BREAKING NEWS - EFL VERDICT - 12 POINTS

[Bluesteel]

10 hours ago, Miffed said:

 

But people are claiming that now we have been charged with a points deduction for it, the stadium sale can magically now be included in this years accounts instead of being backdated. Meaning we cant fall foul when this years accounts are presented.

How does that work?

As mad as it sounds , I can only assume stadium sale is permitted so because they decided it couldn’t be backdated (whereas our accountants said it could) then it slots in somewhere new and hopefully gives us a clean bill now. We had also raised circa 10ml/11m of income via joao Hunt and Bruce this season.
 

So we are punished for 2018 in 2020/21.

 

The whole EFL is being ruined IMO. It’s ok to sell the stadium to ourselves on paper (supposedly not cheating), but not backdate (cheating), but the principle is the same. Its just semantics. Meanwhile the entire league is looking at sueing the pants of each other as a result of the rules a third of them won’t change to move with  the times. 

But the big question is, if we had planned to sell the stadium, why didn’t we actually do this in 2018?!

Edited August 1, 2020 by Bluesteel

[Sergeant Tibbs]

5 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Surely he would have done it straight after the final game of the season?

Monk's going nowhere 

And neither is the owner.

 

The next 3+ years will be tough, not for the faint hearted.  You’ll need a sister-site.

Call it Owlsmoan, summat like that.

[SiJ]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

WOW

Is that really so outrageous?

[Guest mkowl]

17 minutes ago, kobayashi said:

The accounts are the responsibility of the directors so not sure how the club could sue the auditor.

The  auditor, if he feels he was misled would surely resign rather than sue.

The Regulator would presumably only be interested if a mistake was egregious or if the auditor had somehow colluded with the directors to file incorrect accounts. 
Charlton Athletic may be thinking about the auditors insurers.

 

Let's see how it plays out 

 

I just think there are a few twists and turns to come. When it goes wrong there is plenty of finger pointing 

 

 

[myHero]

10 hours ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

HMRC for one....

Correct, but think about it. I excluded them for a reason.  He's declared a fictional profit ahead of time. 

 

That means he's paid too much tax and too soon. 

 

The HMRC are more interested in the likes of Mandaric and Redknap who make up elaborate schemes to avoid paying tax, not people with cuckoo schemes to pay too much tax too early.

 

No case to answer here. 

[Guest mkowl]

5 minutes ago, Bluesteel said:

 

But the big question is, if we had planned to sell the stadium, why didn’t we actually do this in 2018?!

 

This is called hindsight accounting 

 

Like all the self employed clients who contest their taxable profits were higher now they can get money from the Govt based on that figure

[Guest mkowl]

2 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

Correct, but think about it. I excluded them for a reason.  He's declared a fictional profit ahead of time. 

 

That means he's paid too much tax and too soon. 

 

The HMRC are more interested in the likes of Mandaric and Redknap who make up elaborate schemes to avoid paying tax, not people with cuckoo schemes to pay too much tax too early.

 

No case to answer here. 

 

We won't have paid tax on the sale 

[myHero]

7 minutes ago, Bluesteel said:

As mad as it sounds , I can only assume stadium sale is permitted so because they decided it couldn’t be backdated (whereas our accountants said it could) then it slots in somewhere new and hopefully gives us a clean bill now. We had also raised circa 10ml/11m of income via joao Hunt and Bruce this season.
 

So we are punished for 2018 in 2020/21.

 

The whole EFL is being ruined IMO. It’s ok to sell the stadium to ourselves on paper (supposedly not cheating), but not backdate (cheating), but the principle is the same. Its just semantics. Meanwhile the entire league is looking at sueing the pants of each other as a result of the rules a third of them won’t change to move with  the times. 

But the big question is, if we had planned to sell the stadium, why didn’t we actually do this in 2018?!

Because selling the stadium is the Nuclear option. People start thinking about what happened to Coventry and numerous other clubs when an owner sells the stadium to himself. 

 

It doesn't look good. 

 

The EFL rule book is a scam. Just like the referees rule book for that matter. 

[Bluesteel]

13 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

 

 

1 - Rules are set by the EFL at the start of the season (The EFL are the CLUBS themselves)

2 - All clubs agree to them and agree to abide by them

3 - We broke them

True. But for context into the mindset of some owners the original rules on this were made prior to their time. They have put motions to change them in the view that they want to compete with the parachute clubs whereas some clubs are happy just to be in the championship. So as the votes to change fail they have sought ways to work within the small print. We are not alone, Derby, Villa, Birmingham, QPR, Wolves  all frustrated by rules many clubs don’t want. 
 

By that I am not suggesting it’s ok to break the rules but I think the desperation for change is context. Not many clubs at the top of the league seem to be weighing in on this debate because another 5-8 clubs were under threat of deductions after the next set of accounts.

 

It has probably has started to show some kind of levelling of the playing field though as seen with Brentford and Preston doing well this season. Which I think is a good thing. But I think we will see more clubs docked points in due course because 39m really has been nothing in recent years for most clubs at the top end of the league and its only the teams at the bottom who have been keen to keep that amount in place. If the league becomes more about monitoring and points losses it is completely spoilt and it won’t be long before there is a tipping point and a handful of clubs show the EFL, Barnsley and co two fingers and set up PL2.

[Gerinako]

Further evidence Chansiri has run us like a dogs dinner

[Bluesteel]

4 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

Because selling the stadium is the Nuclear option. People start thinking about what happened to Coventry and numerous other clubs when an owner sells the stadium to himself. 

 

It doesn't look good. 

 

The EFL rule book is a scam. Just like the referees rule book for that matter. 

People can rightly be concerned but if it’s a paper exercise which sells something the owner owns to the owner it’s not as risky. Most people wanting to buy the club    would want the stadium re added.

 

Coventrys issue via Sisu was that they always rented the stadium off a third party and then I think wasps bought the place and Coventry were tenant. 

[myHero]

31 minutes ago, kobayashi said:

The accounts are the responsibility of the directors so not sure how the club could sue the auditor.

The  auditor, if he feels he was misled would surely resign rather than sue.

The Regulator would presumably only be interested if a mistake was egregious or if the auditor had somehow colluded with the directors to file incorrect accounts. 
Charlton Athletic may be thinking about the auditors insurers.

Charlton aren't a Shareholder or Creditor of Sheffield Wednesday. The Auditor has no liability to them surely?

 

Reminds me of the days we thought we'd escape relegation because of the Swindon Town fiasco. 

 

Charlton are poo out of luck. The only way they get to us is by leaning on the EFL to appeal. 

 

 

[Bluesteel]

Just now, Ozymandias Owl said:

Charlton aren't a Shareholder or Creditor of Sheffield Wednesday. The Auditor has no liability to them surely?

 

Reminds me of the days we thought we'd escape relegation because of the Swindon Town fiasco. 

 

Charlton are poo out of luck. The only way they get to us is by leaning on the EFL to appeal. 

 

 

The EFL usually appeal everything so that other clubs can’t come after them. So I fully expect both swfc and EFL to appeal. Or at least the latter.

 

But an appeal, I understand, is more about whether due process is correct. Rather than the judgement of the panel. Like a judicial review. But I could be wrong 

 

 

[myHero]

7 minutes ago, mkowl said:

 

We won't have paid tax on the sale 

Corporation tax??

Stamp Duty?

Even if no Corporation tax was paid in the year, he's reduced losses which can be used in future years. 

 

We've definitely not avoided tax. 

 

[Baldrick]

At least we can ressurect the Great Escape song, one of my favourites

 

Every cloud 

[kevtheowl]

10 hours ago, SwellOwl said:

Where’s @kevtheowl anyone? 

Always here !! UTO 

Edited August 1, 2020 by kevtheowl

[FinnishOwl]

So it's potentially one lost season or several more, depending on how the club reacts on and off the pitch.

 

Let's dig something positive out of this mess.

1) The decision is here, no more waiting. Now we basically know that we will not attract any high-profile players -- unless they get a lucrative contract with a relegation release clause. This means our recruitment strategy must rely on players who are willing to work for a long-term solution.

2) Chansiri must do something. He cannot hide behind the process anymore. I don't care what it is, I'll judge it when I see it.

3) This should unite the supporters. We are all in the same mess. Well, except for those with the 10-year season tickets, sorry.

[Captain Scarlett]

33 minutes ago, torryowl said:

i dont know who these advisors are the chansiri listens to but i wish they'd feck off coz they aint giving good advice .

 

 

Paxo (aka. Doyen)

[myHero]

4 minutes ago, Bluesteel said:

People can rightly be concerned but if it’s a paper exercise which sells something the owner owns to the owner it’s not as risky. Most people wanting to buy the club    would want the stadium re added.

 

Coventrys issue via Sisu was that they always rented the stadium off a third party and then I think wasps bought the place and Coventry were tenant. 

That's why I'm not worried about Chansiri, he's only done it, and back dated it, as a consequence of the mess we were in, because of the EFL rules and the actions of other clubs, namely Derby.

[Bluesteel]

14 minutes ago, mkowl said:

 

This is called hindsight accounting 

 

Like all the self employed clients who contest their taxable profits were higher now they can get money from the Govt based on that figure

My interpretation of this in simple terms was

 

1. rules permit infrastructure sale. With no further detail on account parameters but need for fair value 

 

2. we then make use of this. Claiming the rules didn’t prevent us so what rule have we broken. Valuation signed off and hindsight accounting presumably permissible otherwise wouldn’t be signed off by chartered accountant.

 

On that basis I thought we might have got away with it and forced a change to the rules. So it will be interesting to see what the judgement actually says.