Guest mkowl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 51 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: I dont think Derby will get a penalty. Their case is about the valuation. They didn't try and do anything dodgy with the accounts! Amortisation policy on player transfer fees was changed and not really in accordance with accounting standards. Basically means the loss was lower So they have a case to answer there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Mcguigan said: So, apologies if this has already been addressed, if the £38m profit has been excluded from the 17/18 accounts and that in turn has meant we've breached P&S limits. Where does that £38m profit sit now? I'm presuming, although there's nothing on the companies house website, the 18/19 accounts are now filed. So is it too late to include the profit in there. You're confusing accounts as per HMG/HMRC with the accounts as per that of the EFL. The 17/18 Companies House accounts will be for reporting and tax purposes. What the EFL see is more about footballing fair play. The Companies House accounts don't need to change, but the money will now be moved to 18/19 for financial fair play reasons at the EFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nath83 said: I think the accounting point here is well dodgy. How can you account for a sale to someone years before the transaction happened or even the company you sold to was even set up But it just highlights the whole FFP / P&S as a farce. Chansiri has obviously got the money and sees that we're going to need a major cash boost. The loopholes the EFL make people jump through to invest in their own club is ridiculous. If he was just allowed to spend what he wanted we wouldn't have D taxis, his name plastered all over the stadium, name on our shirts, 10 year season tickets, etc. He'd be a damn sight poorer if the P&S limits where removed. Imagine all the clubs with parachute payments and mega wealthy owners, not £600m wealthy but £6b wealthy owners. On eveidence seen so far, Chansiri would be bankrupt within three years trying to get us promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 minute ago, 0114 said: This is from the EFL statement in November... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essix Blue Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Mcguigan said: He'd be a damn sight poorer if the P&S limits where removed. Imagine all the clubs with parachute payments and mega wealthy owners, not £600m wealthy but £6b wealthy owners. On eveidence seen so far, Chansiri would be bankrupt within three years trying to get us promoted. Yep. People seem to think DC has bottomless pockets....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: Well if there was nothing dodgy with the accounts in the 3 year period we did not break the £39million loss rule according to the accounts, so why have we been found guilty? Selling the stadium in one financial year and putting it in the previous years accounts smells dodgy to me! Depends on how you interpret the date of sale from an accounting perspective. Not quite as straightforward as buying a Kit Kat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: If there is nothing wrong with the accounts then we are within the EFL rules of losing no more than £39 million over a three year period! Efl An independent Disciplinary Commission, appointed under EFL Regulations, has ruled that Sheffield Wednesday will receive a 12 point deduction for breaching the League’s Profitability and Sustainability Rules for the three season reporting period ending with Season 2017/18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Just now, sherlyegg said: Efl An independent Disciplinary Commission, appointed under EFL Regulations, has ruled that Sheffield Wednesday will receive a 12 point deduction for breaching the League’s Profitability and Sustainability Rules for the three season reporting period ending with Season 2017/18. Hopefully we'll see the written reasons! Maybe they decided that the sale of Hillsborough should not have been included in the 17-18 accounts and if it wasn't by how much we would have breached FFP and been punished accordingly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Manwë said: You're confusing accounts as per HMG/HMRC with the accounts as per that of the EFL. The 17/18 Companies House accounts will be for reporting and tax purposes. What the EFL see is more about footballing fair play. The Companies House accounts don't need to change, but the money will now be moved to 18/19 for financial fair play reasons at the EFL. Going to be very interesting what the written reasons say. I still can't fathom how IF from an accounting and reporting perspective it is OK to have the sale in the 2017/18 accounts how an independent panel can argue differently for FFP purposes. The stadium valuation itself not an issue, the fair value adjustments not an issue. The date a transaction is recorded is not a balance of probability type call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 minute ago, jonnyowl said: Hopefully we'll see the written reasons! Not for a while, if we or the efl appeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Dont know the full story but dont get how we can be charged when efl signed them off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 minute ago, jonnyowl said: Hopefully we'll see the written reasons! Maybe they decided that the sale of Hillsborough should not have been included in the 17-18 accounts and if it wasn't by how much we would have breached FFP and been punished accordingly! The EFL statement refers to the date of the transaction and that it should have been in 2018/19 accounts. How they come to that conclusion compared to the conclusion the Club and its auditors came will be interesting to assess (if we get the chance). This is where it gets messy. The club could keep its accounts as previously filed for statutory purposes - this panel has zero power or authority to change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwellOwl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Could have been worse I suppose massive job, on and off field, to try and build a team ready for the battle and move forward. Next few weeks will be interesting, finer details released and what happens with appeals/challenges. Never boring. Enjoy the bumpy ride.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Just now, dan1980 said: Dont know the full story but dont get how we can be charged when efl signed them off We have no idea what was signed off and when, the context of this communication. Unfortunately I live in the world where I correspond with HMRC on behalf of clients. So the apparent authority of one person does not necessarily bind the organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 minute ago, mkowl said: We have no idea what was signed off and when, the context of this communication. Unfortunately I live in the world where I correspond with HMRC on behalf of clients. So the apparent authority of one person does not necessarily bind the organisation. I dont know anything about stuff like this mate tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand owl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 47 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Good post. But why do you say it is clear Monk will stay? There must be a good chance Monk will be sacked in the next week or so? just can't see him changing it mate. New manager would have 5 weeks to assess the squad, make signings and get his approach across to the players. Its just not enough time. I could be wrong but if DC had enough of monk he would've pulled the trigger straight after boro game. Monk is cheap and up for the challenge. That may well be enough for DC for the time being. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 minute ago, dan1980 said: I dont know anything about stuff like this mate tbh For my twopence I think the Club probably did discuss the stadium transaction with the EFL but not necessarily the accounting period it would be allocated to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobayashi Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, mkowl said: Going to be very interesting what the written reasons say. I still can't fathom how IF from an accounting and reporting perspective it is OK to have the sale in the 2017/18 accounts how an independent panel can argue differently for FFP purposes. The stadium valuation itself not an issue, the fair value adjustments not an issue. The date a transaction is recorded is not a balance of probability type call Presumably because the audit partner was sufficiently convinced by the evidence presented to him/her by the Directors of SWFC Re the timing of the transaction but the financial analyst employed by the EFL and the IDP were not. If it was the same evidence then that it is a matter of professional judgment so two opposing views can be understood but if it transpires that it is because the evidence provided was different and or incomplete then the relationship between the Directors and Auditor is in big trouble. If the accounts for 18/19 are not already signed then more trouble may be coming Chansiri‘s way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy logics Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 One man got us into this mess and we are relying on the same man to get us out of it!? It is unlikely DC is going anywhere so his only option is to change the way the club is run. Can he do it? Does he have the will or the ability? Personally I dont think so, a complete management restructure is needed quickly, a proper chairman, CEO, DOF etc. should be the first order of business. We can then look at recruiting the coaching and playing staff to do the business on the pitch. This needs to happen sharpish so we will soon see if he has learned his lesson and whether he can swallow his pride. Interesting times... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Fuzzy logics said: One man got us into this mess and we are relying on the same man to get us out of it!? It is unlikely DC is going anywhere so his only option is to change the way the club is run. Can he do it? Does he have the will or the ability? Personally I dont think so, a complete management restructure is needed quickly, a proper chairman, CEO, DOF etc. should be the first order of business. We can then look at recruiting the coaching and playing staff to do the business on the pitch. This needs to happen sharpish so we will soon see if he has learned his lesson and whether he can swallow his pride. Interesting times... This is where us fans need to get organised and sort out our priorities as fans! Can we get rid of Chansiri? Not unless one of us is a secret billionaire, so let's focus our efforts on what we can effect and put pressure on. Priority 1 should be to get rid of the advisors! Priority 2 some transparency on a clear plan forward. Priority 3 get rid of Monk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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