Blue and white Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I strongly believe any manager who the fans didn't dislike would have been able to do the job Gray has done this year. The door to the cult is open to you,you have wisdom and courage which is wasted. Seek out the come back thread for answers to your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I strongly believe any manager who the fans didn't dislike would have been able to do the job Gray has done this year. I find that bizarre. Are you saying personality in a manager is much more important than ability? Perhaps you think we should have got that Holloway chap in. He always seems to be well liked by fans ( until he gets their clubs into the bottom 3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The one you negated to answer. You say he has had loads of managerial experience,such as. I must have missed where you asked me to elaborate on my answer or you may have thought you asked but didn't (I'm sure its the latter); anyway, I didn't say he had loads of managerial experience, what you said was "His managerial record consists of a so so job at Northampton" and I stated that this was wrong and that Gray has more experience than that. To elaborate on my answer; other than the 18 months as caretaker manager and Head Coach at Wednesday, Gray has managed at Southampton and Northampton and has been caretaker Manager at Villa, Wolves, Burnley and Portsmouth. I hope you can see that I was correct when pointing out that "fact" 2 in your list was wrong as Gray's Managerial career is more than just a "so-so" job at Northampton. No need to apologise. You leaving the thread now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shakesby Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I find that bizarre. Are you saying personality in a manager is much more important than ability? Perhaps you think we should have got that Holloway chap in. He always seems to be well liked by fans ( until he gets their clubs into the bottom 3). This season, I think it would have been irrelevant. We were never going up, never going down. We basically were too good to go down, too bad to go up. Wouldn't have mattered who the manager was just so long as the majority liked him, which they do with Gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 OK - I'm going to lay my cards on the table, and say it how it actually is without any bias from either side. Gray, this season, has done a relatively good job. He has come in, and do some things very well - such as getting the players on side, setting the side up solidly making sure our weaknesses are avoided and strengths are taken advantage of with the players at our disposal. He's signed some good players, some the jury is still out on. There's no question he's popular in the club, he's a genuine guy and that is absolutely refreshing to see considering some of the people we've had in charge of the team over the last 10 years or so. I suspect every single person on this thread would be delighted if he was the guy to take us up, because, to spout a cliche, he's a 'proper' football man. But that's not to say this season has been perfect, or even as good as people have made out. Firstly, this season has probably been financially, and emotionally, the most stable it has been since our relegation from the Premier League in my opinion. Yes, we haven't hit the heights of 9th like we did with Laws, but we also had an owner in Mandaric who is respectable and had the clubs best interests at heart, unlike back then. In effect, you could say this has been the easiest season since our relegation for any manager. There's been next to no backlash, no serious aggravation, the players have all got along, the club has been performing fairly well. Even considering our poor home form, it hasn't really been looked aggressively upon like it would have been in the past. This has been our Switzerland year, and it would probably have been more difficult for Gray not to have done well really. Next season will be different because there will be expectations, pressure, and the fans won't accept poor results. Next, moving on to that home form, it simply hasn't been good enough. You can make as many excuses up as you like about the pitch, the clean sheets, the poor strikers, the point still remains we were better at home in our relegation seasons than we were this year. There is absolutely no logical way to excuse it. Gray has said it's because of our style of play, which begs the question - why not change it and actually train for this style of play instead of insisting on a passing game that simply isn't suitable? It shocks a lack of tactical flexibility and a rigidity in opinion that could hinder the club if we're serious about promotion. We need to be flexible, we need to be able to adapt, not just persist with one style even if it doesn't work. We need Hillsborough to be the ground where we pick up points. You simply do not get promoted with home form like ours, and it needs sorting next year - no excuses. Thirdly, the lack of goals full stop. I'm going to put this down to Gray realising quite early on in the season that staying tight and grinding out results suits this bunch of players. We do it well. Last season, if you all remember, we were pretty fluid, we attacked a lot and scored quite a few goals; but we also conceded quite a lot. Gray has struggled to find the balance this year in team set-up. You have to say that with better players, you suspect that Gray will be more adept at doing this, but the signings have raised one or two question marks in my eyes - they are all mainly defenders. This year we've signed Vermilj, Westwood, Lees, Dielna, Melo, Hutchinson... All fairly defensively minded players. Attacking options? McGugan, Bus, Keane and May - possibly Isgrove, but he seems more of an inside left than an actual wide player, providing a lot of defensive cover. It seems like Gray is determined not to strengthen the areas we actually need working on, take Vermilj, as an example of that. People also seem to forget that, overall, we have 'apparently' (according to Gray in his interviews) made numerous bids and offers for loads of players on loan and permanently, usually in an attacking sense, but none of them have wanted to sign. Which again begs the question - why? It is very unusual. My final criticism is that we are going to finish in 14th position. Not even top half. Which is concerning for such a great season which we're supposed to have had. Is it actually the case? Have we really been that good? Personally, I don't see it. We've had some remarkable success this year, the clean sheets, signing Westwood, our away form, arguably league position, the takeover... But also some very big doubts, mainly the home form and lack of goals. Stuff needs addressing, and it needs addressing soon. However, not drastic change needs doing, and that includes keeping Gray. I don't agree with everything you say, but that's a great, well though out post. Don't underestimate the impact Gray had in creating this 'Switzerland' year, as you put it (Great metaphor, by the way!). Last summer saw the protracted fakeover saga of Mammadov, which could have had a VERY destabilising effect on the club from top to bottom, and certainly put our recruitment on hold for a while. The sale of Antonio on the eve of the season could have also been used as an excuse for instability, but was quickly brushed to one side by Gray. The sense of togetherness and team spirit has been created by Gray and his coaching team - these things don't just happen by accident. There are several other clubs who spent relatively huge sums to build a team, but failed to realise that money can't buy you team spirit - Forest, Fulham and Cardiff, for example. My main worry with sacking Gray now that we're wealthy, is that we already have the team spirit that money can't buy - no amount of spending can replace that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I must have missed where you asked me to elaborate on my answer or you may have thought you asked but didn't (I'm sure its the latter); anyway, I didn't say he had loads of managerial experience, what you said was "His managerial record consists of a so so job at Northampton" and I stated that this was wrong and that Gray has more experience than that. To elaborate on my answer; other than the 18 months as caretaker manager and Head Coach at Wednesday, Gray has managed at Southampton and Northampton and has been caretaker Manager at Villa, Wolves, Burnley and Portsmouth. I hope you can see that I was correct when pointing out that "fact" 2 in your list was wrong as Gray's Managerial career is more than just a "so-so" job at Northampton. No need to apologise. You leaving the thread now? So you say caretaker manager,obviously not that good then or they would have kept him on don't you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shakesby Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I don't agree with everything you say, but that's a great, well though out post. Don't underestimate the impact Gray had in creating this 'Switzerland' year, as you put it (Great metaphor, by the way!). Last summer saw the protracted fakeover saga of Mammadov, which could have had a VERY destabilising effect on the club from top to bottom, and certainly put our recruitment on hold for a while. The sale of Antonio on the eve of the season could have also been used as an excuse for instability, but was quickly brushed to one side by Gray. The sense of togetherness and team spirit has been created by Gray and his coaching team - these things don't just happen by accident. There are several other clubs who spent relatively huge sums to build a team, but failed to realise that money can't buy you team spirit - Forest, Fulham and Cardiff, for example. My main worry with sacking Gray now that we're wealthy, is that we already have the team spirit that money can't buy - no amount of spending can replace that. Can't disagree with any of that. Completely forgot about Mammadov - and of course, Antonio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I strongly believe any manager who the fans didn't dislike would have been able to do the job Gray has done this year. The key was a manager who knew the team already but didn't have favourites and got everyone working together. Whether the fans like him or not seems less important. Even if it was another manager that had done the same, they'd still be in with a deserved shout next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Be harsh on Gray, but I reckon he was always gonna get either moved down, or shown the door. If Chansiri had confidence in him, he wouldn't have brought 2 heads in to work with him, it would have just been Pearson....Seriously....Why Glen Roeder?....I thought maybe to move into Grays place...I still have that suspicion...but if we were to have a new manager...Roeder??...so i dunno. Gray not being at the initial meeting is odd..Gray making statements separate to the others...odd... You would think a new regime,,,,triumvirate..whatever , would get their heads together and show harmony...hasn't really happened..its a bit discordant. A new pitch and a new TV.....Fans turning cartwheels over that...as though Chansiri actually read the forums....I don't really give a flyer about either...The pitch is only really sh3eeite cos of neglect, and I don't really need much info from a scoreboard bar the bloody elapsed time....So if they think the two in conjuncion are gonna work as a baby pacifier...They may have misjudged. Stuart Gray has delivered each time asked..Its been mainly a bore this season, but its better than the relegation scrap most of us were reckoning on....and the season before he took over from a manager who had lost all interest and galvanised a push to safety....I salute him for that...sadly thats it... The chairman has raised both prices and expectations along with it...How long are Wednesday fans going to give it, until the new screen fades, and the grass..green as it is..is still just grass?..Not very long i would imagine from experience... If it starts badly, eyes will turn from the telly and the greensward , to the dugout....Gray will be the first sacrifice i reckon...unless he gets a very very good start...hope he does, cos I reckon he deserves a little more than I suspect he will get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) So you say caretaker manager,obviously not that good then or they would have kept him on don't you think. Manager at Southampton also. I don't know what the reason was for Gray not to become manager at the clubs where he was caretaker - there could be a myriad of reasons. That fact is though that the fact you stated was wrong and you are not offering evidence or reason into your argument for Gray to go. Edited May 1, 2015 by shandypants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopswfc76 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 "Half a brain" Don't make me laugh. He has done a mediocre job with the resources available. We have moved on from mediocre and want better - simple. If you were holding the purse strings, would you honestly trust Gray to deliver ? Yes i would as hes done a better job that anybody expected when he took over last season so why change it makes no sense to have a manager who improves every year with hands tied behind his back to sack him when we have some backing for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2hoots Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Not much point in talking about " Team Spirit etc. " when most people hope and expect that a very large slice of the current team will very shortly be replaced. Most seem to think that it doesn't happen overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 All the more reason to retain the spine of the side and build on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG D Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The fact that 1.Gray hasn't spoken to Chansiri yet. 2. hasn't 'sat down' with Pearson & Roeder either. 3. he wasn't at the Press Conference last week All speaks volumes to me, can't see him being here too much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The fact that 1.Gray hasn't spoken to Chansiri yet. 2. hasn't 'sat down' with Pearson & Roeder either. 3. he wasn't at the Press Conference last week All speaks volumes to me, can't see him being here too much longer. So Gray deflects the usual journo nonsense by saying he hasn't spoken to anyone and see that is " FACT " ok yeah...do you know where the managers office is compared to the chairman's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRUCE LEE Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 There's no 2 ways about it, he doesn't seem very integrated with the new set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 A good old fashioned rogering tomorrow will only speed up his departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jack Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Yes but they had a poo manager to.[/quotThere problem comes from continually sacking managers Not a great strategy for success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 A good old fashioned rogering tomorrow will only speed up his departure. Oh dear. This threads gone too far. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Yes but they had a poo manager to.[/quotThere problem comes from continually sacking managers Not a great strategy for success Alternatively appointing the right manager in the first place negates sacking the poor manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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