Tom Lees

[83owl]

19 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

I agree a bit.

Nothing against Tom Lees and sorry he was injured Saturday and hope he recovers quickly.

He is though a bread and butter championship defender on probably £1m a season.

One of my pet hates is using phrases like 'Good Servant' for modern day footballers.

He signed a 5 year deal on roughly 25k a week. I know we have been criticised for not tying players down but thats ridiculous.

[CircleSeven]

1 minute ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

Tom Lees is just looking after himself, his family and his career. 99% would do the same.

Not being disloyal as club get rid of players quick enough if not good enough and no one says the club is being disloyal.

I am sure his agent will have had informal talks at least with Wednesday and other clubs.

Agreed. I am always surprised when players are characterised as disloyal for getting to the end of their contract and then leaving for some one who is offering them more money. 
If the club wanted him that much we would have had a chance a year ago to extend. If my employer let me get to the end of a contract and then offered me a paycut but another employer offered me significantly more money I’d leave. And I’d be amazed if anyone called me ‘disloyal’. 

[parajack]

10 minutes ago, whatevertrevor said:

 

 

He was right though. You used 'allegedly' incorrectly, which distorted your intended meaning.

 

'Allegedly' as some form of defence would only work if you can point to the allegations from a third party, not your own allegations. 

 

No big deal anyway.

As i said,i have tried to move on,but it seems you are intent on being pedantic,not me...I dont agree......however if you would like to site a reference source to confirm your view,i will look at it again.....Now is there any chance we can go back to football? Not sure why the post style of a 64 year old man is so interesting....

[CircleSeven]

17 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

We offered contracts to Lees, Bannan & Reach at the end of last year 

Fair enough. Fûck him then. Greedy disloyal twàt. 

[parajack]

11 minutes ago, CircleSeven said:

Agreed. I am always surprised when players are characterised as disloyal for getting to the end of their contract and then leaving for some one who is offering them more money. 
If the club wanted him that much we would have had a chance a year ago to extend. If my employer let me get to the end of a contract and then offered me a paycut but another employer offered me significantly more money I’d leave. And I’d be amazed if anyone called me ‘disloyal’. 

I agree,there is little if any loyalty in football,its about business.Moe the pity,money,big money,has ruined everything.As a youngster(15) i was doing hard manual work 8 hours a day in a Brickyard.Never the less at lunchtime,we would have a kick about and play 'footie at the top of the yard,for nearly the full hour,than back to work.

We loved the game that much,ditto after work at least a couple of times a week,a group of us would meet in Hillsborough Park and do the same...Where has that love gone?? The sheer joy of turning out and playing?  Do you lose all of that just because your a pro? Seems so sometimes..

[modboy]

move on them all

 

lets face it a fresh start is needed be that release or sell

[Lunny1968]

The perils of running your contract down!  Lees has had an offer on the table since December which he has decided not to sign, therefore although it is a sad situation if the injury is long term then it is a self inflicted situation on his part.  He has been a good servant but in the last couple of seasons his form has dropped off.  I think he is stale and needs a move.  Time for a parting of the ways. 

[parajack]

19 minutes ago, 83owl said:

He signed a 5 year deal on roughly 25k a week. I know we have been criticised for not tying players down but thats ridiculous.

Totally agree,

[heppers]

£25k for a player who is only as good as the man next to him. Not great.

[whatevertrevor]

Just now, parajack said:

As i said,i have tried to move on,but it seems you are intent on being pedantic,not me...I dont agree......however if you would like to site a reference source to confirm your view,i will look at it again.....Now is there any chance we can go back to football? Not sure why the post style of a 64 year old man is so interesting....

 

That's the first post I made on it. Its only a bit of a chat my friend. No big deal. No malice intended. 

 

But I was simply agreeing with @areNOTwhatTHEYseem that using 'allegedly' as a form of legal protection doesn't work/make sense when it refers to your own allegations, which is how you used it.

 

The point of the 'allegedly' protection is that you can say that you were not accusing said person of said wrong-doing, but were simply mentioning that others have accused them of such. If you are referring to your own allegations then obviously you wouldn't be protecting yourself from libel/defamation. 

 

If someone was to write 'Tom Lees is an alleged shop-lifter' the reader would infer that Tom Lees has been accused somewhere of being a shop lifter. Not that he was simply being accused by that writer. So it was an erroneous use of the word 'allegedly', that's all, which is why he assumed you were referring to other allegations. 

 

As I say, no big deal at all. I just noticed the chat between you two and I do find the use of language interesting. 

 

 

[TodwickOwl]

To be fair - if we had consistently upgraded the side to compete at the highest level in the Championship year on year and recruited well, Reach and Lees I would bet would be playing at a consistently better level and we probably wouldn't have looked back on their last 2-3 years being flat. 

 

But we've signed a load of pap, had a load of pap managers and guess what - they've been pap.

 

Again, down to management, recruitment and ultimately the chairman. 

[parajack]

37 minutes ago, whatevertrevor said:

 

That's the first post I made on it. Its only a bit of a chat my friend. No big deal. No malice intended. 

 

But I was simply agreeing with @areNOTwhatTHEYseem that using 'allegedly' as a form of legal protection doesn't work/make sense when it refers to your own allegations, which is how you used it.

 

The point of the 'allegedly' protection is that you can say that you were not accusing said person of said wrong-doing, but were simply mentioning that others have accused them of such. If you are referring to your own allegations then obviously you wouldn't be protecting yourself from libel/defamation. 

 

If someone was to write 'Tom Lees is an alleged shop-lifter' the reader would infer that Tom Lees has been accused somewhere of being a shop lifter. Not that he was simply being accused by that writer. So it was an erroneous use of the word 'allegedly', that's all, which is why he assumed you were referring to other allegations. 

 

As I say, no big deal at all. I just noticed the chat between you two and I do find the use of language interesting. 

 

 

People really dont want to read this mate,its a football forum,(but if you insist on offering up an opinion which is what it is,by the way,as fact)site your reference source,i have already told you i have a contrary view.

[CircleSeven]

22 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

yes it is the case, he was offered one before the situation changed. He decided to wait. 
You are either loyal to a job, partner or whatever else you want to relate this too or you are not and are looking for other options. 
I haven’t a problem with people who want to move and not show loyalty ( like it or not that’s what it is. ) and even more so when the club or company have looked after him which they did. But what I won’t do as I stated previously is lose sleep over the people who have no loyalty, if something goes wrong like this.  
 

if you want options and to not commit don’t cry when options get reduced. 

 

You must have missed my earlier post after I’d been assured he had been offered a contract. 
So here it is again. ‘Fair enough.Fûck him then, greedy disloyal twát’

[CircleSeven]

1 hour ago, parajack said:

I agree,there is little if any loyalty in football,its about business.Moe the pity,money,big money,has ruined everything.As a youngster(15) i was doing hard manual work 8 hours a day in a Brickyard.Never the less at lunchtime,we would have a kick about and play 'footie at the top of the yard,for nearly the full hour,than back to work.

We loved the game that much,ditto after work at least a couple of times a week,a group of us would meet in Hillsborough Park and do the same...Where has that love gone?? The sheer joy of turning out and playing?  Do you lose all of that just because your a pro? Seems so sometimes..

I kind of think two things are true at once:

Players probably would play for a quarter of the wages, or even for free if professional football didn’t exist. I think most footballers do love the sport. 
 

But, at the same time if you are going to get paid millions to play then they are going to take it. And fair play. Young, often working class lads getting big money. Why not? But the problem is it is now so much money it affects how they behave, and never for the better. 
 

Looking at Tom Lees it looks like he’s taken a gamble on getting more money than we’ve offered him. No doubt what we offered is still a fortune to most working people, but he probably thought he could get more as a free agent. If his leg isn’t broken he still might come out smiling. If he had broken it he’d have gambled and lost. But when the money is massive that’s the type of thing people do. 
 

Lees is reportedly on a £25,000 per week contract. He’s probably not even in the top 50 central defenders playing in England. It’s absolute madness!

[DIPPS_S.W.F.C]

Bannan,Windass,uhgi,Palmer,Westwood,Penny,Dele,Green,Iorfa,Dunkley,Hutch.........

Only ones id consider keeping/extending and some of them are walking on a thin tightrope.....

All the rest,every one of em can do one,really do one,not good enough,get rid servants or not BYE......

Time for youth top prevail with a dash of experiance......

UTO

[whatevertrevor]

59 minutes ago, parajack said:

People really dont want to read this mate,its a football forum,(but if you insist on offering up an opinion which is what it is,by the way,as fact)site your reference source,i have already told you i have a contrary view.

 

You're right people don't want to read it. 

 

There are numerous sources available that talk about when the use of 'allegedly' is appropriate and when it isn't in legal contexts, but not one of them will talk about its use in terms of using it to preface your own allegations - because that way just doesn't make sense. This isn't a matter of law, this is just a simple matter of incorrect use of the word in that context. It isn't a matter of opinion I'm afraid. 

I'm sure 99% of people can see that and I have never ever seen it used in that way. That's why it was funny when you said 'Tom Lees allegedly didn't try...' and @areNOTwhatTHEYseemsaid 'who alleged that'? and you replied 'Me, I alleged it, just now'. Most people can see the comedy in that and probably thought you were being funny. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[parajack]

11 minutes ago, CircleSeven said:

I kind of think two things are true at once:

Players probably would play for a quarter of the wages, or even for free if professional football didn’t exist. I think most footballers do love the sport. 
 

But, at the same time if you are going to get paid millions to play then they are going to take it. And fair play. Young, often working class lads getting big money. Why not? But the problem is it is now so much money it affects how they behave, and never for the better. 
 

Looking at Tom Lees it looks like he’s taken a gamble on getting more money than we’ve offered him. No doubt what we offered is still a fortune to most working people, but he probably thought he could get more as a free agent. If his leg isn’t broken he still might come out smiling. If he had broken it he’d have gambled and lost. But when the money is massive that’s the type of thing people do. 
 

Lees is reportedly on a £25,000 per week contract. He’s probably not even in the top 50 central defenders playing in England. It’s absolute madness!

Totally agree and whilst it was coming out of Chansiris pocket,well....but now? even now the Club is cagey about admission prices hedging their bets with 'open to looking at prices' but the Club has to break even..

 

[parajack]

Just now, whatevertrevor said:

 

You're right people don't want to read it. 

 

There are numerous sources available that talk about when the use of 'allegedly' is appropriate and when it isn't in legal contexts, but not one of them will talk about its use in terms of using it to preface your own allegations - because that way just doesn't make sense. This isn't a matter of law, this is just a simple matter of incorrect use of the word in that context. It isn't a matter of opinion I'm afraid. 

I'm sure 99% of people can see that and I have never ever seen it used in that way. That's why it was funny when you said 'Tom Lees allegedly didn't try...' and @areNOTwhatTHEYseemsaid 'who alleged that'? and you replied 'Me, I alleged it, just now'. Most people can see the comedy in that and probably thought you were being funny. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

isnt a matter of law?????   & there are 'numerous sources available' but you cant quote one?....mate just post something about football will you please?  Leave it as comedy...

[boxing_day]

We’ve made some bad decisions in recent years but that contract is right up there. Great tying a player down who was playing pretty well, but at that weekly cost we could never move him, or cash in as nobody was going to pick up that salary. There were also rumours (very much unsubstantiated as far as I’m aware) at the time his wage being leaked in the press was the catalyst that caused the ff dispute.

 

I don’t blame lees for talking the money, of course not. But I wonder how we came to that salary with him? You look at other players wages that were reported in the press that time, and decent value would have been 12k-15k for both parties. 

[parajack]

11 minutes ago, boxing_day said:

We’ve made some bad decisions in recent years but that contract is right up there. Great tying a player down who was playing pretty well, but at that weekly cost we could never move him, or cash in as nobody was going to pick up that salary. There were also rumours (very much unsubstantiated as far as I’m aware) at the time his wage being leaked in the press was the catalyst that caused the ff dispute.

 

I don’t blame lees for talking the money, of course not. But I wonder how we came to that salary with him? You look at other players wages that were reported in the press that time, and decent value would have been 12k-15k for both parties. 

Its beyond any sort of  working out isnt it? Cant help but wonder what our reputation as a Club has been during this time? also how many players we seemed to finish up with from Watford???

I still think personally thst GM had the best grasp of what was going on at the Club,and the way out of it....Had we stuck with him,we wouldnt have had the TP 'lean 10 games' & could at least maybe have capitalized on the couple of good results he achieved before being sacked...

GM left with a classy farewell,he didnt need to put the boot in,he knew what was coming,and probably was glad to get out of it?