Are our players useless?

[WalthamOwl]

Personally I think the players are selling the fans and the club well short of what they are capable of. Even without a point deduction we would be 4th from bottom. Really is shocking when you look at some of the other teams in this league. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by WalthamOwl

[Swiss Toni]

No professional footballer is useless. They’ve conned a lot of people to get where they are if so. It’s all just a matter of opinions and fine margins. 
 

All players in the modern game play to strict roles and tactics set out by the coaching team. If they deviate from that then they may find themselves dropped indefinitely. Most players I would imagine don’t necessarily like the jobs  they’ve been asked to do  as it restricts their natural game but that’s as an individual and.not as a team.

 

There’s also some that land lucky with the players, structure and style of play. This then creates a positive vibe. I personally feel this is what happened in the first season under Carlos. We were dark horses, caught teams predominantly on the break and things seemed to fall into place. The following season (although we finished in the playoffs again) that same structure and style didn’t work as teams sat back.

 

I would imagine that it takes 3 years and 5 or 6 transfer windows to get it right (unless you land lucky) but managers aren’t given that long in football these days.

 

A good player example would be Iorfa. He had started to blossom this last year mainly at CB but I get the feeling that under a Pulis he will play RB to add more height to our defensive and offensive set play duties.

[Mike Hunt]

1 hour ago, Dutch McLovin said:

Westwood - Past his best but still best we got

Palmer - Not good enough, never has been, improved but still a League One player

van Aken - Again improved but not good enough for the championship

Paterson - Defender playing up front but not a good defender

Flint - Looks decent so far. However at 31 and had a loss of form at Cardiff how long will he be decent for ?

Harris - Works hard but is a one trick pony, gone downhill rapidly after a impressive first 6 months.

Pelupessy - Never been good enough a waist of a spot in the squad

Marriott - Looked poor so far but in a poor team, injured now dont expect to see him again.

Bannan - Good. Not been used correctly for years but has carried us. Keep.

Reach - Regressed from the highs of a couple of years ago but still is one of the only ones capable of creating anything. Should have sold.

Borner - Inconsistent. Started well tailed off but looks to have got his form back. Useful at this level. 

Penney - Needs a run of 8-10 games. I like what ive seen but hes never been given a fair crack. Might not be good enough but give him a go.

Lees - Passed his best but still a decent defender

Dele-Bashiri - Young, needs time.

Windass - Ok. Works hard and does seem to know where the net is but no where near the quality we have had. Squad player.

Rhodes - Lost it.

Odubajo - Decent. Had a bad year last year but has been on of the better players this year, is he better than Hunt tho ? Nope.

Dunkley - Madness all i can say.

Brown - Good player could evolve into very good CM player at this level if he can avoid injuries

Dawson - Hasnt progressed to number 1 as he should have. Not all his fault but dont think he'll make it now.

Wildsmith - See Dawson

Iorfa - Quality CH. Keep. Build team.

Kachunga - Not good enough.

Good summary, pretty much agree but correct me if I am wrong but didn’t you used to constantly slag Bannan off ? 

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, Swiss Toni said:

No professional footballer is useless. They’ve conned a lot of people to get where they are if so. It’s all just a matter of opinions and fine margins. 
 

All players in the modern game play to strict roles and tactics set out by the coaching team. If they deviate from that then they may find themselves dropped indefinitely. Most players I would imagine don’t necessarily like the jobs  they’ve been asked to do  as it restricts their natural game but that’s as an individual and.not as a team.

 

There’s also some that land lucky with the players, structure and style of play. This then creates a positive vibe. I personally feel this is what happened in the first season under Carlos. We were dark horses, caught teams predominantly on the break and things seemed to fall into place. The following season (although we finished in the playoffs again) that same structure and style didn’t work as teams sat back.

 

I would imagine that it takes 3 years and 5 or 6 transfer windows to get it right (unless you land lucky) but managers aren’t given that long in football these days.

 

A good player example would be Iorfa. He had started to blossom this last year mainly at CB but I get the feeling that under a Pulis he will play RB to add more height to our defensive and offensive set play duties.

Re Iorfa, I think you may be right, but that forgetting how uncomfortable he looked at full back, and also the players desire to play centre back Given his performances at CB, and the recognition of his qualities there, I can’t imagine Iorfa will be too happy about the switch Is that not just another case of a coach failing to get the best out of a player?

[Swiss Toni]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Re Iorfa, I think you may be right, but that forgetting how uncomfortable he looked at full back, and also the players desire to play centre back Given his performances at CB, and the recognition of his qualities there, I can’t imagine Iorfa will be too happy about the switch Is that not just another case of a coach failing to get the best out of a player?

It’s like I said, a lot players don’t like the roles they are being asked to do but the manager sees it as a greater good for the team and for results. We are a LONG way off having a harmonious squad like the first year under Carlos. I still think he landed lucky in that sense but feel more confident of Pulis getting there - given time.

[mcmigo]

Looking back at this thread with a bit of daylight between the poor game vs Preston and today:

 

are the players poor? I am not so sure, not in all aspects.

 

The defenders and goalkeepers are championship standard.  They have mistakes in them, but so do most players at this level.  There are clear technical issues with one or two in the defensive squad (Van Aken, Dawson).

 

Our chance creation isnt as terrible at it sounds.  In the last 5 games under Monk we took 57 shots at goal - nearly a dozen a game, or one every 8 mins or so.  we scored only one of those shots - a penalty by Bannan. That is horrific and got Monk the sack.  

We are not horrific, but we cant score.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Dutch McLovin]

42 minutes ago, hugeowl said:

Good summary, pretty much agree but correct me if I am wrong but didn’t you used to constantly slag Bannan off ? 

Yeah I did, but that was when we were good and I disagreed with how he played, too deep in the back 4 and everything having to go through him and then when it wasnt working he went missing but shouted a lot. Not all his fault I know but thats why i slagged him. Not his actual ability. In his first season he was brilliant. I wanted us and him to play like that but managers and Bannan seemed to want different. 

[Guest Hornsby]

With a holiday camp culture, easy to fall into Butlins mode.

 

Can you imagine Mourinho letting Paxo travel with team and mix on match days?

 

Or Baz drive from Brum and Westy leave Lancashire every day? 

[torryowl]

4 hours ago, adelphi1867 said:

That's because 90% of 'Carlos's' players were brought in by Stuart Gray, Coached By Stuart Gray, Conditioned by Stuart Gray.

10 of the 18 men who made up the play off squad were signed after gray left ......2 others  were signed before he was manager ........so its more like 33%

[pat blondeau]

This is the worst Wednesday squad for years.

 

Last time we were relegated in 2009/10 the squad was poor but still had the likes of Grant, Buxton, Spurr, Gray, Beevers, Jermaine Johnson, Varney, Clarke and Tudgay.

 

I think most of those would get in our current team... that’s how bad we are.

 

And we scored 49 goals in the last relegation season... we’ll do well to match that this season 

[gurujuan]

4 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

This is the worst Wednesday squad for years.

 

Last time we were relegated in 2009/10 the squad was poor but still had the likes of Grant, Buxton, Spurr, Gray, Beevers, Jermaine Johnson, Varney, Clarke and Tudgay.

 

I think most of those would get in our current team... that’s how bad we are.

 

And we scored 49 goals in the last relegation season... we’ll do well to match that this season 

Can’t agree with this, we lack decent front players, that’s all. Get a half decent manager in and he could sort this out in one window 

[pat blondeau]

4 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Can’t agree with this, we lack decent front players, that’s all. Get a half decent manager in and he could sort this out in one window 

It’d take some window to sort this out. And getting players in January is always difficult as the only players available are generally out of favour at their club.

 

And then factor in that Bannan, Reach, Rhodes, Lees, Westwood, Harris, Odubajo, van Aken and Penney are all out of contract in June so either need re-signing or replacing.

 

In the last two years how many player contracts have been renewed? I can only think of Dawson and Pelupessy so I’d expect most of that list to leave for nothing in June

[gurujuan]

7 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

It’d take some window to sort this out. And getting players in January is always difficult as the only players available are generally out of favour at their club.

 

And then factor in that Bannan, Reach, Rhodes, Lees, Westwood, Harris, Odubajo, van Aken and Penney are all out of contract in June so either need re-signing or replacing.

 

In the last two years how many player contracts have been renewed? I can only think of Dawson and Pelupessy so I’d expect most of that list to leave for nothing in June

Although Pelupessy probably surprised you. We’ve just had a window where we’ve brought in 8 players, and only one of those strengthened the starting eleven. Give me that sort of leeway, and I could do a better job than Monk did. Add a couple of strikers, a left back and another midfielder, and that’s a top half squad. 

[malek]

Most professional players these days are quite good if you ask them to do what "they are good at" (if that makes sense).

 

But after all the millions spent and everything we should have had much better and better balanced set of players under contracts.

 

If we were in dire need of funds, only players I could see us getting some money for are Bannan and Iorfa. Says a lot, really...

[pat blondeau]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Although Pelupessy probably surprised you. We’ve just had a window where we’ve brought in 8 players, and only one of those strengthened the starting eleven. Give me that sort of leeway, and I could do a better job than Monk did. Add a couple of strikers, a left back and another midfielder, and that’s a top half squad. 

Well I hope you’re right but (with our budget) I think even Pulis with his experience and contacts will struggle to find players available in January that have the right quality. So the squad we have now is mainly what we’ll be relying on for the rest of the season.

 

And next summer (regardless of what league we’re in) with all the players out of contract the squad will have a complete overhaul anyway 

[adelphi1867]

12 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Although Pelupessy probably surprised you. We’ve just had a window where we’ve brought in 8 players, and only one of those strengthened the starting eleven. Give me that sort of leeway, and I could do a better job than Monk did. Add a couple of strikers, a left back and another midfielder, and that’s a top half squad. 

Managing a Football team is so easy, I don't know why more people don't do it.

Go on then tell us who you would bring in and why they would come here.

[adelphi1867]

1 hour ago, Hornsby said:

With a holiday camp culture, easy to fall into Butlins mode.

 

Can you imagine Mourinho letting Paxo travel with team and mix on match days?

 

Or Baz drive from Brum and Westy leave Lancashire every day? 

The best Goal keeper the club has had in the last 60 years lived and traveled from London to Sheffield each week.

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

Well I hope you’re right but (with our budget) I think even Pulis with his experience and contacts will struggle to find players available in January that have the right quality. So the squad we have now is mainly what we’ll be relying on for the rest of the season.

 

And next summer (regardless of what league we’re in) with all the players out of contract the squad will have a complete overhaul anyway 

I wouldn’t trust Pulis to renovate the squad With him in charge, it’s likely to be more of the same. It is possible to get what we need, but you have to shop wisely, as Bruce did. He brought in Iorfa for less than what we paid for Windass and Paterson. 

[trevdi9]

31 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

The best Goal keeper the club has had in the last 60 years lived and traveled from London to Sheffield each week.

yep but he did the business 

 

[Guest Hornsby]

On 24/11/2020 at 17:40, adelphi1867 said:

The best Goal keeper the club has had in the last 60 years lived and traveled from London to Sheffield each week.

Springett didn't travel distance each day.