Hooper

[Holmowl]

11 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

At which point, that does change things (because I used both soccerway and transfermarkt). 

Firstly... that makes his goalscoring record look even more impressive. The reason being is that I used transfermarkt for his goalscoring record, and I think it's fair to say that we shouldn't include his Southend days.

 

However

 

I wasn't debating he's one of the best goalscorers in the Championship... to me that isn't up for debate... it's a fact.

I was saying he's not fit enough to ever score 20 goals in a season. The facts remain he doesn't finish half the games he starts in, and he starts fewer than two thirds of games. He's just not consistent or fit enough to score 20 goals a season. 

 

Agreed. His goal scoring record, whilst on the field, is remarkable. Even compared to Rhodes and McC.

 

No idea why he only played 35 matches for Scunny the season he scored 19.

 

As for Norwich, their fans bemoaned the fact that Neal played 451 and left Hooper out a lot. 

 

He certainly is consistent. How can the player with such a fantastic goal ratio be classed as anything else? That would make every goal-getter inconsistent if Hooper is.

 

As for fitness, perhaps you and others are right. If so, then yes it's scandalous that he came back out of shape in modern football, though he did get an injury setback in pre-season. He does need to be on that field though. He is easily our main goal threat, and we score many more as a team when he does play.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

51 minutes ago, owlZfan84 said:

A small minority of our fans really are thick. No 2 ways about it.

 

More than a small minority

[Holmowl]

2 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

Got to love holmowl's ability to complete ignore things and carry on regardless 

 

 

And why are you discounting Hooper's early career but not Rhodes'? 

 

The fact is Hooper is not a 20-25 goal a season striker. 

 

Well given that he wears our shirt, let's both hope he is this season eh?

[SiJ]

Hooper has a  good record throughout his career. 

 

At times he's a frustrating player to watch, but the guy gets goals (always has done). 

Edited August 30, 2016 by SiJ

[IstillhateSteveBould]

4 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

Well given that he wears our shirt, let's both hope he is this season eh?

 

I hope he scores in every game, as I do with every Wednesday player.

Edited August 30, 2016 by IstillhateSteveBould

[Dazblur]

Do i want Hooper to run around like a massive lump of a donkey all over the place like another certain striker? - No

Do I want him to be in the box on the end of chances?  - Yes,

Quite a simple job for him if you ask me with all the stats mentioned above!,

 

 

[dorian gray]

On 29/08/2016 at 12:53, StudentOwl said:

Hey, I don't have an opinion on it... if anything I put it like that to make a point

7 in 24 sounds a bit poor from an "out-and-out" goalscorer

Only scoring in 5 matches out of the last 24 sounds very poor

Yet I'm sure if you did it by goals-to-minutes, it'd be closer to a goal ever 180 minutes (haven't actually chekced this, but wouldn't surprise me)

 

Guess it depends on the way you swing it as to whether you think that's good enough or not. My only opinion is that he's tubby, and his past goalscoring record he's in the top 3 best out-and-out goalscorers in the league. I'll let everyone else decide whether he's lost his mojo or not 

add to that 'are we offering the best supply?'

i very much doubt it...

[StudentOwl]

36 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

And why are you discounting Hooper's early career but not Rhodes'? 

 

Because, for the sake of fairness, it seems silly to include Hooper's Championship stats at Southend when he was a teenager and averaging 24 minutes an appearance. You can't take an 18/19 year old Hooper's first Championship season where he barely averaged a quarter of a game played, and then think it's fair to compare that to a 23 year old Jordan Rhodes' first Championship season where he averaged about 80 minutes a game. 

 

To be fair, they're incomparable... to get a good picture, you need to offer a fair basis to start from, and I agree with Holmowl at least that it should be looking at the point that they both start getting regular Championship gametime ... ie Hooper's Champ season at Scunny and Rhodes' Champ season at Huddersfield. Incidentally that means we start judging Hooper's Championship career at the age of 21, and Rhodes' at 23.

 

 

 

I repeat I think what I've effectively been saying since December:

Gary Hooper is the best goalscorer in this division in terms of goals-per-minute... but I don't think he will score 20 goals in a single season because he's just not fit enough. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by StudentOwl

[IstillhateSteveBould]

13 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Because, for the sake of fairness, it seems silly to include Hooper's Championship stats at Southend when he was a teenager and averaging 24 minutes an appearance. You can't take an 18/19 year old Hooper's first Championship season where he barely averaged a quarter of a game played, and then think it's fair to compare that to a 23 year old Jordan Rhodes' first Championship season where he averaged about 80 minutes a game. 

 

To be fair, they're incomparable... to get a good picture, you need to offer a fair basis to start from, and I agree with Holmowl at least that it should be looking at the point that they both start getting regular Championship gametime ... ie Hooper's Champ season at Scunny and Rhodes' Champ season at Huddersfield. Incidentally that means we start judging Hooper's Championship career at the age of 21, and Rhodes' at 23.

 

 

 

I repeat I think what I've effectively been saying since December:

Gary Hooper is the best goalscorer in this division in terms of goals-per-minute... but I don't think he will score 20 goals in a single season because he's just not fit enough. 

 

Fair point. 

 

The bolded bit - I agree with the first part, disagree with the reason though. Yes fitness may be a small issue, but I think it's more down to the fact that he offers so little aside from his goals. Managers don't tend to rely on players that need "carrying". 

[oldishowl]

It is really easy to say on here that Hooper should be starting and keep quoting stat after stat

 

It is a lot harder when you have 15/16 quality players pushing to make the first 11 and you are an under pressure manager .

A manager who knows enough of the others will run their socks of for the team, have looked after themselves and are fit enough enough to play 90 mins. 

And these are not headless chickens, they are quality players.

 

Hooper has been tripe this season so far. Sure he has not played much but that is his own fault.

He lasted the first half at Burton and there was a couple of times when the ball was in the 6 yd box and he didn't react at all. If Nuhiu had missed the Leeds chance it would have generated a 30 page thread.

 

Just to be clear I loved Hooper last season, his goal scoring was great and fantastic first touch and we need his goal scoring if we are going to get in the top 6

 

But he is making it very hard for Carlos to pick him at the moment .

 

 

[Costello 77]

Just a point on statistics. They can illuminate certain discussions and debates. What they cannot do is highlight why fans love a certain player. 

 

[Paolo Di Catio]

Those slagging Hooper have not got a clue

[Socialist_Owl]

Agreed.  Hooper's my favorite.  I just want to see him bag a goal so bad just to break the block he's on right now.  

[I Love Sturrock]

- Hooper has a few consecutive games he doesn't score in
- Fans want him dropped and label him lazy, fat and uninterested
- Hooper scores and goes on a run of scoring in the next 7 consecutive games, because he's scored in spurts for his entire career and runs on confidence
- Fans think he's the best striker in the league
- Hooper has a few consecutive games he doesn't score in
- Fans want him dropped and label him lazy, fat and uninterested

 

Rinse and repeat

[theowlsman]

Quality player for this division.

[torryowl]

On 8/28/2016 at 11:55, torres said:

Near the end when it was a bit hectic the players were running their tails off - apart from him. 

 

Play him every week I've no doubt at all he'd score 20+ goals but we wouldn't finish top 6. He'd be the McCormack/Rhodes of the team.

maybe carlos told him to hang around the box .....running his arse off isnt his game is it ,he's a goalscorer pure and simple .i'm pretty sure if he scores 20 plus goals this season then everyone will be delighted with him .

[bigthinrob]

4 hours ago, owlZfan84 said:

A small minority of our fans really are thick. No 2 ways about it.

 

Give Hooper a decent run in the team, and he'll score goals. His stats prove that.

 

Just as a side note, I remember some of our fans slating Antonio too when he was coming towards the end of his playing career at S6. Now look at him.

 

Some fans need to take up a new hobby as they clearly know nowt bout football.

It's all about opinions mate.

 

Because someone has a different take on things to you doesn't make them 'thick' or 'know nowt about football'.

 

Strong opinions come back to haunt us all and quite often prove it's the ones who are calling other thick and knowing nothing about football that are proved to be just that.

 

Hooper is what he is. He's a decent striker when he's on form and definitely not a decent striker when he's off form or not fit, which seems to me to be habitually every first few games of a new season and assorted other periods. As for bouts of poor form, a bit too regular for comfort for me. 

 

Like i said, and said last year, he's ok as an option, as long as there are quality alternatives. As a constant regular fixture on the team sheet, not good enough. Too inconsistent, but it's all about opinions isn't it! 

 

[torryowl]

7 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

It's all about opinions mate.

 

Because someone has a different take on things to you doesn't make them 'thick' or 'know nowt about football'.

 

Strong opinions come back to haunt us all and quite often prove it's the ones who are calling other thick and knowing nothing about football that are proved to be just that.

 

Hooper is what he is. He's a decent striker when he's on form and definitely not a decent striker when he's off form or not fit, which seems to me to be habitually every first few games of a new season and assorted other periods. As for bouts of poor form, a bit too regular for comfort for me. 

 

Like i said, and said last year, he's ok as an option, as long as there are quality alternatives. As a constant regular fixture on the team sheet, not good enough. Too inconsistent, but it's all about opinions isn't it! 

 

i think if he played every game he'd get us 15 -20 goals . we know he adds nothing else to the team except his goalscoring ,whether that makes him a viable regular is a moot point .i'd have him in my side but can understand if others dont .

[bigthinrob]

1 hour ago, torryowl said:

i think if he played every game he'd get us 15 -20 goals . we know he adds nothing else to the team except his goalscoring ,whether that makes him a viable regular is a moot point .i'd have him in my side but can understand if others dont .

But can you play him every game when he goes through regular periods of poor form?

 

We need alternatives that would give us the options when he is struggling.

 

You cannot 'accommodate' players in this league anymore, who are not firing on absolute top form.

 

This is why other teams have multiple options in this department and we have struggled.

 

I also happen to think his approach to early season fitness (and his fitness in general) leaves something to be desired and possibly casts some doubts on his professionalism, especially in this day and age.

 

 

[torryowl]

1 minute ago, bigthinrob said:

But can you play him every game when he goes through regular periods of poor form?

 

We need alternatives that would give us the options when he is struggling.

 

You cannot 'accommodate' players in this league anymore, who are not firing on absolute top form.

 

This is why other teams have multiple options in this department and we have struggled.

 

I also happen to think his approach to early season fitness (and his fitness in general) leaves something to be desired and possibly casts some doubts on his professionalism, especially in this day and age.

 

 

i cant believe that someone as clued up on fitness levels carlos would entertain playing someone who neglects his fitness .he's a strange shape i'll grant you but he'll have been on the same pre season as the other players and they'll be monitored to reach the levels the club have set them .........