kingsidney Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 hours ago, FreshOwl said: an ok back-up, but not what we need going forward bannan needs a beast/enforcer alongside him Recent evidence would suggest not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 hours ago, hugeowl said: Wasn't to shabby for Burnley and am I correct on stating he has more promotions on his cv than another player at the club ? Don't you be coming in here with your facts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningaround Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 good point, speed of passing from the defence could be better to enable mids to push further on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 5 hours ago, IstillhateSteveBould said: That's exactly what I've said numerous times. I'm not bashing Jones. He's steady. I just disagree that he's in good form, I disagree that he's more effective than Hutch, and I'll be happy if he never partners Bannan in a 442 again. The Fulham coaches may disagree. However, it won't stop your outpourings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 hours ago, DobbinTheDonkey said: It could be the Bannan/Jones partnership but there could also be other elements at play. First of all Bannan has moved further up the pitch. He is a completely different player to the one that sits deep. Now this could be down to Jones but it is not the sole reason. At the moment we have a centre half that can pass the ball. Lees is terrible at passing, Loovens is ok most of the time but he has to move onto his right. It all slows the play down. Bannan can even go deeper, oo-er, pick the ball up, pop it off move 5-10 yards and have the ball back at his feet instantly. Players are moving into space, when he has popped the ball off. He then has an easier pass to someone. It hasn't been happening, so he was easier to close down. Pick the ball up, pop it off, spin into space, wait..., picked back up by the oppositon again, drop deeper, everyone else who was moving has now got into postion but getting picked up. Nothing on, hit a 40 yard ball, sometimes goes to target, who is stationary, slowing the game, or over hit/under hit the pass. As for the midfield 2, it all depends on who the opposition are and how they play. Bannan and Lee have shown a few times that when the bigger boys come and play and get in their face, they do not play well.(Hull/Leeds). When the pitch opens up and they are allowed to play a very good partnership. Jones and Bannan both good at reading the game, Jones is the most disciplined out of all our midfielders but players that carry the ball up close will breeze past them. Last season against Newcastle for some reason Shelvey played deep taking the ball off the centrehalves( Hutch style). Suited us down to the ground, at the beginning of the second half he moved up and ran at us, at a couple of decent chances. Yes Saturday both managed to channel the opposition into alleys. Given playing time Jones should get sharper and better When Loovens comes back into the side it would not surprise me to see Bannan start to drop deeper, unless the opposition sit back. Close him down quick will be the instructions, when he spins into the space the pass has to come straight away, otherwise it's a 'Tom Lees Lump' On another note Hutch played against Norwich before going off. Good points. But on the subject of Lee and Bannan struggling against big boys like Leeds and a Hull.... Hull was Hutch and Lee Leeds away was Hutch and Abdi Only Leeds at home was Lee and Bannan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobbinTheDonkey Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Im not on about the games with them as a pairing I'm on about in general. Against physically imposing players they have struggled no matter which position they individually played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Night-Owl Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 7 hours ago, DobbinTheDonkey said: It could be the Bannan/Jones partnership but there could also be other elements at play. First of all Bannan has moved further up the pitch. He is a completely different player to the one that sits deep. Now this could be down to Jones but it is not the sole reason. At the moment we have a centre half that can pass the ball. Lees is terrible at passing, Loovens is ok most of the time but he has to move onto his right. It all slows the play down. Bannan can even go deeper, oo-er, pick the ball up, pop it off move 5-10 yards and have the ball back at his feet instantly. Players are moving into space, when he has popped the ball off. He then has an easier pass to someone. It hasn't been happening, so he was easier to close down. Pick the ball up, pop it off, spin into space, wait..., picked back up by the oppositon again, drop deeper, everyone else who was moving has now got into postion but getting picked up. Nothing on, hit a 40 yard ball, sometimes goes to target, who is stationary, slowing the game, or over hit/under hit the pass. As for the midfield 2, it all depends on who the opposition are and how they play. Bannan and Lee have shown a few times that when the bigger boys come and play and get in their face, they do not play well.(Hull/Leeds). When the pitch opens up and they are allowed to play a very good partnership. Jones and Bannan both good at reading the game, Jones is the most disciplined out of all our midfielders but players that carry the ball up close will breeze past them. Last season against Newcastle for some reason Shelvey played deep taking the ball off the centrehalves( Hutch style). Suited us down to the ground, at the beginning of the second half he moved up and ran at us, at a couple of decent chances. Yes Saturday both managed to channel the opposition into alleys. Given playing time Jones should get sharper and better When Loovens comes back into the side it would not surprise me to see Bannan start to drop deeper, unless the opposition sit back. Close him down quick will be the instructions, when he spins into the space the pass has to come straight away, otherwise it's a 'Tom Lees Lump' On another note Hutch played against Norwich before going off. 7 hours ago, runningaround said: good point, speed of passing from the defence could be better to enable mids to push further on The biggest reason for the upturn in form of Jones and Bannan, is having a ball playing centre back. Pudil helps in this respect. But it's one of the main reasons why, some of us have been hoping we bring in a commanding ball playing centre back in. In the Bartley/Dean type of mould or someone similar to them. Hopefully Pudil can keep improving in that role or maybe the new fella Fred can do that role even better? If not, I still hope we can bring in a commanding ball playing centre back. Because it enables us to not play so deep. We could also do with someone with a bit of drive in midfield or some pace. But the key to us not playing so deep and defensive, is a ball playing centre back with the ability to pick out a pass. And it would be further helped by having Lee back but at the moment Bannan is benefiting from having a ball playing centre back in the team and playing out of his skin. But we could also do with some pace to carry the ball further up the pitch and create space and service for our strikers to feed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 12 hours ago, Holmowl said: "Scrape wins"! You are special. We win 4-0, 5-1,4-1,3-0....but because it's not the line-up you strongly favour (FF striker, Bannan LW) its weak opposition, oppos with nothing to play for, easy matches, freak games where every shot goes in. Grind a 1-0 with FF up top and Bannan left and it's a Carlos master-class. You don't scrape six wins on the bounce. That's really special. So special that it is 24 years since we did it. Give the players some credit. Eh? What on earth are you banging on about? None of those wins had Bannan/Jones in midfield as a pair. Apart from 1 game (Newcastle), it's been bloody awful. We've managed to scrape a couple of other wins. Show me another good performance/win with those 2 in a 442. QPR away? Pinched a win. And you keep referring to this 6 game win, yet the truth is the only games that pairing won for us, are the 2 I've already mentioned. The change to 433 won us the Rotherham, Cardiff and Derby games. Even this season, we had to switch to 433 against QPR and Sunderland to rescue a point. So all in all, you've got 1 good performance and a handful of wins we scraped with those 2 paired up in a 442. The rest have either been shocking performances/results or we've had to change formation to rescue a result because it wasn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 12 hours ago, Holmowl said: 18th Feb. Last game we won with Hutch in CM. Hutch is absolutely not the future in CM, for so many different reasons. Great footballer, but we have to move on. Last season....with Hutch in midfield... More likely to win, more likely to score, less likely to concede, less likely to lose. Also averaged more points per game..... Fact. The mistake we've made is not signing another Hutch to play in midfield when he's out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said: Eh? What on earth are you banging on about? None of those wins had Bannan/Jones in midfield as a pair. Apart from 1 game (Newcastle), it's been bloody awful. We've managed to scrape a couple of other wins. Show me another good performance/win with those 2 in a 442. QPR away? Pinched a win. And you keep referring to this 6 game win, yet the truth is the only games that pairing won for us, are the 2 I've already mentioned. The change to 433 won us the Rotherham, Cardiff and Derby games. Even this season, we had to switch to 433 against QPR and Sunderland to rescue a point. So all in all, you've got 1 good performance and a handful of wins we scraped with those 2 paired up in a 442. The rest have either been shocking performances/results or we've had to change formation to rescue a result because it wasn't working. However we interpret the starting formations and mid-match switches, Jones and Bannan have been central to our midfield for 8 games, more often than not as a two, and we have won five and drawn three. Whether your first-choice or fifth-choice, we should enjoy their success and be very grateful that with 3 of our 5 CMs these two have formed a hugely effective partnership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Holmowl said: However we interpret the starting formations and mid-match switches, Jones and Bannan have been central to our midfield for 8 games, more often than not as a two, and we have won five and drawn three. Whether your first-choice or fifth-choice, we should enjoy their success and be very grateful that with 3 of our 5 CMs these two have formed a hugely effective partnership. Ah so now you're moving the goal posts? Bit of a difference between 3 midfielders/3 strikers and 4 midfielders/2 strikers. Which 8 games are you talking about? Edited August 22, 2017 by IstillhateSteveBould Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Just now, IstillhateSteveBould said: Ah so now you're moving the goal posts? Bit of a difference between 3 midfielders/3 strikers and 4 midfielders/2 strikers. Which 8 games are you talking about? Barnsley Rotherham Newcastle QPR Cardiff QPR Sunderland Fulham 5 wins, 3 draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamAP22D Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 16 hours ago, FreshOwl said: yes it does and has Go on then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamAP22D Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 This thread is hilarious Some so bitter towards Jones, they're some of the same ones licking the ass of FF? Confusing. I'm sure our two biggest winning runs came last season when Hutchinson was out. I'm not going check it up and research it because I don't care enough but I am sure that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 How is Jones an enigma? As a centre-mid, he's won promotion to the prem 4 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 11 hours ago, SiJ said: Don't you be coming in here with your facts. Yes, I think Kevin Phillips has the record for most promotions to the Prem with 5, just one ahead of Dave Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Barnsley Rotherham Newcastle QPR Cardiff QPR Sunderland Fulham 5 wins, 3 draws. Rotherham, 433. Then Cardiff, 0-0 and not looking like scoring until we changed to 433. QPR and Sunderland were both winning and we were poor with 442. Changing it, again rescued us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, wilyfox said: How is Jones an enigma? As a centre-mid, he's won promotion to the prem 4 times. He succeeds enigmatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernOwl Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, wilyfox said: How is Jones an enigma? As a centre-mid, he's won promotion to the prem 4 times. This stat tells you everything you need to know. Jones is the type of player that is loved by managers but will always be underappreciated by fans. He is not a pretty footballer and never does anything that stands out ( last weeks goal aside!). But he does the little things so effectively, mops everything up, rarely gives it away and most importantly gives the more creative players the freedom to concentrate on what they do best. Often when he’s playing you hardly notice him but when he’s not in the team you suddenly realise what you’ve been missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said: Rotherham, 433. Then Cardiff, 0-0 and not looking like scoring until we changed to 433. QPR and Sunderland were both winning and we were poor with 442. Changing it, again rescued us. Given the recent eight game unbeaten record of Jones-Bannan, would you drop Jones for Hutch as soon as he is fit? Just to be clear, comparing with this eight game run... Jones - Won 5 Drawn 3 Hutch - Won 3 Drawn 1 Lost 4 I'm not sure many managers would break up a key partnership in the middle of such a strong run.....sadly I do know one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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