What stopped us?

[Whatahoot]

This is an interesting topic when you look back over the era's. There is nothing written on this, its just one's own opinion as to what has caused our failure to rise above average as a club.. IMO over the war years there was other things taking precedence and rightly so, but following the  50/60's, Wednesday had a very good following and a half decent side, especially in the first half of the 60's. We never were a fashionable club like Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea or Everton and Man Utd. We were very similar in status to Man City, Aston Villa,Newcastle, Sunderland etc.When you look at our peer group you see that Newcastle,Sunderland,Middlesborough, Leeds, Derby,Bolton, Blackburn,Preston, Wolverhampton etc, were all one club towns/cities and therefore had decent gates bringing in money. None of them spent much on their grounds and concentrated on their team quality. The fashionable clubs had always been better supported than us, wealthy backers and had more money to spend on their teams Liverpool really came as a force via wealth in the background too and of course their European success has enforced their stay at the top.

So where did all that leave us and Sheff Utd ? We had no wealthy backers and both clubs were well prepared to sell their best asset easily to raise income to even compete. Both Sheffield clubs were said to need a crowd of 27000+ each home game and indeed as an average we did that and a little better at times. Certainly Wednesday board and chairman were not ambitious people and very cautious, being advised by Mr Eric Taylor, who did very much favour building up the stadium as a way of earning regular income from FA cup semi's etc. We sold players of the calibre of Quixall,Kay,Smith (Wilf), Eustace,McCalliog, Springett etc just to cash in and balance the books. Utd did a similar thing with some of their top players of the day Jones, Birchenall, Curry (eventually). Sheffielders seem to be very conservative, politics apart and cautious too with their brass.

This lack of investment led to the famine years and Wednesday were never able to attract either investment or good sponsorship deals. Here the "two club city" did'nt help our or Utd's cause, as sponsors would not divide loyalties by sponsoring only one of the Sheffield Clubs. Steel wealth was declining in the city and many companies either downsized, moved away or closed, leaving unemployment as a major obstacle to our progress. Until Big Jack pulled us out of the mire with little to spend over his tenure (Curran apart)

We then had the 90's with partial success under Wilkinson, Ron Atkinson and Cheeky Trev, with Dave Richards splashing the banks cash. Those years were not really sustainable due to finance reasons. Even when we played in the League Cup Final v Man Utd we had to hunt around for a one off sponsor (Asda) Finance has never been a Wednesday strongpoint, either bringing it in or sorted it out properly.

The Richard years although enjoyed by Wednesdayites at the time, became a big ball and chain around our necks, from which we were lucky to escape.

 

We have had our Big Black Clouds too, which cost us dear in many ways, The Bribe Scandal and the Liverpool v Forest semi final. Both major PR ngatives for the club and worse for the Liverpool families. The saga has dragged on for 25 years and still causes us pain. And to a lesser extent the ground flood was a PR nightmare too, for a once proud ground.

 

Sheffield Council provides no help whatsoever to either club, but are happy to bask in the sunshine when a little sporting  glory comes the City's way. They should be ashamed in the Town Hall.

 

So we sit today, still waiting and hoping for the glory years to return and as every year ticks by, it becomes more frustrating. But so too do Derby, Bolton,Blackburn, Sunderland,Preston, fans, even though some of these teams have had a little taster of success in between and Wolves will have theirs next year. It has always been a frustrating thing to be a Wednesdayite, but in my lifetime at least I have lived some of those glories (66 Cup Final, World Cup matches at Hillsborough, European Fairs Cup games, League cup win, Arsenal Finals, Sheff Utd semi, play off finals and wins and a loss) Its the younger under 20 age group of Wednesdayites I feel really sorry for.

[lanzaroteowl]

What stopped us

 

Dave Richards

[Nero]

I dont think ive ever read as much ill informed moaning bullocks on Owlstalk as the first page of this thread.

The OP is an open goal for opinionated, fact shy winkkers who want simple answers to complex questions.

But hey, its all about opinions.

[Daavies;]

24 minutes ago, hasthagotanycheese said:

Whether we like it or not, Sheffield is very much a second class city. We are held back by our inability to elect anybody else but Labour MP's. If the city was politically more competitive then the other parties would try harder to woo us with big projects and spending promise's but because the Left Wing party is such a shoe in round here then they dont bother as it would be wasted effort. In turn Labour dont need to bother with us as they are more or less guaranteed parlimentary seats round here. Until the political landscape changes then we will be a bit of a back water.

 

That said. Its also very much about money. Its no co-incidence that Liverpool's domination of the English game co-incided with the demise of the pools in favour of the National Lottery. They have not won the top flight since the Lotto's inception and have been replaced by clubs whose owners can fling big bucks at the clubs like Chelsea & Man City for example.

 

I would like to see the FA grow a pair of rounduns and make all English Football truly competitive with limits on  spending by division, squad sizes, ticket prices, limit shareholdings etc etc. Until that point then we will have to hope to get lucky in order to have our time in the sun again.

just put in a salary Cap. That will completely level the playing field in the premier league.

[hasthagotanycheese]

4 minutes ago, Daavies; said:

just put in a salary Cap. That will completely level the playing field in the premier league.

Unfortunately it wont happen, the FA dont have the nads to take on the big boys and kill the goose that laid the golden egg. While ever they have a business model that allows clubs to pay mostly foreign players hundreds of thousands of pounds a week then it aint going to change.

[owler66]

1889 when the pigs were formed a one club in Sheffield could compete with the big boys between the clubs there are 40,000 die hards. One club guaranteed that every week and more if successful would be up there with the big boys of today and would've been over the last century. 

But both of them as they are have no chance of competing and there's no chance of there ever being just one club in the city now. 

United should have been strangled at birth so us sheffielders could've had some success 

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

2 hours ago, torres said:

 

It's a joke pal.

 

 

Sheffield council-nuff said. Never moved on from the 1970’s. Why they fooked up seven stone development and every other element of strategic planning. Labour at it’s best 

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

2 hours ago, torres said:

As a city we always under achieve and it drives me insane.

 

It's either due to down right ineptitude or it's a total lack of ambition.

 

We are the home of football - do we promote that? Do we heck!!

Think if Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds had this honour  - we would be sick of it - yet hardly anyone knows about us is England

 

As a place i think we are happy to be ''ok''  - we are like a massive village rather than a city.

 

We get 50k between us at the minute as football clubs as we are both garbage - imagine if we were both good?

 

We need a huge shake up and have done for ages - the potential in Sheffield is huge - but will we ever reach our potential ...?????

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks - saved me writing the same thing

 

If we had half the entrepreneurial oompf that made the city lead the world in the 19th and early 20th century we wouldn’t be home to two of Englands most under achieving basket case clubs of the post war era. 

 

[Treborowl]

3 hours ago, Woodhouse_owl said:

crap city, not as desirable to live in like places such as london or manchester, harder to recruit players in the long run, end up getting 2nd tier choices or journeymen 

I'd rather be here than that London.

[Treborowl]

1 hour ago, lanzaroteowl said:

What stopped us

 

Dave Richards

I agree that was a factor

[owler66]

Can't believe people are blaming the council, Liverpool Council is one of the best

[Treborowl]

3 hours ago, steelcityowlsfan said:

We even mucked up the airport and then there was the DV stadium debacle.

and try dealing with the council!

 

ffs

[Guest mkowl]

1 hour ago, lanzaroteowl said:

What stopped us

 

Dave Richards

See in another universe where Dave Richards worked a plan for the benefit of SWFC not erm Dave Richards he could have been the one to really move the Club forward.

 

He didn't and no one was able to take on the role or had the money. 

 

 

[York_Owl]

3 hours ago, airborne_rat_of_s6 said:

Sheffield council-nuff said. Never moved on from the 1970’s. Why they fooked up seven stone development and every other element of strategic planning. Labour at it’s best 

Liverpool, both Manchester clubs and Arsenal have done ok and all in Labour strongholds.

[Whatahoot]

6 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

Liverpool, both Manchester clubs and Arsenal have done ok and all in Labour strongholds.

Yep, but strangely all 3 have massive backing from very wealthy people or organisation these days .! So don't need council help Liverpool and Man Utd had the backing of John Moores (Littlewood Pools) and Martin Edwards , both wealthy individuals.

[Inspector Lestrade]

6 hours ago, steveger said:

Sheffield is no longer the 4th or 5th largest city in England any longer, it's a myth, most cities have modernised, evolved and moved forward and expanded, Sheffield is held back by a socialist council with a runner up mentality, Sheffielder's are sadly used to seeing all the good things happen at other regions and cities whilst they moan on about trees

 

Liverpool and Manchester are both Socialist councils, not sure that politics defines a city could be more about the location and the geography of the city.  We need to get sexier and promote the city stop harping about the failures and dwell on the positives of the area.

[OWLERTON GHOST]

I love Sheffield it made me ..

I want to retire soon and move to Bradfield to end my days and be buried in Wisewood cemetery  (cremated first.. another thread covered here )

My wife however has other ideas 

"Yes my love whatever you say "..........

[steelcityowlsfan]

5 hours ago, Whatahoot said:

This is an interesting topic when you look back over the era's. There is nothing written on this, its just one's own opinion as to what has caused our failure to rise above average as a club.. IMO over the war years there was other things taking precedence and rightly so, but following the  50/60's, Wednesday had a very good following and a half decent side, especially in the first half of the 60's. We never were a fashionable club like Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea or Everton and Man Utd. We were very similar in status to Man City, Aston Villa,Newcastle, Sunderland etc.When you look at our peer group you see that Newcastle,Sunderland,Middlesborough, Leeds, Derby,Bolton, Blackburn,Preston, Wolverhampton etc, were all one club towns/cities and therefore had decent gates bringing in money. None of them spent much on their grounds and concentrated on their team quality. The fashionable clubs had always been better supported than us, wealthy backers and had more money to spend on their teams Liverpool really came as a force via wealth in the background too and of course their European success has enforced their stay at the top.

So where did all that leave us and Sheff Utd ? We had no wealthy backers and both clubs were well prepared to sell their best asset easily to raise income to even compete. Both Sheffield clubs were said to need a crowd of 27000+ each home game and indeed as an average we did that and a little better at times. Certainly Wednesday board and chairman were not ambitious people and very cautious, being advised by Mr Eric Taylor, who did very much favour building up the stadium as a way of earning regular income from FA cup semi's etc. We sold players of the calibre of Quixall,Kay,Smith (Wilf), Eustace,McCalliog, Springett etc just to cash in and balance the books. Utd did a similar thing with some of their top players of the day Jones, Birchenall, Curry (eventually). Sheffielders seem to be very conservative, politics apart and cautious too with their brass.

This lack of investment led to the famine years and Wednesday were never able to attract either investment or good sponsorship deals. Here the "two club city" did'nt help our or Utd's cause, as sponsors would not divide loyalties by sponsoring only one of the Sheffield Clubs. Steel wealth was declining in the city and many companies either downsized, moved away or closed, leaving unemployment as a major obstacle to our progress. Until Big Jack pulled us out of the mire with little to spend over his tenure (Curran apart)

We then had the 90's with partial success under Wilkinson, Ron Atkinson and Cheeky Trev, with Dave Richards splashing the banks cash. Those years were not really sustainable due to finance reasons. Even when we played in the League Cup Final v Man Utd we had to hunt around for a one off sponsor (Asda) Finance has never been a Wednesday strongpoint, either bringing it in or sorted it out properly.

The Richard years although enjoyed by Wednesdayites at the time, became a big ball and chain around our necks, from which we were lucky to escape.

 

We have had our Big Black Clouds too, which cost us dear in many ways, The Bribe Scandal and the Liverpool v Forest semi final. Both major PR ngatives for the club and worse for the Liverpool families. The saga has dragged on for 25 years and still causes us pain. And to a lesser extent the ground flood was a PR nightmare too, for a once proud ground.

 

Sheffield Council provides no help whatsoever to either club, but are happy to bask in the sunshine when a little sporting  glory comes the City's way. They should be ashamed in the Town Hall.

 

So we sit today, still waiting and hoping for the glory years to return and as every year ticks by, it becomes more frustrating. But so too do Derby, Bolton,Blackburn, Sunderland,Preston, fans, even though some of these teams have had a little taster of success in between and Wolves will have theirs next year. It has always been a frustrating thing to be a Wednesdayite, but in my lifetime at least I have lived some of those glories (66 Cup Final, World Cup matches at Hillsborough, European Fairs Cup games, League cup win, Arsenal Finals, Sheff Utd semi, play off finals and wins and a loss) Its the younger under 20 age group of Wednesdayites I feel really sorry for.

Great post. Enjoyed that. 

 

We showed some some ambition at times breaking records for players such as Tommy Craig?

 

But we always had a knack of letting a player go or selling them. There never seemed to be a vision to be one of the best teams in the land. We never seemed to sustain any momentum. 

[steelcityowlsfan]

5 hours ago, Peacenocchio said:

I dont think ive ever read as much ill informed moaning bullocks on Owlstalk as the first page of this thread.

The OP is an open goal for opinionated, fact shy winkkers who want simple answers to complex questions.

But hey, its all about opinions.

I suggest you read it again then because it was a genuine question/opinion on why we never pushed on and became a successful club that grew in size when similar sized cities like Liverpool and Manchester did. 

 

Asking the older fans is relevant because we had such opportunities to push on both in the early 60’s and early 90’s. 

 

If you think it’s a woe is me thread or aren’t we hard done too thread then I think you’ve had a whoosh moment. 

 

[Costello 77]

21 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

I love Sheffield it made me ..

I want to retire soon and move to Bradfield to end my days and be buried in Wisewood cemetery  (cremated first.. another thread covered here )

My wife however has other ideas 

"Yes my love whatever you say "..........

Go back to the proper thread and post your morbid ramblings there.

 

If you fail.... I'll see you on the far side...my precious angle.