Are our players useless?

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

47 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

We're less than the sum of our parts because the parts were assembled with no coherent plan or system in place.

 

In defence, we have some decent centre-backs, but some suit a two whilst others suit a three. We have Palmer and Odubajo as right-backs, and no recognised left-back to speak of...so van Aken gets a game there because he's left-footed.

 

Bannan remains our most naturally talented midfielder, but he no longer has the teammates around him to help him excel as we had in Carvalhal's first couple of seasons, so he struggles to impose himself on the game quite often these days. Luongo is our best defensive midfielder, but as soon as he's injured, we have to turn to Pelupessy, who offers only a fraction of his skillset. Brown is a good player, but I'm not sure where he fits alongside the others.

 

Out wide (assuming we're playing with wide midfielders again now), we have Reach, who's been shifted all over the pitch in recent years and has suffered as a result, and Harris, who offers pace and commitment, but no real quality. If either of them are out, then we have to move a full-back forwards or give Kachunga a run out on the flank.

 

Up front, we appear to need a target-man, but only have Paterson who fits the mould, and even then it's a pretty loose fit - he has some attributes, but he's no Fletcher with his back to goal, is he? Beyond that, we have Windass, who seems more of an attacking midfielder / number 10, and Rhodes, who looks like he belongs in another team entirely much of the time, but we have to ask him to run around and close down opposition defenders as there's nobody else to throw on up there.

 

In a nutshell: we have a Frankenstein's monster of a squad, made up of the dying embers of a once-strong team and topped up with cheap signings and loan players, none of whom seem to fit into a coherent whole.

 

How some of our fans ever thought we might be challenging for the top six this season, I have no idea!

 

Absolutely fantastic post. Thank you. Gives plenty to think about. Blend and balance is as important as the components. Who do you see as responsible for this Frankenstein’s monster? 

[Lincowl]

4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Not really too much to cope with no 

But I do wonder what players and managers say about the way our club is run to other people when they leave here and are asked what it was like

I wonder how many 'stories' there are

I'm sure we're not the only club like this - I imagine there will be stories from behind the scenes of every single club in the whole world

But I bet there are some absolutely unbelievable ones about Sheffield Wednesday in the last five years.

Undr The Cosh had some. Clinton Morrison boasting about how quick he could get someone shot was a main one, arguing with coke over who could get it done first, threatening to shoot opposition players, fights between reda and otsemobor. JJ and Leon Clarke were the worst in the dressing room according to Micky Gray. Leon Knight obviously went through like a hurricane of stupidity.

[scilly owl]

Great post title... “ Are our players useless “

Flippin classic.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Lincowl said:

Undr The Cosh had some. Clinton Morrison boasting about how quick he could get someone shot was a main one, arguing with coke over who could get it done first, threatening to shoot opposition players, fights between reda and otsemobor. JJ and Leon Clarke were the worst in the dressing room according to Micky Gray. Leon Knight obviously went through like a hurricane of stupidity.

I need to see/hear this - this is why I love under The Cosh - it's amazing

I bet there's some totally whacky ones about this era though - the last 5 years - I bet there is stuff that our fans would simply refuse to believe

 

 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, scilly owl said:

Great post title... “ Are our players useless “

Flippin classic.

 

To be fair that's the question asked in the OP

 

[Guest Therealrealist]

11 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said:

We have a squad that are massively underperforming imo. Yes they aren’t the best but imo are capable of a lot more than the form shown this season.  

I don’t think they are tbh

[Dexter Morgan]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

My honest opinion that I've said and repeated since this squad was put together is that this is the weakest squad we've ever assembled in the Championship, and that in years to come we'll look back affectionately on it as so, and laugh at the players we once signed this season.

It's on a par with the days of Gary Taylor Fletcher and Co.

And I'm not being emotional or exaggerating

It really is that bad

On paper, on the pitch, and on the results we've got as a result of assembling these people as our squad

That's not Garry Monk's fault either by the way.

Nor is it a case of bring a new manager, kick them up the backside and stride on - that simply won't happen either.

What we are seeing is a direct result of what we did with FFP etc - meaning we can't splash out and bring quality in

We're relying on hand me downs, clothes with holes in them, shoes with no soles, and defenders with one leg.

the squad that got relegated on the final day v palace was ten times worse than this 

[Guest Therealrealist]

1 minute ago, scilly owl said:

Great post title... “ Are our players useless “

Flippin classic.

It’s a question asked..and I would say yes

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Dexter Morgan said:

the squad that got relegated on the final day v palace was ten times worse than this 

 

 

 

I beg to differ

Imagine in ten years time looking back on Marriott, Paterson, and a defender with one leg who we've never seen

[SallyCinnamon]

See I think the squad is average but I honestly don’t think it’s as bad as people make out. Sure there’s some poo , but there’s some quality too. We have to ask why we haven’t been able to mould them into a team capable of grinding out results.

 

Going through today’s lineup:

 

Westwood - probably past it, but according to the manager is one of the best keepers in the division.

 

Palmer - Say he’s crap all you want but he’s played consistently at this level for a good number of years and is a Scotland international. Part of the best Scottish side for 20 years.

 

Lees - I really don’t know anymore. I think he’s a good defender but he’s needed a change of scenery so badly. He always looked better in a settled back four. Something we’ve not had since the Carlos days. 
 

Borner - Again start of last season he looked an absolute steal. Has struggled past 6 months or so under Monk. But today I thought he actually had a really good game. Perhaps one we shouldn’t right off?

 

Van Aken - Had a couple of decent games under Monk, before that was completely written off. He’s certainly not a left back, probably not good enough.

 

Odubajo - Not good enough.

 

Bannan - One of the best players in the division. Puts tin hat on because he didn’t play very well today.

 

Luongo - Good player at this level, just needs to stay fit.

 

Reach - God knows what’s happened but has proven to be a very good player at this level for us. Since Monk came in, his confidence has been shot. Again one who probably needs a change of scenery.

 

Paterson - People quick to say his poo after a handful of games. But has been promoted out of his league, played in the Prem two years ago and is a Scotland international. Let’s not right him off already? 
 

Windass - We all wanted him to sign in the summer. Looks like he has something in him but not seen enough of it this season.

 

I really don’t think it’s as simple as ‘these players are crap’. We’ve had 5 different managers in the space of three years, a huge change in personnel and injuries left right and centre. The club is broken and it shows on the pitch. These aren’t terrible players - they’re players short of confidence, ideas and belief which is a product of the environment around them in my opinion.

 

I really think Pulis is the man to get this team organised. Yes they aren’t as good as the squad we had under Carlos, and that is perhaps what makes us think they’re all not good enough. Comparing them to that isn’t fair in my view. 
 

This is not the worst squad we’ve ever had at this level. Not by any stretch of the imagination. 

[jonnyowl]

Just so many players that are no where near good enough!

 

We've got good center backs 3 good central midfilders, 1 decent right back, plus 3 average players in Reach, Harris and Widnass.

 

Jury out on Westwood, Wildsmith is OK Dawson is usless.

 

We carry 4 players in every first 11 and that only increases when subs come on!

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

54 minutes ago, meggoisgod said:

Very poor players, no leaders, no strength and no game plan

 

But it's ok as they keep telling us their is lots of quality in the squad

 

Borner and lluongo need to be the spine..the rest meh

Have we signed poor players or taken decent players and diminished them? Again I’m not on the wind up but I don’t remember universal condemnation of the players we’ve signed at the time we signed them. I’ve been back over old posts. In fact most were cautiously optimistic. Perhaps we underestimated the likes of Fletcher, FF and Fix when they were here? 

 

[Grimesthorpian]

Bring Big Dave back.

That’s how bad it’s getting.

[heppers]

17 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Not really too much to cope with no 

But I do wonder what players and managers say about the way our club is run to other people when they leave here and are asked what it was like

I wonder how many 'stories' there are

I'm sure we're not the only club like this - I imagine there will be stories from behind the scenes of every single club in the whole world

But I bet there are some absolutely unbelievable ones about Sheffield Wednesday in the last five years.

We never improve anyone

[SallyCinnamon]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

I beg to differ

Imagine in ten years time looking back on Marriott, Paterson, and a defender with one leg who we've never seen

It’s really not as black and white as this. You’re judging Marriott and Paterson playing in a squad short of confidence under a manager who had well and truly lost the plot.

 

Marriott and Paterson have both scored goals at this level. One has been promoted from this level as little as 2 years ago and the other fired his team to a play off final only to lose to Villa last year.

 

They’ve proven themselves at this level so to just dismiss them as crap really isn’t fair and is very short sighted.

Edited November 21, 2020 by SallyCinnamon

[Dexter Morgan]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

I beg to differ

Imagine in ten years time looking back on Marriott, Paterson, and a defender with one leg who we've never seen

Jeffers, Potter, Purse 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

Have we signed poor players or taken decent players and diminished them? Again I’m not on the wind up but I don’t remember universal condemnation of the players we’ve signed at the time we signed them. I’ve been back over old posts. In fact most were cautiously optimistic. Perhaps we underestimated the likes of Fletcher, FF and Fix when they were here? 

 

 

 

When players sign there's always an excitement as it's a new face that brings hope with them through the door

 

 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

57 minutes ago, McRightSide said:

We have some decent players, mostly average ones and some they are well off the pace

 

Our squad has terrible balance to it. Monk was obviously working with sensible financial restrictions but to leave the squad in this state is pitiful. He picked a formation and recruited against it. No thought given to what else we might need.

 

Not sure if any other team in the league has zero.capable left backs.

 

Given the weakness of the squad I kind of feel like Pulis is probably the best kind of manager for us this season. 
 

Sadly today, I actually think we’d have got at least a point if we hadn’t been a man down for most of the game.

Thank you. Another vote for balance and structure. Very interesting because in the heat of the 90 minutes, we as fans don’t really consider this. 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, SallyCinnamon said:

It’s really not as black and white as this. You’re judging Marriott and Paterson playing in a squad short of confidence under a manager who had well and truly lost the plot.

 

Marriott and Paterson have both scored goals at this level. One has been promoted from this level as little as 2 years ago and the other fired his team to a play off final only to lose to Villa last year.

 

They’ve been proven themselves at this level so to just dismiss them as crap really isn’t fair and is very short sighted.

I wasn't referring to just them - I mean the whole entire squad

 

Right now we're in the middle of watching their era so as always won't be able to judge their place in history

My take on it -  even though I'm in the middle  of  it and they're current players - is that  this is the worst assembled Championship squad  we've  ever  assembled in our club's history

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

Thank you. Another vote for balance and structure. Very interesting because in the heat of the 90 minutes, we as fans don’t really consider this. 

 

 

Can I just thank you for hosting this thread?

It's a really refreshing change to have a calm measured thread with no conflict and much thought

Good work