Where did it all go wrong for George Hirst at Sheffield Wednesday?

[camffiti]

He was never going to be given a sustained chance here anyway 

 

[soldierboyblue]

9 minutes ago, camffiti said:

He was never going to be given a sustained chance here anyway 

 

Totally disagree - if he had signed the contract he would have been in and playing of that I don't think there is a doubt.

[Owls-Fan]

Has anyone made the comment that we wouldn’t be talking about him if his name wasn’t Hirst yet?

 

You know, because in the last 20 years we have lots of young players who play in all England youth teams, get watched by Man Utd and Man City and move on to a premier league club scoring goals in their reserve team and being highly thought of for the future. 

[soldierboyblue]

4 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said:

Has anyone made the comment that we wouldn’t be talking about him if his name wasn’t Hirst yet?

 

You know, because in the last 20 years we have lots of young players who play in all England youth teams, get watched by Man Utd and Man City and move on to a premier league club scoring goals in their reserve team and being highly thought of for the future. 

Which one of our youngsters has had the potential he has though? None in the past 20 years I can remember 

[malek]

1 hour ago, Bluesteel said:

Hirst reportedly wanted premier league money. We said we could not pay him money like 10k a week for example and make him wealthier than say Liam Palmer at that stage in his career given he hasn’t played first team football bar the odd sub. So we offered him what was in line at Swfc ie the best in his peer group.

 

Club went out with an information how we offered him highest wages in his age group ? Why not saying he wanted 10 k per week and we thought it was too much for player with so little experience and getting public on  Chansiri's side ?!

 

Then again, why Hirst wouldn't be on as much money as "let's say" Liam Palmer. We turned down 2m for Hirst before he started first team game, and there is 99.9% chance that we will never get offered anywhere near as much for Liam Palmer. It is called investment, we pay now to get lot more in the future (not that Chansiri couldn't afford him).

 

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That wasn’t enough so he wouldn’t sign. I guess both parties are at fault following the Leicester bid. But to make the move abroad, was a low blow given that he could’ve just gone to Leicester, got his money and had the club compensated.

 

Don't forget that Chansiri (or Sheffield Wednesday not sure how to call it) blatantly blackmailed him to sign new deal on club's terms or he won't be permitted to play for U-23's and train at the club. Everything considered I don't blame him for wanting to get even and probably get himself bit better terms in return.

 

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The younger players didn’t get a game under Carlos but other than that spell we have brought a fair few young players through over the years. How many have gone on to better things though? Hirst would have got a game under Luhukay 

 

And year after Luhukay left we found ourselves as a club that didn't give single minute of first team football to anyone who came through are academy and is younger then 23 (and all that after winning both U-18 and u-23 leagues.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

4 minutes ago, malek said:

 

Club went out with an information how we offered him highest wages in his age group ? Why not saying he wanted 10 k per week and we thought it was too much for player with so little experience and getting public on  Chansiri's side ?!

 

Then again, why Hirst wouldn't be on as much money as "let's say" Liam Palmer. We turned down 2m for Hirst before he started first team game, and there is 99.9% chance that we will never get offered anywhere near as much for Liam Palmer. It is called investment, we pay now to get lot more in the future (not that Chansiri couldn't afford him).

 

 

Don't forget that Chansiri (or Sheffield Wednesday not sure how to call it) blatantly blackmailed him to sign new deal on club's terms or he won't be permitted to play for U-23's and train at the club. Everything considered I don't blame him for wanting to get even and probably get himself bit better terms in return.

 

 

And year after Luhukay left we found ourselves as a club that didn't give single minute of first team football to anyone who came through are academy and is younger then 23 (and all that after winning both U-18 and u-23 leagues.

10k a week is probably the going rate for a player with his pedigree compared to premier league academies. We should have pushed the boat out more I think when you consider that Winnall, Rhodes, Abdi etc were on 2-4 times that and offered nothing anyway. No point comparing him to the likes of Liam Palmer

 

Sometimes you need a bit of luck to get game time. He was rightly behind FF, Hooper, Fletcher and Rhodes (at the time of signing) in the queue given their experience and quality. The first team is about winning games first and foremost. Given the first 3 were injured and the latter badly out of form in 2017-18, plus Nuhui and Joao starting most games it’s a fair assumption he’d have been given a chance at that time. When the first team are fully fit though none of the youngsters were good enough as has been proven by the fact that none have gone on to do anything either here or otherwise. Hirst was our best youngster so he may have been the one to make the grade but we’ll never know. 

[Owls-Fan]

12 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

Which one of our youngsters has had the potential he has though? None in the past 20 years I can remember 

Yes I was being sarcastic. Some people used to regularly say that we wouldn’t be talking about Hirst if he was another young player. Which I always said was rubbish, as we don’t have players with the same potential. 

[soldierboyblue]

11 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said:

Yes I was being sarcastic. Some people used to regularly say that we wouldn’t be talking about Hirst if he was another young player. Which I always said was rubbish, as we don’t have players with the same potential. 

I’d give you an agree but can’t 

[Guest]

He may or may not have asked for £10K a week, that we can't be sure of.

 

What I can't believe is that people on here are advocating that we should have given him £10K a week to keep him. 

£10K a week for a player that has still not played a first team game at any decent level in the two years since leaving us. How can you justify that?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, malek said:

 

 

 

Don't forget that Chansiri (or Sheffield Wednesday not sure how to call it) blatantly blackmailed him to sign new deal on club's terms or he won't be permitted to play for U-23's and train at the club. Everything considered I don't blame him for wanting to get even and probably get himself bit better terms in return.

 

Why let someone play for the u23’s who’s representatives had made it abundantly clear he was moving on in a deal that would see the club get sweet FA

 

Chansiri made one mistake , not selling him to Leicester first time no questions asked

[Bluesteel]

51 minutes ago, malek said:

 

Club went out with an information how we offered him highest wages in his age group ? Why not saying he wanted 10 k per week and we thought it was too much for player with so little experience and getting public on  Chansiri's side ?!

 

Then again, why Hirst wouldn't be on as much money as "let's say" Liam Palmer. We turned down 2m for Hirst before he started first team game, and there is 99.9% chance that we will never get offered anywhere near as much for Liam Palmer. It is called investment, we pay now to get lot more in the future (not that Chansiri couldn't afford him).

 

 

Don't forget that Chansiri (or Sheffield Wednesday not sure how to call it) blatantly blackmailed him to sign new deal on club's terms or he won't be permitted to play for U-23's and train at the club. Everything considered I don't blame him for wanting to get even and probably get himself bit better terms in return.

 

 

And year after Luhukay left we found ourselves as a club that didn't give single minute of first team football to anyone who came through are academy and is younger then 23 (and all that after winning both U-18 and u-23 leagues.

The club said they would make him the highest paid player in his age group but that he wanted more than some first team players. That was in the statement about it. See below 

 

https://www.swfc.co.uk/news/2017/december/ask-the-chairman---part-13/

 

As I said I think there were mistakes and poor behaviour on both sides after the refusal of a contract and rejection of Leicester’s bid. I think we should’ve played him to increase compensation fees but bridges were being burnt here. This wasn’t blackmail it was a massive F you to the people trying to dictate matters and by this stage it was clear he was off.

 

I think the final point is also untrue given that we brought in Urhoghide and Hunt at 19 and put another couple on the bench with Penny and Kirby to return from useful loan spells and Cameron Dawson/Joe Wildsmith also favoured. Had Hirst stayed and taken his chance under Luhukay he would have had the chance to move at some point and would have had more senior football than he does now.

 

The supposition that there was no route to playing when the son of a club Iegend is clamoured for and there was no choice but to move to a co-owned club in Belgium is ridiculous really.

 

 

[thewookieisdown]

58 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

10k a week is probably the going rate for a player with his pedigree compared to premier league academies. We should have pushed the boat out more I think when you consider that Winnall, Rhodes, Abdi etc were on 2-4 times that and offered nothing anyway. No point comparing him to the likes of Liam Palmer

 

Sometimes you need a bit of luck to get game time. He was rightly behind FF, Hooper, Fletcher and Rhodes (at the time of signing) in the queue given their experience and quality. The first team is about winning games first and foremost. Given the first 3 were injured and the latter badly out of form in 2017-18, plus Nuhui and Joao starting most games it’s a fair assumption he’d have been given a chance at that time. When the first team are fully fit though none of the youngsters were good enough as has been proven by the fact that none have gone on to do anything either here or otherwise. Hirst was our best youngster so he may have been the one to make the grade but we’ll never know. 

It might have been the going rate but not one it was sensible for us to match, when on the evidence he was some way off being ready for top end championship football.

 

There's a parallel here. We don't have top level talent at first team level. We can't afford it. It's reasonable then to think that if Hirst was near top level for his age he's not going to be playing for us. There was a lot of talk about tying him down to a longer term contract, but a club like Leicester has way deeper pockets than us, and it's senseless to get into an auction. 

 

What was needed was a strategy to realise the asset. Instead, we had petulance.

[adelphi1867]

Now Leicester city are pushing to join the 'Elite' top 6, does any one think he will get a regular place there, bearing in mind Leicester MAY go down the foreign route for the forwards?.

Still he is already a millionaire and that is all that matters.

[dewsburyowl58]

18 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

Now Leicester city are pushing to join the 'Elite' top 6, does any one think he will get a regular place there, bearing in mind Leicester MAY go down the foreign route for the forwards?.

Still he is already a millionaire and that is all that matters.

Of course the intention is to play him in the first team , it’s up to George to prove he’s good enough . All I know is he supports Wednesday , chose Wednesday, his Dad was the best striker ever to play for us that I’ve seen , so the potential was there ,picked for England regular , scored goals for fun . Let’s see if he emulates the other Wednesday fan  at Leicester ,I really hope he does . 

[camffiti]

2 hours ago, soldierboyblue said:

Totally disagree - if he had signed the contract he would have been in and playing of that I don't think there is a doubt.

 

Maybe, but this club, from top to bottom, doesn't have a culture of giving youth a chance 

[bladeshater]

1 hour ago, folger said:

Like all of our younger players he's has been criminally mismanaged and his biggest mistake was joining our academy instead of Man city's or the pigs. 

I agree his 20 appearances for Leicester proves it

[bladeshater]

5 minutes ago, camffiti said:

 

Maybe, but this club, from top to bottom, doesn't have a culture of giving youth a chance 

Which of these players we have not given a chance to have gone on to play at an higher level.

And don't say vardy it's been done to death

[Bluesteel]

1 minute ago, camffiti said:

 

Maybe, but this club, from top to bottom, doesn't have a culture of giving youth a chance 

 

Apart from the multiple times when it has? Urhoghide, Hunt, Stobbs, Clare, Penney, Dawson, Kirby, Wildsmith, Hirst, O’Grady, Thorniley, Preston all got game time in recent seasons. I think the problem is we are either too close to the bottom of the league or on a rare occasion pushing for promotion and it’s not really a learning environment in that kind of pressure. 
 

If we did end up in league one i wonder how many would be in our first team. Ipswich seem to be bringing a few through as do Sunderland 

[unkastav]

I recall walking past swfc entrance after beating toytown at xmas, george came past and a few kids ran up to him for autographs etc.... said to my daughter leave it, we’ll get a photo with the bloke who’s done it already.... so glad we got a photo with THE hirsty

[handworth52]

he must be on good money at Leicester as he owns a posh apartment up ranmoor in same building as 4 pig players . he is hardly cutting it at u23 level for Leicester . its called living in daddies footsteps except he is no daddy more like a spoilt little girl who will be playing for matlock in 2 years.