Contracts - Positive reality

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

 

[Sultan_Pepper]

In all honesty I think transfer fees, off the back of the lockdowns and financial hardships lower down the leagues, will become a thing of the past for all but the premier league and teams really taking a gamble on getting there.

 

Players will sign for a decent wage with a signing bonus and then stay until their deal runs out which means they'll only really want to sign 2 year deals at most in the middle of their careers but longer deals at either end.

 

Youth prospects need to be signed on longer deals, they're the future and possibly the only way to make any money going forward if they get sold to the top flight.

[Ante's Bubbly]

Again, maybe not perfectly accurate, but interesting all the same... according to the salary sport.com site the annual wages bills for the top six championship clubs are vastly different:-

 

Norwich           £21.5m

Brentford         £16.6m

Swansea         £15.7m

Reading           £11.5m

Watford           £37m

Bournemouth £29.9m 

 

From the top six, only three teams have wage bills higher than ours, one of them only marginally, and all three have just come down from the prem!

 

Below are a couple of other teams wage bills along with ours for comparison, only Cardiff and Stoke have wage bills similar to ours and they both recently came down from the prem, where we have not been for 21 years!

21st  SWFC               £19.26m

 

 

7th Middlesboro       £15.7m

8th     Blackburn       £12.5m

They signed striker Adam Armstrong for £1.75m a couple of years ago, he is the second highest scorer in the division with 17 goals and has played for England from U16 level to U21 level.

This season they signed a free scoring young left back from Crewe called Harry Pickering who at 22 has already scored 10 goals for Crewe, reported fee to Crew £600k.

10th Bristol City       £14.6m

12th Preston             £9.8m

13th Barnsley            £7.9m

 

So our wage bill is still high, despite shedding a lot of high wage earners. The only problem being that teams like Blackburn, who have been down a division from us, but then come up to overtake us (like many other teams including Barnsley, Brentford, Millwall, Luton, The Pigs, etc), and continue to source high quality players at good prices and pay them lower wages than we do, while we let talented young players leave for next to nothing and concentrate then on replacing such players with older players with less talent and on much higher wages.

 

Several people have tried to argue on here that you cannot be successful with kids! I think even a lot of younger fans on here will have heard how that old chestnut has been smashed repeatedly in the past and is being demonstrated every week in this league by teams that play consistently more effectively than many others with a whole team full of young players. The fact that our player sourcing strategy is pathetically and woefully inadequate is made more and more obvious with every passing season, but there are still people who are prepared to back up the chairman and his choice of advisors. Somebody somewhere has got to put pressure on the club to up it's game at upper management level, because the playing staff and coaches are doing an amazing job at the moment with very limited resources (apart from the obviously over inflated wages). We have not been in the premiership for twenty one year, but we have been paying wages that would have you imagine that we are actually there already. It does have to stop and the people in upper management must convince the only person that seems to have any say in how things are run, that it has to change now, before the summer and behave in a logical, organised, effective and efficient way. That Mr Chansiri means that you have nothing to do with player signings, other than approving the budget for the year and your chum Paixo, has nothing else to do with the club, unless he wants to buy an Ifollow pass to follow the games. Spend up to a million pounds a year on qualified, player scouts, in wages, fees, expenses, or whatever if you want to and bring in those quality young players that all the other clubs are snapping up for peanuts. Your coaching staff should have far more say in the players that we look at too, never mind the players that we eventually get to think about signing (at the moment from Paixo's and other agent's lists), because that is the difference between being a football talent spotter/scout and a football agent. One spots talent before the price is high the other sells you a player whose price is too high, whether it be a transfer fee, agents fees, wages or all three.

[malek]

We payed fee to Manchester City for Dele Bashiru whom we signed on long term contract and really good (considering his age and experience) wages.

 

At the same time we are all but nailed to loose our own talent who is twice the player and twice as talented as Bashiru is and who is with club since he was 8 (so we should know everything about him by now) due to offering him far worst terms than to Bashiru.

 

If this doesn't point at how dangerously clueless guys running our club are, than I don't know what does.

 

In Shaw, Urhoghide, Penney and Grant we should have had young, talented core of players tied on sensible but long term deals to build around for both next season and long term future. We already lost Grant, and pretty much lost Shaw and I don't have much faith that other two will stay as well.

 

Last transfer window showed that players will be reluctant to join us and that we will have fight on our hands to put together quality squad for next season together. Having in mind who is deciding who goes and leaves I won't set my hopes high.

 

Only good news is that due to salary cap changes in leagues One and Two we will be able to offer much better terms to players from those leagues if we manage to stay up this season.

[Ante's Bubbly]

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

Dominic Iorfa                 £8,400    £436,800    25    D (RC), WB (R)    England

Josh Windass                £8,100    £421,200    26    AM (RLC), ST (C)    England
Fisayo Dele-Bashiru      £5,300    £275,600    19    M (C)    England

 

I'd be fuming if this was true and i was Windass/Iorfa 

 

Hmmm... that is a tough one and only history will tell. If FDB continues as he is doing, will he be a better player when he is 25/26? Apart from a handful of games Iorfa and Windass have not really established themselves and shown that their fitness levels deserve higher wages really do they? I am guessing tha Bashiru is really fancied by somebody and he does look very good for a young 19 year old, but it is tough to say. I would not want to call that one either way. 

[SolihullOwl79]

2 hours ago, kobayashi said:

By the same logic, could it be claimed to be a good thing to be homeless because it means you are not lumbered with high fuel bills?

 

Watching the £5m of investment in Reach for instance walk away for nothing seems a strange positive.

It's called looking at the silver lining of the dark cloud. Sometimes in life cutting your losses is the best option. 

An analogy for you.

Toxic partner with a great body and ace in the sack but a complete knob head / ***** most of the time. Get rid. Yeah you'll miss the excitement but be relieved of the dross. 

 

Reach- miss the wonder goals and occasional assist, but not the woeful tackling and high maintenance (wages) 

[SolihullOwl79]

49 minutes ago, malek said:

We payed fee to Manchester City for Dele Bashiru whom we signed on long term contract and really good (considering his age and experience) wages.

 

At the same time we are all but nailed to loose our own talent who is twice the player and twice as talented as Bashiru is and who is with club since he was 8 (so we should know everything about him by now) due to offering him far worst terms than to Bashiru.

 

If this doesn't point at how dangerously clueless guys running our club are, than I don't know what does.

 

In Shaw, Urhoghide, Penney and Grant we should have had young, talented core of players tied on sensible but long term deals to build around for both next season and long term future. We already lost Grant, and pretty much lost Shaw and I don't have much faith that other two will stay as well.

 

Last transfer window showed that players will be reluctant to join us and that we will have fight on our hands to put together quality squad for next season together. Having in mind who is deciding who goes and leaves I won't set my hopes high.

 

Only good news is that due to salary cap changes in leagues One and Two we will be able to offer much better terms to players from those leagues if we manage to stay up this season.

This close season will be different IF we stay up as there is 12 point penalty hanging over which there was at the start of this season. That was guaranteed to put players off. 

[Bigblueowl]

7 hours ago, SolihullOwl79 said:

It's actually a good thing that so many of the squad are coming to the end of their contract's when the season ends. 

 

It means we're not lumbered with high wages Regardless of staying up / going down. 

 

No clubs are in a position to offer high wages anymore because of the loss of income across the board. 

 

Don't be surprised if a lot of those with no contracts after the summer end up signing on for another season on reduced terms. It's not like other clubs are going to be able to offer much more than we can. Some of them will opt to stay due to settling in the area with their families etc. There will probably be little difference in what other teams can offer, thus not justifying the upheaval of a move. 

Completely agree however I hope that we are working hard on targets for both scenarios! 

 

I honestly feel if we do stay up then we will be able to attract quality players again! 

[TodwickOwl]

If dele bashiru is on 5k a week I’ll show you my @rse

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, malek said:

We payed fee to Manchester City for Dele Bashiru whom we signed on long term contract and really good (considering his age and experience) wages.

 

At the same time we are all but nailed to loose our own talent who is twice the player and twice as talented as Bashiru is and who is with club since he was 8 (so we should know everything about him by now) due to offering him far worst terms than to Bashiru.

 

If this doesn't point at how dangerously clueless guys running our club are, than I don't know what does.

 

In Shaw, Urhoghide, Penney and Grant we should have had young, talented core of players tied on sensible but long term deals to build around for both next season and long term future. We already lost Grant, and pretty much lost Shaw and I don't have much faith that other two will stay as well.

 

Last transfer window showed that players will be reluctant to join us and that we will have fight on our hands to put together quality squad for next season together. Having in mind who is deciding who goes and leaves I won't set my hopes high.

 

Only good news is that due to salary cap changes in leagues One and Two we will be able to offer much better terms to players from those leagues if we manage to stay up this season.

Why did the last transfer window show us that players will be reluctant to join us.?

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

Without parachute payments and, if the itkers are correct, assuming we still have P&S issues then we will have a lower mid-table championship budget next season. We have to cut our cloth accordingly. The likes of Reach, Bannan and Westwood aren’t sustainable. 

We need a new manager. Won’t be cheap but shouldn’t break the bank. 

I’d like to see 4-3-3 as per the Liverpool blueprint. They’ve done ok. 

GK - New Signing / Wildsmith

RB - Palmer / New Signing

LB - New Signing / Galvin

CB - Dunkley / Iorfa / Urhoghide (Contract) / Borner

CM - Luongo / Shaw (Contract) / FSB / New Signing / New Signing / New Signing

Strikers - Harris (Contract) / Green / Windass / New Signing / New Signing / New Signing 

Utility - Hutch / Paterson / New Signing 

Proper clear out giving the new manager the chance to build a balanced squad of hungry players without the baggage of the last 3 years. 

 

[sherlyegg]

5 hours ago, malek said:

In Shaw, Urhoghide, Penney and Grant we should have had young, talented core of players tied on sensible but long term deals

That's all true but what if the young talented players don't want to be tied down on long sensible deals.

Particularly when their agents will be stirring it...have you seen how much he's on and him, much much more than you. Turn it down..i'll find you a better deal, no probs.

 

So in the end, you end up with fringe players (at signing contract time) on big money...or let them go..who may or may not go on to be 1st team regulars.

The ones that do show promise end up on big bucks with the big 6, who have the resources to take multiple gambles.

 

I don't think it's as easy as made out, especially if skint, FFP probs or both.

 

It was stated and not denied, Hirst (advisers) wanted the same wages as an established 1st team player plus 'unrealistic bonuses and add ons.'

 

The club had no choice but to decline.

 

You see the prob here..if agreed, you would have a queue of under 18's / 23's at the door wanting the same or similar.

Hirst had played just 40mins of first team football.

 

[malek]

7 hours ago, sherlyegg said:

That's all true but what if the young talented players don't want to be tied down on long sensible deals.

Particularly when their agents will be stirring it...have you seen how much he's on and him, much much more than you. Turn it down..i'll find you a better deal, no probs.

 

So in the end, you end up with fringe players (at signing contract time) on big money...or let them go..who may or may not go on to be 1st team regulars.

The ones that do show promise end up on big bucks with the big 6, who have the resources to take multiple gambles.

 

I don't think it's as easy as made out, especially if skint, FFP probs or both.

 

It was stated and not denied, Hirst (advisers) wanted the same wages as an established 1st team player plus 'unrealistic bonuses and add ons.'

 

The club had no choice but to decline.

 

You see the prob here..if agreed, you would have a queue of under 18's / 23's at the door wanting the same or similar.

Hirst had played just 40mins of first team football.

 

 

No point in building around anyone who doesn't see his long term future at the club, that much is certain and something that I think we can all agree about. 

 

I might be wrong about it, but from informations we got I don’t think players who came through our academy and U-23 sides wanted Un reasonable wages, but that they weren't treated as other first team players after breaking through and it shows on terms they get offered. I used Dele Bashiru as an example who as player with zero first team experience got offered long term contract on far more money than we offered to any player who came through our own underage sides. How can anyone expect Liam Shaw who must be expected to make starting 11 spot his own this season to agree to sign one year extension on less than Bashiru is on (wan't even mentioned poor Pelupessey or injury prone Luongo). It is not a reasonable offer and it is not realistic expecting him to sign it. 

 

If we offered to Bashiru to make him best paid player in our development squad he would have never signed with us, why expecting Hirst to do?! 

 

[Morepork]

17 hours ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

The salary sport website is interesting. Not sure how accurate it is, but they say...

 

 Sources - Press releases, news & articles, online encyclopedias & databases, industry experts & insiders. We find the information so you don't have to!

 

The teams total wage bill is:

£19,259,500 per year

£370,375 per week

Active Squad:

The teams total wage bill is:
£19,259,500 per year
£370,375 per week
Active Squad:
Player Name     Weekly Wage    Yearly Salary    Age    Position    Nationality
Jordan Rhodes        £35,000    £1,820,000    30    ST (C)    Scotland
Keiren Westwood    £30,000    £1,560,000    35    GK    Ireland
Barry Bannan           £27,000    £1,404,000    30    DM, M (LC)    Scotland
Izzy Brown                £26,000    £1,352,000    23    M (RL), AM (RLC), ST (C)    England
Adam Reach             £23,000    £1,196,000    27    WB (L), M/AM (RLC)    England
Tom Lees                  £22,000    £1,144,000    29    D (C)    England
Joost van Aken        £20,000    £1,040,000    26    D (LC)    Holland
Aden Flint                     £18,000    £936,000    31    D (C)    England
Jack Marriott               £18,000    £936,000    25    ST (C)    England
Callum Paterson         £17,000    £884,000    25    AM (C), ST (C)    Scotland
Massimo Luongo        £14,000    £728,000    27    DM, M/AM (C)    Australia
Julian Börner               £12,000    £624,000    29    D (C)    Germany
Joey Pelupessy           £12,000    £624,000    27    D (C), DM, M (C)    Holland
Liam Palmer                £12,000    £624,000    28    D (RLC), WB (R)    Scotland
Kadeem Harris            £10,000    £520,000    27    WB/M/AM (RL)    England
Cameron Dawson         £9,400    £488,800    25    GK    England
Dominic Iorfa                 £8,400    £436,800    25    D (RC), WB (R)    England
Chey Dunkley                 £8,400    £436,800    28    D (C)    England
Josh Windass                £8,100    £421,200    26    AM (RLC), ST (C)    England
Elias Kachunga              £6,300    £327,600    28    M/AM (R), ST (C)    Germany
Fisayo Dele-Bashiru      £5,300    £275,600    19    M (C)    England
Joe Wildsmith                £5,100    £265,200    24    GK    England
Moses Odubajo             £4,900    £254,800    26    D/WB/M (R)    Nigeria
Matt Penney                   £3,900    £202,800    22    D/WB/M (L)    England
Alex Hunt                             £900    £46,800    20    M (C)    England
Ciaran Brennan                   £830    £43,160    20    D (RC)    Ireland
Korede Adedoyin                £800    £41,600    19    AM (RL), ST (C)    Nigeria
Ben Hughes                         £740    £38,480    20    D (R), M (RC)    England
Osaze Urhoghide                £710    £36,920    20    D (RC)    England
Charles Hagan                    £530    £27,560    18    AM (R), ST (C)    England
Ryan Galvin                          £530    £27,560    19    D (L)    England
Conor Grant                         £530    £27,560    19    M (LC), AM (C)    Ireland
Charlie Reaney                    £530    £27,560    18    D (C)    England
Declan Thompson              £520    £27,040    18    D (RC), WB (R)    England
Isaac Rice                            £470    £24,440    19    D (C)    England
Josh Dawodu                      £460    £23,920    19    D (R)    England
Joshua Render                    £460    £23,920    19    GK    England
Luke Cox                               £440    £22,880    18    D (C)    England
Liam Shaw                           £440    £22,880    19    M (C)    England
Liam Waldock                      £440    £22,880    19    DM, M/AM (C)    England
Luke Jackson                      £440    £22,880    18    GK    England
Lewis Farmer                       £440    £22,880    18    M/AM (C)    England
Filimon Asfha                         £145    £7,540    16    D (C), DM, M (C)    England
Alex Bonnington                     £145    £7,540    17    ST (C)    England
Leojo Davidson                       £145    £7,540    16    D/WB/M (R)    England                                
Caelen Kilheeney                    £145    £7,540    16    DM, M (C)    England
Fuad Sesay                              £145    £7,540    16    D/WB (L)    England
Corey Glaves                            £145    £7,540    17    D (C), DM, M (C)    England
Basile Zottos                            £145    £7,540    17    AM (RLC), ST (C)    Belgium
Luke Hall                                   £145    £7,540    17    AM (C), ST (C)    England
Paulo Aguas                             £145    £7,540    17    M (RLC)    England
Luke Yates                                £145    £7,540    17    D (LC)    England
Charlie Curtis                           £145    £7,540    17    D (R)    England
Will Trueman                            £145    £7,540    17    M/AM (C)    England
Alex Hare                                  £145    £7,540    17    GK    England
Jenson Whitham                     £145    £7,540    16    WB/M (R)    England
Danny Wassell                          £145    £7,540    16    D (C)    Wales
Josh Ashman                           £145    £7,540    16    D (C)    England
Jay Glover                                  £145    £7,540    17    M/AM (C)    England

 

I only wish someone had sent this to DC!!!!  We could have avoided so many issues..... 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Morepork

[Owls Loyal]

I could not agree more.

[kobayashi]

18 hours ago, SolihullOwl79 said:

It's called looking at the silver lining of the dark cloud. Sometimes in life cutting your losses is the best option. 

An analogy for you.

Toxic partner with a great body and ace in the sack but a complete knob head / ***** most of the time. Get rid. Yeah you'll miss the excitement but be relieved of the dross. 

 

Reach- miss the wonder goals and occasional assist, but not the woeful tackling and high maintenance (wages) 

But in your analogy SWFC has to have partners/players. It’s ok binning the one with a great body that does your head in, but unfortunately the ugly replacement that doesn’t have the same benefits, is just as likely to do your head in. 
 

The idea that if only Chansiri could be bothered that he would find players that are good, give 100% constantly, never get injured don’t cost a fee and will play for peanuts is just not true.