless anyone has seen a signed contract how do we know that Shaw has agreed it all but not actually signed something binding? It was widely reported seemingly incorrectly that Davies had signed. We don't. That was my point earlier in the thread. If he's agreed terms but not signed anything, then there's a chance he might stay; if he's signed, then that's that, surely? I've just never come across a situation where a player had signed a pre-contract agreement with more than one club...well, except for Obi Mikel, and that ended up getting a bit messy, didn't it!? Edited February 24, 2021 by areNOTwhatTHEYseem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: We don't. That was my point earlier in the thread. If he's agreed terms but not signed anything, then there's a chance he might stay; if he's signed, then that's that, surely? I've just never come across a situation where a player had signed a pre-contract agreement with more than one club...well, except for Obi Mikel, and that ended up getting a bit messy, didn't it!? From what I've read a pre contract is not necessarily legally binding, it depends what's included in it. Are Pre-Contracts binding? The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked ‘Subject to Contract’ and are simply a commitment by the parties to enter into a later contract. The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Hookowl said: From what I've read a pre contract is not necessarily legally binding, it depends what's included in it. Are Pre-Contracts binding? The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked ‘Subject to Contract’ and are simply a commitment by the parties to enter into a later contract. The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding. When they say that a player has 'agreed terms' on a pre-contract agreement, I assume that means, as stated above, that it 'contains all the essential terms that have been agreed'. Otherwise, what would be the point of signing such an agreement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: When they say that a player has 'agreed terms' on a pre-contract agreement, I assume that means, as stated above, that it 'contains all the essential terms that have been agreed'. Otherwise, what would be the point of signing such an agreement? As it says in that quote it depends how it is worded, they could agree general terms but not stipulate specific items. Obviously I'm only guessing as no one has had sight of the supposed pre contract. FIFA’s Dispute Resolution Chamber (‘DRC’) has had to determine on a number of occasions whether a pre-contract has binding effect when a dispute between a club and a player has arisen. The DRC has generally held that a pre-contract is binding if it contains essential terms such as the duration of the contract, remuneration and additional benefits. Another factor taken into account by the DRC is whether the pre-contract has come into effect. If the pre-contract has been terminated prior to when it is due to take effect, then the DRC has been reluctant to find that the pre-contract is binding, whilst if the parties have already begun to perform their obligations under the pre-contract prior to any termination, then this is usually evidence to prove that the parties intended to be bound by the terms of the pre-contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Evidence? I know you like details to be provided. Maybe he would have cost a little more than the reported £300,000 it will cost Celtic but if he is so sought after that is still a drop in the ocean for PL clubs. Harvey Elliott Fulham to Liverpool - £4.6m Ethan Ampadu - Exeter to Chelsea - £2.5m Dominic Solanke Chelsea - Liverpool - £3m That’s off the top of my head. I’m sure there are more cases you can find online if you are so desperate for the information. Shaw is a good prospect but not sure Premier League club would risk potentially a few million in compensation for him at this stage of his development. I don’t think he’s ever going to be an England international but the fact remains he holds value to us at the moment. And we’re going to lose him for less than he potentially could make us. The ‘if he’s good enough Prem clubs would sign him argument’ is so rubbish. A lot of factors to take into account. Celtic are in the best position to take a gamble because of the low compensation fee. Means they can offer more in wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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