Paul Cook

[Kendo Nagasaki]

My opinion for what it’s worth, Pulis is a football man,  Cook is a football man whatever your choice these people have forgot more than most of us will ever think we know it’s down to the style of football us as supporters want to embrace/engage in. 
Lots bang on about Carlos but he had the money to build on a fantastic foundation that Stuart Gray had started to put in place same could be said for Jones about Megsons team, Francis with Atkinsons team (don’t get me started). Even Howard with Jacks team
Whoever comes in now has very little base or structure to build on, our better players are aging and their agents are probably already sounding out other clubs, the academy is poor so we can’t look to that to bail us out.
What’s left are a honest hard working group that’s doing their upmost to prevent relegation.  Whoever takes over now needs the full support of everyone to turn this round WAWAW. 
Cook yes if we haven’t anything in the pot but bl..dy Nora Viera and Fink being in the frame may suggest we have more than is being reported and if so surely these people should be ahead of the list. 
UTO
 

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

2 minutes ago, Royal_D said:

I think it will be Paul Cooks job if he wants it,  will come down to wether him and DC feel they can work together 

 

For me, he’s the wrong choice I don’t think he will find a good working relationship with our owner but I hope to be proved wrong

Good point.  The only issue for me is can he work with the chairman.

 

Other than that he is Idea candidate for me.  Seen people knocking his record at Wigan, but won league 1 with  over 100 points, kept Wigan up next year, 3rd year they brought lots of players in and took time in first half of year to gel, but then in 2nd half of last year their form and play was great and had the owner not done a runner would have finished 13th and been fancied to push for play offs this year.

 

Reminds me of wilder in way that he has worked his way up through leagues and had success at every club.

 

 

[WhiteOwl91]

10 minutes ago, 109Waddle said:

As a player maybe, but who can say they knew much about his management career? I wouldn’t have thought many.

That’s because a majority of people don’t follow foreign football in any level of detail outside of your Real and Barcas of this world?
 

Doesn’t mean they should therefore be dismissed from the conversation just because people have heard of Paul Cook because he’s English 

[Inspector Lestrade]

23 minutes ago, Royal_D said:

I think it will be Paul Cooks job if he wants it,  will come down to wether him and DC feel they can work together 

 

For me, he’s the wrong choice I don’t think he will find a good working relationship with our owner but I hope to be proved wrong

 

Why do  you think PC wouldn't get on with DC?   

[Kendo Nagasaki]

41 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Well yes I’m sure he will be, that’s what good coaches do He didn’t have £60m spent on last seasons team did he

Correct, how much did he pay to make the loans permanent for Costa and Harrison on top of the £60m.. Not sure about the cost of anyone else. 
I really get your point about Bielsa though he is something off the scale and I begrudgingly enjoy watching them but he had quality to work with. We have very little quality and however way we want to watch Wednesday play from what Chansiri said in his ramble this ain’t going to change around quickly.

I would love to watch a free flowing Wednesday and I’m desperate for a Viera or a Fink, will it happen, I f...in hope so. UTO 

[109Waddle]

15 minutes ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

That’s because a majority of people don’t follow foreign football in any level of detail outside of your Real and Barcas of this world?
 

Doesn’t mean they should therefore be dismissed from the conversation just because people have heard of Paul Cook because he’s English 

Absolutely not, I agree. But just because he’s foreign doesn’t make him better than an English manager. Looking at CVs, I know who I would go with if it was me doing the recruiting.

[tonyem]

12 hours ago, Owls-Fan said:

I’d be unsure about Cook after recent British managers struggled in Chansiri’s parameters. Hopefully Cook would be happy for players to be chosen and bought for him and he wouldn’t complain about anything.  Though I doubt that’s how he’s worked before 

Groundhog Day!!!!

[Kendo Nagasaki]

5 minutes ago, 109Waddle said:

Absolutely not, I agree. But just because he’s foreign doesn’t make him better than an English manager. Looking at CVs, I know who I would go with if it was me doing the recruiting.

Who’s that then pal, some one who’s played under one of the most innovative coaches of the 90’s, 00’s in Wenger,, a World Cup winner, an appointed coach under Gurardiola and successful manager of New York City or Cook 

[soldierboyblue]

16 hours ago, Jakes Grandad said:

I'd prefer Pearson but cant see his bluntness going down well with Chansiri. 

That is how he comes across - how he interacts with the Chairman will be entirely different. A bit like how we gob off about our wives and partners all front until it comes to facing them down 

[WhiteOwl91]

I’m not suggesting because someone’s foreign they’re better, I’m suggesting that a number of their CVs are better 

[Emerson Thome]

When looking at a manager, take a look at how they got on at their previous clubs. They either 1) Succeed - improve the team and leave it in a stronger position than when they arrived, 2) Do an average job - maybe a short term bounce, but club ends up where it was before, 3) Fail - make the team worse.

 

This is why I would prefer Cook over Fink. Agree that Fink has had higher profile jobs - but seems to be a choice between a bigger name on his way down, and a small name on his way up....

 

Cook's CV:

 

Sligo Rovers (2007-2011 seasons), 203 games, 47% win ratio

Before he arrived - first season back in the top flight, mid-table with 40 pts.

Under Cook - three seasons of consolidation (41, 48 and 43 points) followed by two excellent seasons - 3rd with 63 points and won both cups (League and FA), 2nd with 73 points and won Irish FA Cup.

Succeeded

 

Accrington Stanley (Feb 2012-Oct 2012), 33 games, 24% win ratio

Before he arrived - in the playoffs, arrived in Feb 2012 in 7th position on edge of playoffs - only 14 points from 18 games, dropped to 14th in league. Next seasons, only 17 points from first 15 games (16th in league) - left to manage Chesterfield.

Failed

 

Chesterfield (2012-2015), 145 games, 45% win ratio

Before he arrived - relegated from League One previous season, 18 points from 14 games, 13th in League Two

Under Cook - First season improved from 13th in Nov to 8th in League Two, second season = won League Two title (lost in final of Football League Trophy), next season 6th in League One (lost in play-offs to Preston). Took a midtable L2 team to promotion chasing in L1. Left to manage Portsmouth.

Succeeded

 

Portsmouth (2015-2017), 107 games, 49% win ratio

Before he arrived - midtable League Two - 16th and 13th the year before.

Under Cook - Finished 6th in his first season in charge (lost play-off semi to Plymouth) and champions in first place in second season, clinching title on final day of season with a 6-1 win. Left to manage Wigan.

Succeeded

 

 

Wigan (2017-2020), 155 games, 41% win ratio

Before he arrived - relegated in 23rd position from the Championship.

Under Cook - Returned to Championship as Champions in first season with 98 points, knocked out Premier League Bournemouth (3-0), West Ham (2-0) and Man City (1-0) in FA Cup. Second season, consolidated position in the league with 52 points (18th place) third season, improved to win 59 points in 46 games, which would have been 13th place if the Chairman hadn't placed the club into administration. Resigned due to the off-field issues.

Succeeded

 

 

Fink's CV:

Ingolstadt (2008-2009), 44 games, 36% win ratio

Before he arrived - on course for promotion in 3rd tier of German football.

Under Fink - Promoted to Bundesliga 2. Won only 6 of 26 games and sacked in April with club second to last. They were relegated in May second to last.

Average job.

 

 

Basel (2009-2011), 119 games, 64% win ratio

Before he arrived - 3rd in Swiss Super League, Champions the season before.

Under Fink - Champions both seasons in the Swiss Super League and won Swiss Cup in his first season too. Knocked out in group stage of Europe League in first season (behind Roma and Fulham), and in group stage of Champions League in second (6 pts, did get 3-1 win away at Roma).

Succeeded

 

 

Hamburg (2011-2013), 68 games, 34% win ratio

Before he arrived - 8th in Bundesliga the previous season, 7th the season before. 7pts from 9 games in 2011/12 season when he was appointed.

Under Fink - finished 15th, avoiding the relegation play-offs by 1 place and 5 points (picked up 29 points in 25 games). Next season finished 7th (knocked out of cup by 3rd division team). Helped bring through Son Heung-Min. Next season, sacked with 4 points from 5 games in relegation zone. Hamburg would go on to automatic relegation by 1 point and survive a relegation play-off (at that point Hamburg were the only team never to have been relegated since the Bundesliga was formed in the 60s).

Failed

 

 

APOEL (Jan 2015 - May 2015), 22 games, 50% win ratio

Before he arrived - Cypriot treble winners the previous season, and Champions 4 of the previous 5 season. Top with 32 points from 15 games.

Under Fink - picked up 26 points from 15 games, loss on 10th May meant their lead in the league had been cut with an effective title decider the next week. Sacked before the match (his replacement got a draw, enough to hold on to title). Got through to Cypriot Cup Final (his replacement won the final)

Average job

 

 

Austria Vienna (2015-2018), 123 games, 49% win ratio

Before he arrived - 7th (30 points off title), season before that 4th (27 points off title) in the 10-team Austrian Bundesliga.

Under Fink - 3rd (15 points off title), 2nd (18 points off title) and then 7th (40 points off title). No success in the domestic cups, two European campaigns - first, finished bottom of Europa League group (Roma, but also a Czech and Romanian team) and bottom again in Europe league (Milan, but a Greek and Croatian team as well). So initial success, but tailed off badly in third season with just 27 points from 24 games and no cup success.

Average job

 

 

Grasshoppers (April 2018- March 2019), 35 games, 29% win ratio

Before he arrived - 6th in the 10-team Swiss Super League in April. Season before they had finished 8th.

Under Fink - Rest of 2017-18 season he picked up 7 points from 6 games, dropped to 9th (1 place and 4 points above relegation). Next season, sacked in March, rock bottom with 18 points from 25 games. Knocked out by 3rd tier team in the cup. Went on to get relegated.

Failed

 

 

Vissel Kobe (June 2019-2020), 49 games, 45% win ratio

Before he arrived - 10th, before that 9th in 18-team J-league in the two previous seasons. 14 games in, they were in 13th place with 14 points from 14 games.

Under Fink - finished 8th in the 2019 season, picking up 33 points from the last 20 games. Failed in J-League Cup (both seasons), but did win the Emperor's Cup (Japanese FA Cup) in 2019. This meant they also played in the Japanese Super Cup (Charity Shield), winning on penalties after a 0-0 draw. 17 games in to the 2020 season, in 10th place (20 points from 17 games) he resigned. So, average in the league, although success in winning the FA Cup - although, should be noted with one of the biggest spending teams in the league (including Andres Iniesta, David Villa, Lukas Podolski and Thomas Vermaelen on the payroll)

Average job

[WhiteOwl91]

16 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

When looking at a manager, take a look at how they got on at their previous clubs. They either 1) Succeed - improve the team and leave it in a stronger position than when they arrived, 2) Do an average job - maybe a short term bounce, but club ends up where it was before, 3) Fail - make the team worse.

 

This is why I would prefer Cook over Fink. Agree that Fink has had higher profile jobs - but seems to be a choice between a bigger name on his way down, and a small name on his way up....

 

Cook's CV:

 

Sligo Rovers (2007-2011 seasons), 203 games, 47% win ratio

Before he arrived - first season back in the top flight, mid-table with 40 pts.

Under Cook - three seasons of consolidation (41, 48 and 43 points) followed by two excellent seasons - 3rd with 63 points and won both cups (League and FA), 2nd with 73 points and won Irish FA Cup.

Succeeded

 

Accrington Stanley (Feb 2012-Oct 2012), 33 games, 24% win ratio

Before he arrived - in the playoffs, arrived in Feb 2012 in 7th position on edge of playoffs - only 14 points from 18 games, dropped to 14th in league. Next seasons, only 17 points from first 15 games (16th in league) - left to manage Chesterfield.

Failed

 

Chesterfield (2012-2015), 145 games, 45% win ratio

Before he arrived - relegated from League One previous season, 18 points from 14 games, 13th in League Two

Under Cook - First season improved from 13th in Nov to 8th in League Two, second season = won League Two title (lost in final of Football League Trophy), next season 6th in League One (lost in play-offs to Preston). Took a midtable L2 team to promotion chasing in L1. Left to manage Portsmouth.

Succeeded

 

Portsmouth (2015-2017), 107 games, 49% win ratio

Before he arrived - midtable League Two - 16th and 13th the year before.

Under Cook - Finished 6th in his first season in charge (lost play-off semi to Plymouth) and champions in first place in second season, clinching title on final day of season with a 6-1 win. Left to manage Wigan.

Succeeded

 

 

Wigan (2017-2020), 155 games, 41% win ratio

Before he arrived - relegated in 23rd position from the Championship.

Under Cook - Returned to Championship as Champions in first season with 98 points, knocked out Premier League Bournemouth (3-0), West Ham (2-0) and Man City (1-0) in FA Cup. Second season, consolidated position in the league with 52 points (18th place) third season, improved to win 59 points in 46 games, which would have been 13th place if the Chairman hadn't placed the club into administration. Resigned due to the off-field issues.

Succeeded

 

 

Fink's CV:

Ingolstadt (2008-2009), 44 games, 36% win ratio

Before he arrived - on course for promotion in 3rd tier of German football.

Under Fink - Promoted to Bundesliga 2. Won only 6 of 26 games and sacked in April with club second to last. They were relegated in May second to last.

Average job.

 

 

Basel (2009-2011), 119 games, 64% win ratio

Before he arrived - 3rd in Swiss Super League, Champions the season before.

Under Fink - Champions both seasons in the Swiss Super League and won Swiss Cup in his first season too. Knocked out in group stage of Europe League in first season (behind Roma and Fulham), and in group stage of Champions League in second (6 pts, did get 3-1 win away at Roma).

Succeeded

 

 

Hamburg (2011-2013), 68 games, 34% win ratio

Before he arrived - 8th in Bundesliga the previous season, 7th the season before. 7pts from 9 games in 2011/12 season when he was appointed.

Under Fink - finished 15th, avoiding the relegation play-offs by 1 place and 5 points (picked up 29 points in 25 games). Next season finished 7th (knocked out of cup by 3rd division team). Helped bring through Son Heung-Min. Next season, sacked with 4 points from 5 games in relegation zone. Hamburg would go on to automatic relegation by 1 point and survive a relegation play-off (at that point Hamburg were the only team never to have been relegated since the Bundesliga was formed in the 60s).

Failed

 

 

APOEL (Jan 2015 - May 2015), 22 games, 50% win ratio

Before he arrived - Cypriot treble winners the previous season, and Champions 4 of the previous 5 season. Top with 32 points from 15 games.

Under Fink - picked up 26 points from 15 games, loss on 10th May meant their lead in the league had been cut with an effective title decider the next week. Sacked before the match (his replacement got a draw, enough to hold on to title). Got through to Cypriot Cup Final (his replacement won the final)

Average job

 

 

Austria Vienna (2015-2018), 123 games, 49% win ratio

Before he arrived - 7th (30 points off title), season before that 4th (27 points off title) in the 10-team Austrian Bundesliga.

Under Fink - 3rd (15 points off title), 2nd (18 points off title) and then 7th (40 points off title). No success in the domestic cups, two European campaigns - first, finished bottom of Europa League group (Roma, but also a Czech and Romanian team) and bottom again in Europe league (Milan, but a Greek and Croatian team as well). So initial success, but tailed off badly in third season with just 27 points from 24 games and no cup success.

Average job

 

 

Grasshoppers (April 2018- March 2019), 35 games, 29% win ratio

Before he arrived - 6th in the 10-team Swiss Super League in April. Season before they had finished 8th.

Under Fink - Rest of 2017-18 season he picked up 7 points from 6 games, dropped to 9th (1 place and 4 points above relegation). Next season, sacked in March, rock bottom with 18 points from 25 games. Knocked out by 3rd tier team in the cup. Went on to get relegated.

Failed

 

 

Vissel Kobe (June 2019-2020), 49 games, 45% win ratio

Before he arrived - 10th, before that 9th in 18-team J-league in the two previous seasons. 14 games in, they were in 13th place with 14 points from 14 games.

Under Fink - finished 8th in the 2019 season, picking up 33 points from the last 20 games. Failed in J-League Cup (both seasons), but did win the Emperor's Cup (Japanese FA Cup) in 2019. This meant they also played in the Japanese Super Cup (Charity Shield), winning on penalties after a 0-0 draw. 17 games in to the 2020 season, in 10th place (20 points from 17 games) he resigned. So, average in the league, although success in winning the FA Cup - although, should be noted with one of the biggest spending teams in the league (including Andres Iniesta, David Villa, Lukas Podolski and Thomas Vermaelen on the payroll)

Average job

Hamburg you mention about being sacked after 5 games and them being in relegation zone at end of season, which is a bit harsh to reference that because he wasn’t in charge for 29 of those games. 
 

Also Cook at Portsmouth was at a massive club in that league with the budget to get them up, they just needed to settle down off the field after some pretty turbulent years. It was absolutely a matter of time, albeit he got the job done of course which you can’t take away

To counter the Fink point at Kobe, it was the first silverware they’d won, so I’d argue slightly better than just average and he left for personal reasons didn’t he?  

[Emerson Thome]

17 minutes ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

Hamburg you mention about being sacked after 5 games and them being in relegation zone at end of season, which is a bit harsh to reference that because he wasn’t in charge for 29 of those games. 
 

Also Cook at Portsmouth was at a massive club in that league with the budget to get them up, they just needed to settle down off the field after some pretty turbulent years. It was absolutely a matter of time, albeit he got the job done of course which you can’t take away

To counter the Fink point at Kobe, it was the first silverware they’d won, so I’d argue slightly better than just average and he left for personal reasons didn’t he?  

I hope I've put enough context in the post to explain my judgements. True Pompey were a very big club for League Two, but as you say with all the financial turmoil and the fact they finished 16th and 13th the two previous seasons, it was a tricky job. Similar to Wednesday in many respects, albeit at a lower level.

 

I think at the time Hamburg were expected to challenge for European football - admittedly after a sluggish start in the first season when he was appointed, but he failed to lift them up the league in his first season and was not on course to do that in his third. Those two and a bit seasons actually read very similar to David Pleat's record at Wednesday. I think that has to be seen as a fail.

 

I'm not sure why he left Kobe - and yes, kudos for winning the Emperor's Cup. Although league performances have to be the better barometer - and with heavy investment in the team, he ultimately took over a team in 10th and left them in 13th, picking up just a point per game.

 

So I would argue his only out-and-out successful job as a manager came a decade ago.

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

9 hours ago, 109Waddle said:

In all honesty, who had heard of Fink before this??? Why haven’t other English clubs looked at Poyet in the last few years? Viera wouldn’t come to Wednesday and his management record doesn’t suggest to me that he’s the right fit for a relegation scrap with an unbalanced mediocre championship squad with a challenging owner to contend with.

 

DC gives rolling contracts by the sound of things so the next appointment doesn’t have to be the ‘one’. It just needs to keep us up imo.

I had but then again it’s because he was in charge of Vissel Kobe!

[109Waddle]

8 hours ago, Kendo Nagasaki said:

Who’s that then pal, some one who’s played under one of the most innovative coaches of the 90’s, 00’s in Wenger,, a World Cup winner, an appointed coach under Gurardiola and successful manager of New York City or Cook 

Playing and managing are completely different things. Coaching and managing are completely different. A successful period as manager in New York is a plus for me though.
 

That’s my point, you have to look at the experience and evaluate what the candidate can bring to the role. Paul Cook has to be at least considered imo.

[WhiteOwl91]

18 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

I hope I've put enough context in the post to explain my judgements. True Pompey were a very big club for League Two, but as you say with all the financial turmoil and the fact they finished 16th and 13th the two previous seasons, it was a tricky job. Similar to Wednesday in many respects, albeit at a lower level.

 

I think at the time Hamburg were expected to challenge for European football - admittedly after a sluggish start in the first season when he was appointed, but he failed to lift them up the league in his first season and was not on course to do that in his third. Those two and a bit seasons actually read very similar to David Pleat's record at Wednesday. I think that has to be seen as a fail.

 

I'm not sure why he left Kobe - and yes, kudos for winning the Emperor's Cup. Although league performances have to be the better barometer - and with heavy investment in the team, he ultimately took over a team in 10th and left them in 13th, picking up just a point per game.

 

So I would argue his only out-and-out successful job as a manager came a decade ago.

I do agree it was a very well thought out post with a lot of good context behind your views. 
 

Whilst I would prefer the likes of Fink this time round, I’m certainly not trying to insinuate Cook would be a bad appointment. If he came in I’d be 100% behind him because he has a decent record. 
 

it will be interesting to see if any other names start to appear this week

[Kendo Nagasaki]

6 minutes ago, 109Waddle said:

Playing and managing are completely different things. Coaching and managing are completely different. A successful period as manager in New York is a plus for me though.
 

That’s my point, you have to look at the experience and evaluate what the candidate can bring to the role. Paul Cook has to be at least considered imo.

Yep agree Cook should be considered I have no problem with that at all and he is probably the best we can get. If Viera, Fink, Lage or Pearson are serious contenders though then these would be my preferred choices. UTO 

[mcmigo]

I wouldn’t say cook was a ‘ success’ by relegating Wigan last season , but I will entertain the argument for now.

 

even if you add back those points, cook got a massive 3 more points than Garry monk did last season and somehow that is a success for him and failure for monk ?

 

there needs to be a long , hard look at this Paul cook band wagon. This all smacks of Paul Jewell Mark two to me . 
 

 

[mcmigo]

5 minutes ago, Kendo Nagasaki said:

Yep agree Cook should be considered I have no problem with that at all and he is probably the best we can get. If Viera, Fink, Lage or Pearson are serious contenders though then these would be my preferred choices. UTO 

Pearson is a complete car crash of a manager. The one job in the last few years he has lasted more than 6 months  in was leading a random Belgian team to the bottom of division 2.

 

 

[Jim]

9 hours ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

Why would he be terrible? 

 

Why would he be better than the recent managers we’ve had? Harsh or not, he still got relegated in his last job from this level and before you say it wasn’t his fault, which it wasn’t. He’s inheriting a similar situation here.