The enigma that is Jordan Rhodes

[pazowl55]

22 minutes ago, Emilianenko said:

No he isn't.

So he is not better at holding up the ball and defensive headers then?.

[@owlstalk]

14 minutes ago, Rogers said:

 

What isn't there to believe that defenders have worked him out; the player is slow, has no tricks, and little movement.  What's farcical about the comment.  Once a goal scorer, and now he's pretty useless. 

 

Are you going to break down and analyse (not investigate) every comment in the fear that they may become 'a phrase that people repeat and become the norm'.

 

Check yourself mate, you sound a bit mental. 

 

 

 

 

'They've worked him out' tho....

Every single defender know in advance how to defend against Jordan Rhodes?

They've all 'worked him out'?

 

 

[Rogers]

19 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

'They've worked him out' tho....

Every single defender know in advance how to defend against Jordan Rhodes?

They've all 'worked him out'?

 

 

Looks that way, his record speaks for itself.  He doesn't score. Apart from the enigma that was Forest away. 

 

 

Anyway, good luck to him.  Let's see how he performs in the remaining games.  I'll donate £50 to Guide Dogs for the Blind if he scores more than 2 goals. Maybe, they will provide a dog for the defenders. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Rogers

[@owlstalk]

 

That’s the spirit 

[Guest]

On 29/06/2020 at 23:39, Emilianenko said:

I will try but I doubt you will understand.

1.First of all when he plays on the shoulder of the last defender he allows us to play further up the pitch. Although he doesn't have great pace he does have great movement which scares defenders.

This helps stretch teams and allows our midfielders and wingbacks to get higher up the pitch and press and play. He did this very well against Brentford ( but he wasn't involved in either goal)

2. He also has great movement in and around the box, an example of this on Sunday was when he had a shot blocked at the near post. If Murphy had played the ball earlier and not took an extra touch with his left foot he may have scored rather than run out of room for the shot. He also works hard for the team. This goes unnoticed largely because he doesn't win a lot of tackles. What he does do though is stops the early pass from defenders by closing them down enough to stall. It isn't getting tight but blocking the pass.( this is known in the game as screening) It allows the defence to get back in shape.

3. He was also dropping deeper and holding the ball up well on Sunday, he just keeps it simple neat and tidy which again goes unnoticed.He does this a lot which allows us to build.

4. He was often doubling up on players with Lee and Luongo when pressing, again this goes unnoticed.

5. Their was a lot of rotation with him and Wickham. one dropping deep (into the hole) while the other plays off the shoulder. This makes us less predictable when they do this and makes defenders uncertain.

6. He is also very good defensively from set pieces. Wins a lot of near post headers from the Alan Shearer position.

  You're welcome.

 

 

Yes you are clearly operating at too high of a tactical level for us normals to understand, thanks for trying your best anyway, I can only assume it's so difficult for you to convey your ideas to someone like me, thats why your explanations seemed to me to be clutching at straws for a clearly below par player who's shown a very slight improvement in general play from being completely ineffective for 3 and a half years.

 

1. He doesn't allow us to play further up the pitch at all, he has no pace, no defence is scared of him having the ball behind them 50, 40, 30 (maybe even less) yards from goal, he doesn't have the pace to get a one on one, the shooting ability from range to score from 20-25 yards, the vision or technical ability to pick out a pass to send someone else through on goal. What happens when he gets behind defences playing a high line is he has to turn back and pass it to the centre mids or wing backs.

2. He either has great movement and is an awful finisher or terrible movement, look at his goal record since leaving Blackburn, 96 league appearences, 20 goals. I saw him a good few times against Bristol completely static in the middle where he's never going to beat a centreback to a ball, he used to have very good movement, but it's 4 and a half years since he's been that player. This goes back to point number 1. where defences also aren't scared of him because he doesn't score anymore.

3. He has shown an improvement on how he used to be, it is still nowhere near good enough and a very feeble amount of contributions for a starting Championship striker that doesn't score.

4. I have noticed it, again a few times a match, an improvement, but the majority of strikers do, he's not particularly good at this that I would say it's a string to his bow.

5. Ok, I think all our strikers and the majority of strike partnerships around the world do this, every player has to contribute more these days, look at Hooper for an excellent example, not many pure finishers about anymore, you have Haaland and Lewandowski who are talked of liked that but they contribute a lot more in general play and are much more comfortable in possession than the Linekers and Inzaghis of the past.

6. Every single player who stands at the near post at corners clears a lot of headers away, do you blame Bannan (or Darren Potter) when he hits the first man or applaud the opposition for a fine piece of defending?

Almost any player who is tall enough can do that job to Rhodes's level, I wouldn't feel to worried about losing him from there.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Guest

[Emilianenko]

25 minutes ago, fingyfop said:

 

Yes you are clearly operating at too high of a tactical level for us normals to understand, thanks for trying your best anyway, I can only assume it's so difficult for you to convey your ideas to someone like me, thats why your explanations seemed to me to be clutching at straws for a clearly below par player who's shown a very slight improvement in general play from being completely ineffective for 3 and a half years.

 

1. He doesn't allow us to play further up the pitch at all, he has no pace, no defence is scared of him having the ball behind them 50, 40, 30 (maybe even less) yards from goal, he doesn't have the pace to get a one on one, the shooting ability from range to score from 20-25 yards, the vision or technical ability to pick out a pass to send someone else through on goal. What happens when he gets behind defences playing a high line is he has to turn back and pass it to the centre mids or wing backs.

2. He either has great movement and is an awful finisher or terrible movement, look at his goal record since leaving Blackburn, 96 league appearences, 20 goals. I saw him a good few times against Bristol completely static in the middle where he's never going to beat a centreback to a ball, he used to have very good movement, but it's 4 and a half years since he's been that player. This goes back to point number 1. where defences also aren't scared of him because he doesn't score anymore.

3. He has shown an improvement on how he used to be, it is still nowhere near good enough and a very feeble amount of contributions for a starting Championship striker that doesn't score.

4. I have noticed it, again a few times a match, an improvement, but the majority of strikers do, he's not particularly good at this that I would say it's a string to his bow.

5. Ok, I think all our strikers and the majority of strike partnerships around the world do this, every player has to contribute more these days, look at Hooper for an excellent example, not many pure finishers about anymore, you have Haaland and Lewandowski who are talked of liked that but they contribute a lot more in general play and are much more comfortable in possession than the Linekers and Inzaghis of the past.

6. Every single player who stands at the near post at corners clears a lot of headers away, do you blame Bannan (or Darren Potter) when he hits the first man or applaud the opposition for a fine piece of defending?

Almost any player who is tall enough can do that job to Rhodes's level, I wouldn't feel to worried about losing him from there.

Why were we so poor second half?

Not gonna explain it to you. Check my other posts to find out why.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Emilianenko said:

Why were we so poor second half?

Not gonna explain it to you. Check my other posts to find out why.

 

You're such a football genius you put the 2nd half display to Rhodes going off? Haha seriously, pull the other one mate, if you actually believe that just tell me and I'll stop this debate cause there's no point.

Is this your first season?

 

If you had watched the game without your doe eyes for Jordan you'd have been able to clearly see we dropped off in the 2nd half due to players fitness dropping (noticeably slower in the 2nd half, especially as it went on), and West Brom were simply too good when we had to try and chase the game, especially with only 1 proper centreback, and open ourselves up a bit.

[pazowl55]

What I will say is that we were playing well first half and needed to chase the game in the second half and Monk didnt think Rhodes could do it. 

 

Admittedly Da Cruz didnt work either.

 

Unless Rhodes come off for fitness reasons.

[Emilianenko]

1 hour ago, fingyfop said:

 

You're such a football genius you put the 2nd half display to Rhodes going off? Haha seriously, pull the other one mate, if you actually believe that just tell me and I'll stop this debate cause there's no point.

Is this your first season?

 

If you had watched the game without your doe eyes for Jordan you'd have been able to clearly see we dropped off in the 2nd half due to players fitness dropping (noticeably slower in the 2nd half, especially as it went on), and West Brom were simply too good when we had to try and chase the game, especially with only 1 proper centreback, and open ourselves up a bit.

Or that nobody was running in behind them or running the channels. This allowed them to play 20 yards further up the pitch and squeeze the life out of us. Now stop being angry.

[bedfordowl]

On 30/06/2020 at 00:57, Rogers said:

Looks that way, his record speaks for itself.  He doesn't score. Apart from the enigma that was Forest away. 

 

 

Anyway, good luck to him.  Let's see how he performs in the remaining games.  I'll donate £50 to Guide Dogs for the Blind if he scores more than 2 goals. Maybe, they will provide a dog for the defenders. 

Glad I logged on now tonight

[legendaryswan]

Well it cant be hillsboro because hes scored 4 here in a single game,so it must be something about either his game or the way hes asked to play,Id say its him,maybe hes just lost that hungry streak,feels settled in life,has all he needs and proved he can get goals and somewhere along the way that desire left him.When he just failed to get on the end of that cross last night,i just couldnt help thinking,the Rhodes that got 4 goals that day here,hed have got on the end of that and tucked it away....................

[Bannofan]

On 29/06/2020 at 21:11, Dexter Morgan said:

The fact that people constantly back Donkey Dave but won’t give Rhodes the time of day makes my head bleed 

 

whoaaa..just had to stop reading here..

 

Are you serious?  3 and half years of being utterly hopeless bar about 2 games and people still want to give Rhodes a chance,  make excuses for him and generally blame everyone including the lad that sells the 50/50  ht tickets for him being shocking. 

 

Nuhui however,  every manager he has played under here have rated him, opposition managers praise him, his team mates love him and he has done more for this club than Rhodes will ever do. ..the fans still slate him because he doesn't score 30 goals a season. 

[Dexter Morgan]

55 minutes ago, Bannofan said:

 

whoaaa..just had to stop reading here..

 

Are you serious?  3 and half years of being utterly hopeless bar about 2 games and people still want to give Rhodes a chance,  make excuses for him and generally blame everyone including the lad that sells the 50/50  ht tickets for him being shocking. 

 

Nuhui however,  every manager he has played under here have rated him, opposition managers praise him, his team mates love him and he has done more for this club than Rhodes will ever do. ..the fans still slate him because he doesn't score 30 goals a season. 

I slate him because he’s poo, watch how his career goes when he’s fizzed off, nose dive, 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Dexter Morgan said:

I slate him because he’s poo, watch how his career goes when he’s fizzed off, nose dive, 

 

What level of team do you think Rhodes will sign for?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Emilianenko said:

Or that nobody was running in behind them or running the channels. This allowed them to play 20 yards further up the pitch and squeeze the life out of us. Now stop being angry.

 

I really can't believe anyone who has played or watched football could think one paced Rhodes allows us to play further up the pitch, stop imaginining him as the player he was at Blackburn and Huddersfield, he's a shadow of that player and every opposition knows it.

[Guest]

 

11 hours ago, Emilianenko said:

Or that nobody was running in behind them or running the channels. This allowed them to play 20 yards further up the pitch and squeeze the life out of us. Now stop being angry.

 

Also here's the undeniable proof, so you can forget this argument and move on to your next straw to clutch, please view the below touch maps.

 

Don' you think its strange how Rhodes who supposedly runs the channels and allows us to play further up the pitch, actually has the same amount of touches in each half, and only a few out wide, and Da Cruz is actually further forward and in the channels more often?

 

Rhodes:

 

 

 

 

Da Cruz: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Emilianenko said:

Or that nobody was running in behind them or running the channels. This allowed them to play 20 yards further up the pitch and squeeze the life out of us. Now stop being angry.

 

For completeness since the season restarted, Rhodes vs Cruz touch maps for all games.

 

Nottingham Forest: Rhodes off on 68 Minutes, Da Cruz on at 74 minutes. This one really is embarassing to look at for a striker being paid upwards of 40 grand a week, who played was on the pitch for 4 times longer than a young loanee who's never played in this country before.

 

 

 

 

Bristol City: Rhodes off for Da Cruz at 61mins, so Rhodes played twice a long here. If you look at Rhodes' heat map it might not be immediately clear, but we're shooting from right to left in these ones.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Guest

[@owlstalk]

Don’t you have to be given the ball to get a touch and a place on the heat map?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Don’t you have to be given the ball to get a touch and a place on the heat map?

 

Don't you have to get yourself in a position to get the ball and aren't they both largely playing with the same set of players?

That's my point, Rhodes contributes so little for a striker who doesn't score.

Apparently he's not playing the role of a goalscorer now, which is fine, but he doesn't actually contribute anything that pretty much any other body we stuck up there couldn't do.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Guest

[Dexter Morgan]

1 hour ago, fingyfop said:

 

What level of team do you think Rhodes will sign for?

Another championship team where he will score goals, it’s the Wednesday way, I’ve seen no end of strikers do nothing and be sold only to start banging them in for someone else