Foresteri

[Guest wilyfox]

2 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

Cardiff in April was it?

 

Norwich (goal and 2 assists), Huddersfield at home (crucial 2nd goal and MOM performance), Wolves away (unplayable), Huddersfield away ( winning goal and MOM), Wigan (winning goal), Villa (winning goal).....

 

Off the top of my head. How many points is that? Far more the season before. You know no one else in our squad can compete with that.

 

Of course that doesn't mean we wouldn't have won those games if someone else was playing, but it's just speculation.

FF being a proven match winner, is not speculation.

 

When you have a player who you know can regularly win you games, you flipping keep em. Imagine how productive he'd be if we actually bought players to compliment him and got the best from him.

 

Well that won't happen because our recruitment is baffling. Players bought to fill a role, then we change system to make them redundant. Matias, Boyd, Abdi, McGugan...

 

FF is replaceable, like any other. At this level he's a difference-maker; but no-one in the second tier of English football is irreplaceable, no matter how fond of them you are. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

It’s nothing he hasn’t brought on himself by his own actions though is it. Fans like players who demonstrate some affinity to the shirt and who don’t cause dressing room issues. Forestieri appears to have bought into his own hype and it seems that he always puts his own interests above that of the team.

 

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I want to see players who pull on the Wednesday shirt to be proud of doing so and who see playing for us as being about more than just a pay day.

There only westwood our fans dont slate

[WorrallOwl17]

It's such a tough one. One side of the coin is that he's what Knockheart was to Brighton last the last two seasons, 10 workmanlike players, with bits of quality, then the real shining light that can turn a game on it's head, that's what Fessi is to us. On the flip side of the coin, no one is bigger than the club, no one should speak up about where he wants to play and doesn't want to play, and no one should be sulking around the pitch putting in little effort. Replacement flair players like Jota, Tomlin, Freeman, would be considerably less, or like Leeds have done with Alioski and Saiz, shop abroad. Because them two look like jewels already

[IstillhateSteveBould]

8 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

It’s nothing he hasn’t brought on himself by his own actions though is it. Fans like players who demonstrate some affinity to the shirt and who don’t cause dressing room issues. Forestieri appears to have bought into his own hype and it seems that he always puts his own interests above that of the team.

 

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I want to see players who pull on the Wednesday shirt to be proud of doing so and who see playing for us as being about more than just a pay day.

 

He's only human pal. And it's a job.

 

Not excusing what he did last year, but he apologised and for me, he's more than shown enough workrate on the pitch since.

[Bleeder]

5 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

Personally I think 442 is a big part of our problem and we won't ever see the true potential of FF (and others) playing that way.

 

Oh I'm no expert mate (unlike most on here!!) so not sure at all how we'd be best set up given the players we have. I do think that a player as good as FF could be very effective whatever if the team is more settled and a real familiarity develops between the players. Small margins and all that....

Edited August 23, 2017 by Bleeder

[stanningtonowl]

3 hours ago, WorrallOwl17 said:

..... Anyway, Abdi and Winnall were 10x worse, Winnall is a grafter and a runner, he's a Tevez minus the technique, never seen someone with such a bad first touch its awful

Reach?

[WorrallOwl17]

Just now, stanningtonowl said:

Reach?

Actually warming to him, no idea why

[ramone]

37 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

Your last line made some sense about a year or more ago. No longer.

 

Go back as recent to far back as you want and compare our results with him starting and without him starting. You will get a big shock when you realise how far you have to go back for him to have been worth a starting place on a regular basis.

 

Unless you are going back into 2016, Our results have been far better without him. Even prior there was nothing in it.

 

Here is every match against Championship oppos over the last 32 games:-

 

With FF

L L D D D W L L W W W D L W D W

 

Without FF

W D D W W W W W W D L L W D W W

 

Count back any number of games you chose and compare with and without. It hits you in the face.

 

 

 

Bang on the money.

 

Although you're debating it with one of the worst posters on here so you'll have a job getting any sense out of him. He supports Forestieri, not Wednesday. He think he's best utilised as a striker, he's wrong. He thinks we're a better team with him, he's wrong. 

[ramone]

16 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

Based on your previous, I'd be amazed if you've done this accurately and fairly. 

 

 

 

Brilliant. He;s given you facts and stats and you;re doubting them because, yet again, you've been made to look a complete fool

[Wednesday_Jack]

11 minutes ago, ramone said:

Stop re-writing history to suit your agenda against the manager.

 

Hes ruined himself by being a greedy, petulant spoilt little bobbar. 

 

Totally unprofessional performance from him last night. His best pal Winnall was just as bad. Refusing to pass to each other. They'd both be out of the door this morning if I was manager

 

Re-writing history??? oh my days!!! this forum gets worse and worse with argumentative people who simply write the biggest load of rubbish ever!!!

 

Carlos as an open rotation policy that as been in place for three years now. With the exception of Lees, Bannan, Westwood & Reach to a certain extent you never know who is going to be in the starting 11...this is a well know fact, not something made up....a fact. Not all players like to playing one week, out the next, upfront one week, on the left the next!!! Players are like most normal human beings...they like continuity and security, which in turn breads confidence and form. Carlos's management and ways done give most of the players that. A prime example of this is Winnall, he scored and had a good game against QPR rocks up on Wednesday night on the bench or not even in the squad (imagine how he felt/feels).

 

For me a manager/coach these days, it isn't just about getting results and playing good football, its also about man managing 30 plus individuals on a day to day. Call it petulant, call them egomaniacs, call the whole situation what you like...its a monster that has been created by football itself but no matter what you say, its part of modern day football.

 

Agree on your last point though...players should be professional they are playing an 11 man team sport and that's how it should remain, no work place is personal its work!!

 

[IstillhateSteveBould]

6 minutes ago, ramone said:

Bang on the money.

 

Although you're debating it with one of the worst posters on here so you'll have a job getting any sense out of him. He supports Forestieri, not Wednesday. He think he's best utilised as a striker, he's wrong. He thinks we're a better team with him, he's wrong. 

 

5 minutes ago, ramone said:

 

Brilliant. He;s given you facts and stats and you;re doubting them because, yet again, you've been made to look a complete fool

 

 

 

[ramone]

1 minute ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

 

 

 

Your response tells us all we need to know

 

Found out

[ramone]

10 minutes ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

 

Re-writing history??? oh my days!!! this forum gets worse and worse with argumentative people who simply write the biggest load of rubbish ever!!!

 

Carlos as an open rotation policy that as been in place for three years now. With the exception of Lees, Bannan, Westwood & Reach to a certain extent you never know who is going to be in the starting 11...this is a well know fact, not something made up....a fact. Not all players like to playing one week, out the next, upfront one week, on the left the next!!! Players are like most normal human beings...they like continuity and security, which in turn breads confidence and form. Carlos's management and ways done give most of the players that. A prime example of this is Winnall, he scored and had a good game against QPR rocks up on Wednesday night on the bench or not even in the squad (imagine how he felt/feels).

 

For me a manager/coach these days, it isn't just about getting results and playing good football, its also about man managing 30 plus individuals on a day to day. Call it petulant, call them egomaniacs, call the whole situation what you like...its a monster that has been created by football itself but no matter what you say, its part of modern day football.

 

Agree on your last point though...players should be professional they are playing an 11 man team sport and that's how it should remain, no work place is personal its work!!

 

I dont doubt the manager likes to change his line. But to suggest that FF's form has suffered is a bit daft as i'm sure he's had that all through his career.

 

What has effected him is the fact he's taken the hump against the club signing someone on more money than him and him refusing to play. Posting despicable photos on Instagram with him and a bike to undermine the club and then refusing to turn up to work. In any other line work thats gross misconduct and you'd be instantly dismissed. 

 

To then get a reprieve on that and turn in some (alot in my opinion) abject performances last season was the straw that broke the camels back for me. He should have ran himself to the ground last season to make up for that and he didnt.

 

To then start this season and give us the same problem is plain and simply inexcusable. Thats all brought on by himself and himself only. 

 

Not sure if you went last night but if you did, did you notice the friction between him and winnall? 

[IstillhateSteveBould]

3 minutes ago, ramone said:

Your response tells us all we need to know

 

Found out

 

You've shown time and time again you have an extremely poor understanding of the game, plus you seem a bit of a bellend, so I don't really pay any attention to you anymore.

[Ante's Bubbly]

I would sell this Foresteri like a shot. Maybe he will get bought by Aston Villa so that he can play with his brother John?

 

I would however keep Forestieri. I think DC and CC have handled him and his temperament very well, compared to the way that McGugan was handled for example. Forestieri has been allowed to play in various positions and roles, some of which he has shined in and some of which he has not. CC knows where Forestieri is best at playing and so do a good percentage of Owlstalkers and fans in the stands.

 

If Carlos tells DC that Forestieri is no longer wanted, then he will be out of the club, but not for the pot of money that some are expecting and to be replaced by which other exciting player that makes things happen from nothing? I suspect that Forestieri's view of life will change again before too long and be back to being the hero of the day for us, but I would not lose too much sleep over him going, just the timing is not right unless we have something special up our sleeves that can be made to happen before the deadline. 

[Holmowl]

47 minutes ago, DobbinTheDonkey said:

Does this research mean that game where we were struggling and he came off the bench and score the winner count against him?

 

Yes. It's starts v not playing at all.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

1 minute ago, Holmowl said:

 

Yes. It's starts v not playing at all.

 

Which of course doesn't offer a true representation 

[shezzas left peg]

15 hours ago, BarnsleyOwl96 said:

Where is ff best position ? He doesn't like it as much left yet isn't as effective up top ?

I agree, better in a front 3 as a wide man. Not really physically strong enough to play up top in this division against big strong CB's, especially if he's got either Rhodes, Hooper or Joao alongside him as big strong focal point is not their game really either which means we clear the ball and it comes straight back down our thoats. 

[NorthernOwl]

Just now, Muffinman said:

You are right. You are old fashioned and it shows. They are all mercenaries nowadays. deal with it, get over it and move on

 

I’m not talking about loyalty which I know is thing of the past.

 

But I think we can all see the difference in attitude between someone like Hutch and FF. Hutch clearly cares about the club, will play whenever he’s needed without any argument and always give 100%. He’ll happily put the good of the team above his himself. Does any of that apply to FF?

[Guest Ash76]

1 hour ago, rickygoo said:

 

If this is true they both need to go. 

 

Its not true